The true experimental tweak thread

[tapatrick]

2 hours ago, Forehaven said:

Because I already have it lol

No harm in trying but agree with Cornan - happy spot is getting a decent  R-Core for instance a Meiyan or Teradak psu and adding LT3045 boards for ultra low noise DC power.

[tapatrick]

4 hours ago, Forehaven said:

Oh shit, i already ordered two more 5's and one more 6.  I may now have to sell two 5v boards.  I jumped the gun thinking I knew what I was doing...lol

Oops, well paralleling is stil an option but I'm not familiar with doing it that way... @sandyk mentioned

"..when you parallel voltage regulators, you need to precisely adjust their output voltages to the same value before connecting them in parallel, in order to ensure proper current sharing. One way to do this is to use a low value series resistor at the output of each, and a bypass electrolytic capacitor at their parallel output." Best to check with him on this..

 

  

[Forehaven]

I'll just do as you guys are doing and use a serial connection. So is this correct:  for say this 12vdc ps, I'd get say a 15v to 12v, or even 15v to 13.5 to 12?  As long as it's 260mvdc step up per regulator right?

 

And as such, I could use a 6v to 5vdc in series for say my SU1 at 5v?  But for Isoreg I'll need something like 8.5 to 6?

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, Cornan said:

I have decided to give the LT3045's in series a try. Hopefully tomorrow. One pair at the IR end and one pair at the AQVOX end. I'll have to remove the IR power injection for this trial. Hopefully it will still improve things. Right now I have power injection and GI off, but with the LT3045's I will try without power injection and GI on/off. Let's see where it ends up with the LT3045 in series. All bets are off! ?

 

 Even the lowly LM317T 1.5A adjustable voltage regulator benefits from Pre- Regulation.

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Looking forward to hearing your impressions Micael! 

 

Thanks Patrick! ? I will post about it when I have tried. I just had a quick look at them today. The terminal blocks and jumpers was very nicely soldered to the LT3045's by Alexey. I am glad I asked him to do it for me. My efforts would'nt be that great. 

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, Forehaven said:

And as such, I could use a 6v to 5vdc in series for say my SU1 at 5v?  But for Isoreg I'll need something like 8.5 to 6?

 

With my ISO Regen I will set my power supply to 9v and use two LT3045's in series with step-down 8v>7v. With my Aqvox switch I will have the power supply set to 7v and with series step-down 6v>5v.

[tapatrick]

3 hours ago, Forehaven said:

I'll just do as you guys are doing and use a serial connection. So is this correct:  for say this 12vdc ps, I'd get say a 15v to 12v, or even 15v to 13.5 to 12?  As long as it's 260mvdc step up per regulator right?

 

And as such, I could use a 6v to 5vdc in series for say my SU1 at 5v?  But for Isoreg I'll need something like 8.5 to 6?

If 15v is original output of PSU into 13.5 Reg then to 12v Reg into your device, this should be great. Iso regen seems to run on anything from 7.5v to 5v input. Yes 260mv is absolute minimum drop down for boards to work effectively. Just to repeat make sure you have enough current, the boards are either 500ma or 1amp versions.

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 Even the lowly LM317T 1.5A adjustable voltage regulator benefits from Pre- Regulation.

 

I'm quite sure the LT3045's in series will benefit. I just hope it will also minimize or cut the SMPS leakage and compensate for the removal of the USB power injection into ISO Regen. I am currently using a DC Y-split that supplies both AQVOX switch and ISO Regen USB power feed with 5v. I want to remove the power injection leg into ISO Regen so there will be no paths left for possible leakage loops. I just have four LT3045's to experiment with at this stage, so not possible to regulate the power injection as well at this stage if I do not regulatedr att the power supply end. I prefer to use the regulators close to the powered device.

[Speed Racer]

Put 4 in series! That should reduce noise by at least a factor of 2, right?

[Cornan]

15 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Iso regen seems to run on anything from 7.5v to 5v input

 

Not intirely. If powering Regen with 5v the USB power leg of the USB cable must be cut. With a DAC that requires 5v feed the minimum is 6v.

 

Sorry, I realized that I am talking about Regen Amber and you mentioned ISO Regen. ? Are you sure the ISO Regen can both be powered with 5v and supply 5v power feed at the same time? I have'nt tried it myself on my IR yet.

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

I'm quite sure the LT3045's in series will benefit. I just hope it will also minimize or cut the SMPS leakage and compensate for the removal of the USB power injection into ISO Regen. I am currently using a DC Y-split that supplies both AQVOX switch and ISO Regen USB power feed with 5v. I want to remove the power injection leg into ISO Regen so there will be no paths left for possible leakage loops.

 

 Basically, the Pre Regulator appears to take care of the majority of the noise and ripple, and the output stage has nothing much more to do than keep the DC  output voltage highly stable under varying load conditions.

 The other main benefit is that the heat dissipation of each section is markedly reduced, and thus they run much cooler. 

The best way to get rid of SMPS leakage is to start off with something like a 12V Li Ion battery of adequate  current capacity.

A 4,000mAH battery will give you several hours of continuous writing, and quite a bit longer with just reading.(playing music)

 I now have a 15,000mAh Li Ion battery for this purpose, regulated down to +9V , then via JLH Shunt Regulator to an Uptone Regen. You then shouldn't need the added complexity of the Iso Regen to obtain similar results ?  

Hopefully, the 1A LT3045s will do a similar job, but perhaps even better with a 12V battery input which will eliminate SMPS residual problems ? 

[sandyk]

10 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Put 4 in series! That should reduce noise by at least a factor of 2, right?

 

Cunny funt ! 

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, sandyk said:

 

 Basically, the Pre Regulator appears to take care of the majority of the noise and ripple, and the output stage has nothing much more to do than keep the DC  output voltage highly stable under varying load conditions.

