iFi Audio iGalvanic3.0 - The Holy Grail of Computer Audio

[One and a half]

Today came the chance to test four interfaces from a computer to DAC.

 

Although the exercise would have been good for the heart, it's quite warm and listening tends to be a bit off, so instead of using the PC in the garage and traipsing upstairs for each change, a small Lenovo m93p was used within 12 inches of the DAC. Power was derived from a 120V supply, the rest of the system was 230V. There's a bit of distance between the two power systems, so any grunge form the PC on the AC side would be pretty minimal.

USB cables were Nordost Blue Heavan, SAEC SUS-480, player Jriver 23 64bit.

 

1. PC -> usb cable -> DAC

Tonally the music was OK, there was little height, well none really. No front to back at all and the image wasn't mono. It's possible to listen, but not long term.

 

2. PC -> usb cable (the blue one supplied with the ifi Galvanic3.0) -> ifi Galvanic3.0 -> DAC

The centre image was mushy, no height, tonally was about the same for item 1. Not much of a difference either. After about 30 minutes, I couldn't listen to complex passages (ELP Trilogy).

 

3. PC -> usb cable -> Wyred4Sound RUR (Powered by a 9V iPower) -> DAC

This solution provided a cleaner centre image, brought it into focus very nicely, stage height was good(ish), was quite pleasant to listen to. Still, I have heard height a lot more than this, about a foot above the speakers was the best outcome. Maybe a better power supply would have worked, difficult to say without trying it.

 

4. PC -> usb cable -> ifi micro USB3.0 (Powered by a 9V iPower) -> DAC

Bingo, the image just snapped into view, stage height was now about 2-3 feet above the speakers, depending on the recording. Hilary Gardner "Autumn in New York" sets her voice well above the speaker line, with placement of drums and piano just in the right mix. Spot on. Very pleased with this result.

 

I A/B the same music with DP-720 SACD/CD player, the player still wins over the computer.

 

For the last six months, I've been working with ifi for a solution to clicks produced by the ifi Galvanic3.0. It's quite possible it doesn't like the USB extender, or some vague behaviour of the Silanna chip, or the way the earth turns, who knows. In the above test, it was pointless to include the ifi Galvanic3.0 since it wasn't that much better than a plain wire. The switch was in the centre position the whole time. 

 

So I don't really know what to do, there may not be much of a choice but to return the ifi Galvanic3.0. 

[PPk]

Guess what.. I brought my igalvanic to friends place.. And to my dismay, the short usb cable that came with it is of a poor audio quality. Get it changed and redo the test.. Even amazon basic USB 3 cable beat it by quite a mile.. 

[One and a half]

29 minutes ago, PPk said:

Guess what.. I brought my igalvanic to friends place.. And to my dismay, the short usb cable that came with it is of a poor audio quality. Get it changed and redo the test.. Even amazon basic USB 3 cable beat it by quite a mile.. 

@Ricka reported that he had a faulty cable as well, the symptoms were disconnects/reconnects and another cable cured that problem, but that characteristic didn't show itself today, but that happens I assure you. I have tried other USB 2 cables on the input, and the sound was rather flat, missing details. I'm not doubting your experience, it appears that the Galvanic 3.0 works well in very specific circumstances only.

[PPk]

It's the sound quality.. Use another USB cable and you will get much better sound.. 

[One and a half]

17 hours ago, PPk said:

It's the sound quality.. Use another USB cable and you will get much better sound.. 

Much better, eh. would you believe I 'ran out' of generic USB3 cables, not one in the house I could use. Off to the store to buy two $10 6', and an (unrelated) disagreement with the better half, starting to add up significantly.

 

The system was HP Envy Laptop USB3.0 out -> $10 USB3.0 cable -> IFI Galvanic 3.0 -> Nordost Blue Heaven 1m -> DAC. Player was JRiver Media Centre, using the main library.

 Played Autumn in New York from this album. The SQ in the centre was now in focus, a good start. Still very 'flat', and no stage real height, well maybe a little. It wasn't easy to pick out where the other instruments were, cause it all melded into one conglomeration.

 

This album from Hilary is her latest from October 2017 with Ehud Asherie, it's just the two of them, no 8' piano, but I could have listened on the bathroom radio, just no stage at all. That album btw, is 96/24, worth the download to test music and Hilary is very pleasant on the ear. I play this album quite a bit, and recommend to CA readers to download.

 

Next up was Billie Jean (Michael Jackson Thriller DSD Acoustic Sounds). This recording is a little bright, but has great depth and height, for a modern recording that's exceptional. Once again, not even close from what is experienced from this system.

 

Disconnected the Galvanic 3.0, and played the main system from the garage that's in my profile. Billie Jean had its depth and height again, and lo, all manner of fine detail was restored with the ifi Micro USB3.0. 'The Late Set' has real depth to it now, still could be better, but a 50% improvement over the ifi Galvanic 3.0. There's also a different mode for Jriver which is usually active on another machine, and tracks are played from the server in the garage through the USB on that computer. I would think the change in SQ would be very small percentage.

 

This begs the question, what other cable will give that same stage height? It would have to be an exceptional cable. The conclusion is, no new cable will be purchased. The ifi Galvanic 3.0 will be returned, since the device is not fit for purpose with a USB extender, but that's not made clear ... oh well. Or I keep it for another application where severe differences in grounds occur, but at the expense of SQ reduction, methinks aught.

 

Would heartily recommend the ifi Micro USB3.0 with perhaps a different 0V grounded PSU than the iPower to gain that extra. I do have the case of the Micro USB3.0 bonded with a 10AWG cable to the computer's frame, the USB shell is already earthed at the computer side.

 

[AMR/iFi audio]

@One and a half Thank you for your feedback. It seems that some things weren't meant to be. The most probable cause is too many isolation/earths or something along these lines and since we can't replicate your system, hence solve the lower than expected performance issue you've experienced,  we can only politely ask you to return the product for a refund.  

 

Cheers,

iFi Team

[One and a half]

10 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

@One and a half Thank you for your feedback. It seems that some things weren't meant to be. The most probable cause is too many isolation/earths or something along these lines and since we can't replicate your system, hence solve the lower than expected performance issue you've experienced,  we can only politely ask you to return the product for a refund.  

 

Cheers,

iFi Team

Sure, I'll contact the dealer in the early New Year.

[Jgwtriode]

Have submitted this question is Ifi support as well...but I will ask here 

also.  The JCAT USB will output up to 900ma with the LDO filters enabled. But it will not synch with the Galvanic 3.  If the filter is disabled I'm assuming more current is available.  With filter disabled it will synch.  I am using an Ifi Ipower to run the Jcat.  But there is the impression from galvanic specs it should need substantially less power than that to synch.  What gives?

[One and a half]

The JCAT's voltage with the filter on outputs lower than USB standard, so that's why the iGalvanic falls over.

[Marcin_gps]

On 12/21/2017 at 5:29 AM, One and a half said:

The JCAT's voltage with the filter on outputs lower than USB standard, so that's why the iGalvanic falls over.

 

Not true. The minimum current limit can be 850mA with the LDO on JCAT USB Card enabled. By spec for USB 2.0 the limit is 500mA. 

[One and a half]

39 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

 

Not true. The minimum current limit can be 850mA with the LDO on JCAT USB Card enabled. By spec for USB 2.0 the limit is 500mA. 

? Check the Voltage when the filter jumper is on,  current not mentioned . 

[Marcin_gps]

On 12/24/2017 at 4:29 PM, One and a half said:

? Check the Voltage when the filter jumper is on,  current not mentioned . 

 

With the LDO filter the voltage at the output is 4.5V which is compliant with USB 3.0 specification.

The USB 3.0 spec is attached. I highlighted the power requirements. 

 

Best regards,

Marcin

 

USB3.0-power.pdf

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

 

With the LDO filter the voltage at the output is 4.5V which is compliant with USB 3.0 specification.

The USB 3.0 spec is attached. I highlighted the power requirements. 

 

Best regards,

Marcin

 

USB3.0-power.pdf

Please discuss with AMR/ifi Audio directly, it's a quote taken directly from these pages, I'm just passing on the message.

[Franatic]

One and a half, for your problem with clicks and pops, try this:

https://www.amazon.com/iFi-Groundhog-Ground-Isolator-Systems/dp/B071FM3Q6N/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1514375597&sr=1-1&keywords=ifi+groundhog

I had those annoying clicks with the iGalvanic 3.0 ground switch in the middle(full isolation) position. Adding earth ground to my Audio PC usb connection corrected this.

You can also consider the mercury 3.0 cable which works very well with the iGalvanic.

https://www.amazon.com/Mercury3-0-Audiophile-Grade-Meter-Cable/dp/B076ML8B2G/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1514376036&sr=1-1&keywords=ifi+mercury+3.0

I found the iGalvanic paired very well with the W4S RUR in my system.

I don't see which DAC you are using. Clicks and pops can also be a DAC driver issue.

[One and a half]

30 minutes ago, Franatic said:

One and a half, for your problem with clicks and pops, try this:

https://www.amazon.com/iFi-Groundhog-Ground-Isolator-Systems/dp/B071FM3Q6N/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1514375597&sr=1-1&keywords=ifi+groundhog

I had those annoying clicks with the iGalvanic 3.0 ground switch in the middle(full isolation) position. Adding earth ground to my Audio PC usb connection corrected this.

You can also consider the mercury 3.0 cable which works very well with the iGalvanic.

https://www.amazon.com/Mercury3-0-Audiophile-Grade-Meter-Cable/dp/B076ML8B2G/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1514376036&sr=1-1&keywords=ifi+mercury+3.0

I found the iGalvanic paired very well with the W4S RUR in my system.

I don't see which DAC you are using. Clicks and pops can also be a DAC driver issue.

Thanks @Franaticfor the suggestions. 

The chain of PC -> MicroUSB3.0 -> ifi Galvanic was such that the frame of the MicroUSB3.0 was earthed to the chassis of the PC, a short length of 10AWG (~<75mm). Normally there's about 40 Ohms between the frame of the MicroUSB3.0 and the 0V connector. By earthing the frame, it bonds the USB3.0 shell and the 0V together.

The ifi Galvanic's shell on the input USB cable grounds the frame of the Galvanic 3.0, but the output of the Galvanic 3.0 floats above the frame. The unit's switch was always in the centre position. 

 

I've never heard clicks relating to the DAC's ASIO driver, apart from those generated by players, such as Audirvana +, some time ago now, well before galvanic isolation was possible for USB2.0 devices. Moving the Galvanic 3.0 closer to the DAC resolved the click issue, with a computer near the audio rack which I don't recommend with such a noisy contraption so close to a DAC. Another problem of delivering USB3.0 bus power for the Galvanic 3.0 and maintain USB Audio Class 2 transmission over 25m is a challenge that's not trivial to solve. Icron can supply a USB3.0 extender, but it is not backward compatible with USB2.0 480Mbs transmissions

 

The DAC type is listed in my profile here at CA.

[Marcin_gps]

On 27.12.2017 at 11:21 AM, Marcin_gps said:

 

With the LDO filter the voltage at the output is 4.5V which is compliant with USB 3.0 specification.

The USB 3.0 spec is attached. I highlighted the power requirements. 

 

Best regards,

Marcin

 

USB3.0-power.pdf

 

Correction: 

For JCAT & iG3.0, the relevant section of the USB 3.0 specification is the first bullet point under section 11.4.2:

 

• "The nominal 5 V ± 5% source (host or hub) is 4.75 V to 5.25 V."

 

The iG 3.0 itself, without attached device should be visible even at 4.5V, however downstream devices may not. If anyone uses JCAT USB Card with the iGalvanic 3.0 it's best to disable LDO filtering on the JCAT card. 

 

Best regards, 

Marcin

[simonklp]

35 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

…

The iG 3.0 itself, without attached device should be visible even at 4.5V, however downstream devices may not. If anyone uses JCAT USB Card with the iGalvanic 3.0 it's best to disable LDO filtering on the JCAT card. 

 

Best regards, 

Marcin

 

I had found out this point several months ago. For details, you may refer to the below two links:

 

 

[thuandb]

On 12/20/2017 at 4:20 PM, Jgwtriode said:

Have submitted this question is Ifi support as well...but I will ask here 

also.  The JCAT USB will output up to 900ma with the LDO filters enabled. But it will not synch with the Galvanic 3.  If the filter is disabled I'm assuming more current is available.  With filter disabled it will synch.  I am using an Ifi Ipower to run the Jcat.  But there is the impression from galvanic specs it should need substantially less power than that to synch.  What gives?

Hi Jgwtriode,

 

FYI, I've found myself able to sync the iGalvanic 3.0 with JCAT USB Femto while LDO filters enabled.  There's a Nano iUSB3 between JCAT USB and iGalvanic 3.0, and an iPower 5v powers the JCAT USB.

[Jgwtriode]

J

6 hours ago, thuandb said:

Hi Jgwtriode,

 

FYI, I've found myself able to sync the iGalvanic 3.0 with JCAT USB Femto while LDO filters enabled.  There's a Nano iUSB3 between JCAT USB and iGalvanic 3.0, and an iPower 5v powers the JCAT USB.

No

 

6 hours ago, thuandb said:

Hi Jgwtriode,

 

FYI, I've found myself able to sync the iGalvanic 3.0 with JCAT USB Femto while LDO filters enabled.  There's a Nano iUSB3 between JCAT USB and iGalvanic 3.0, and an iPower 5v powers the JCAT USB.

NoRun a W4S recovery reclocker after my galvanic.  The W4S is powered by a K&K audio kit linear power supply.  9V@2A.

 

Will try again but couldn't get it to work previously!

 

Thanks

 

James

[Jgwtriode]

Wow saw that you ran a device before the Galvanic.  That is not the normal order it would seem. It seems most people run the reclocker after the isolator.  So I switched it Jcat femto>W4S recovery>galvanic .  Sounds better that way.  Cleaner smoother with a bit more weight and dynamics.  Then enabled LDO filter.  Wow just as good maybe better with more detail retrieval and an even lower noise floor. Amazing

Going to have to tell Marcin!

 

 

.

[AMR/iFi audio]

8 hours ago, Jgwtriode said:

Wow saw that you ran a device before the Galvanic.  That is not the normal order it would seem. It seems most people run the reclocker after the isolator.  So I switched it Jcat femto>W4S recovery>galvanic .  Sounds better that way.  Cleaner smoother with a bit more weight and dynamics.  Then enabled LDO filter.  Wow just as good maybe better with more detail retrieval and an even lower noise floor. Amazing

Going to have to tell Marcin!

 

 

.

 

We're happy it worked for you 

[PPk]

anyone spotted any web review/comparison of ifi mercury 3.0? 

[PPk]

did an audition of ifi mercury 3.0 with usb2 connector, against curious and uspcb.... like what thuandb mention earlier...mercury takes the crown..

 

between uspcb and curious there isn't any clear winner.. give and take.. but mecury win them hands down.. 

[thuandb]

???

[agladstone]

9 hours ago, PPk said:

did an audition of ifi mercury 3.0 with usb2 connector, against curious and uspcb.... like what thuandb mention earlier...mercury takes the crown..

 

between uspcb and curious there isn't any clear winner.. give and take.. but mecury win them hands down.. 

I have been trying to inquire if anyone has tried the new Gemni 3.0 Split Y USB Cable ? 

I have an IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 and I have been tempted to try the new Gemni 3.0 split USB cable. It seems like some positive feedback here on the new Mercury 3.0, I assume the two cables share similar materials and sound ? 

I would need the USB 2.0 connector version for my DAC. Also now curious also as to whether a Mercury USB 3.0 with the USB B 3.0 connector going into the Micro iUSB 3.0 would further enhance things since that would allow usb 3.0 into the Micro ?? As of now I’m using Cardas Highspeed USB 2.0 cables and also an Uptone USPCB connector. I have tried the Pangea Premier Y split USB cable and it was not too bad, especially for the price, but the Cardas HigSpeed USB 2.0 cable sounded much better so I returned the Pangea. 

Any thoughts or anyone who has tried the new Gemni and can comment on its performance would be helpful! 

Thanks!