 The other main benefit is that the heat dissipation of each section is markedly reduced, and thus they run much cooler. 

The best way to get rid of SMPS leakage is to start off with something like a 12V Li Ion battery of adequate  current capacity.

A 4,000mAH battery will give you several hours of continuous writing, and quite a bit longer with just reading.(playing music)

 I now have a 15,000mAh Li Ion battery for this purpose, regulated down to +9V , then via JLH Shunt Regulator to an Uptone Regen. You then shouldn't need the added complexity of the Iso Regen to obtain similar results ?  

Hopefully, the 1A LT3045s will do a similar job, but perhaps even better with a 12V battery input which will eliminate SMPS residual problems ? 

 

Thanks for your input Alex! I have already been exploring the battery land for years and thought for a long while that nothing could beat battery power. That all changed when I tried a floating SMPS into a isolation transformer with floating secondary. This was the first power supply solution that actually improved upon battery power in my setup. I have a lot of battery supplies ready to be used, but I'm not leaving my "dual floats" now when I finally have found something that is better in my setup.

[sandyk]

12 minutes ago, Cornan said:

Thanks for your input Alex! I have already been exploring the battery land for years and thought for a long while that nothing could beat battery power. That all changed when I tried a floating SMPS into a isolation transformer with floating secondary. This was the first power supply solution that actually improved upon battery power in my setup. I have a lot of battery supplies ready to be used, but I'm not leaving my "dual floats" now when I finally have found something that is better in my setup.

 

For the small inconvenience of recharging a battery, which would be minimised if you had 2 batteries available, you could have saved heaps of the hard earned stuff.

It's not the actual batteries that provide the magic, it's what you do with the output from them via a good voltage regulator, which the LT 3045s will do nicely. The voltage of batteries will drop quite a bit after a period of use, which is why you need to stabilise their output voltage. This will also help to ensure that the temperature of the gear being powered will remain more constant after the initial warm up period, as the heat dissipation of the internal voltage regulators etc. will be more constant.

This will most likely also help with Xtal Oscillator stability.

 

However, you now have all the gear needed to achieve what you are looking for, and need to get the most out of it.

 

[Solid-State]

9 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 Even the lowly LM317T 1.5A adjustable voltage regulator benefits from Pre- Regulation.

http://www.audiowind.com/pdf/A-230LM.pdf

like this one or

[sandyk]

Just now, TubeMan said:

http://www.audiowind.com/pdf/A-230LM.pdf

like this one or

Hi

This appears to be a simple LM317T type application. It doesn't have pre regulation.

Attached is a photo of a 4 output voltage regulator that a friend designed the PCB for, to my specifications.

 It has + and - adjustable outputs as well as an another separate 12V (etc.) output, or pre regulation for the +5V output.

 Heatsinks weren't fitted when the photo was taken.

Alex

 

 Regards

Alex

[Solid-State]

yes thas a very basic LM317 design,

but if a put one of these before a LT3045,
would they be any benefit

 

and as i only use DC input, (Battery) I dont need any rectifiers

[sandyk]

4 minutes ago, TubeMan said:

yes thas a very basic LM317 design,

but if a put one of these before a LT3045,
would they be any benefit

 

and as i only use DC input, (Battery) I dont need any rectifiers

 

 What is the voltage of the battery that you intend using,  what is the output voltage from the LT3045, and how much current will the LT3045 need to supply   ?

 Personally, I think that if the LM317T is adjusted to give at least 1 volt more into the LT3045 than the required output voltage it should work almost as well, as after all, the extremely low noise output of a  single LT3045 is possibly a little bit of overkill for most applications. If nothing else, the LT3045 will be markedly cooler.

[Solid-State]

battery 8v

 

LM317 8-6v  LT3045 6-5v

 

load 5v 0,5Ah

[sandyk]

20 minutes ago, TubeMan said:

battery 8v

 

LM317 8-6v  LT3045 6-5v

 

load 5v 0,5Ah

 

With the LM317T at a load current of 0.5A, you are cutting the  input-output voltage differential required to maintain full regulation a bit too fine for my liking, ( typically just under 2V at 0.5A) especially if the battery voltage drops below 8V during extended use.  

9V nominal would be more suitable with the LM317T in this instance.

[Solid-State]

ok 

 8-5,5 would be better,
as the LT3045 as a dropout of 0.3v

 

[sandyk]

34 minutes ago, TubeMan said:

ok 

 8-5,5 would be better,
as the LT3045 as a dropout of 0.3v

 

 

 That should do it. It is also highly likely that you will not be drawing a constant 0.5A current anyway.

[tapatrick]

9 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Not intirely. If powering Regen with 5v the USB power leg of the USB cable must be cut. With a DAC that requires 5v feed the minimum is 6v.

 

Sorry, I realized that I am talking about Regen Amber and you mentioned ISO Regen. ? Are you sure the ISO Regen can both be powered with 5v and supply 5v power feed at the same time? I have'nt tried it myself on my IR yet.

I've run my Iso Regen on 7.5v and 5v (through LT3045 boards) fed by 8v from Teradak PSU but I am using USB 5v power too. I tried adding clean USB power too a while back but it didn't work first try so I abandoned that route. To be honest I don't think this would make a difference as I have a good source from my Antipodes DXe and the way things are sounding now with 2 levels of isolation through the Iso Regen followed by the Bluewave I'm not so bothered to pursue that avenue.

 

I had another session listening late into the night, the sound with the Bluewave fed by LT3045s is spectacular to me. Voices have incredibly realistic nuances and inflections. Soundstage is deeper and wider, leaving the speakers and floating, details are multiplied, with increased air and transparency. Very pure sounding and sweeter... the realism is uncanny 

[tapatrick]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 What is the voltage of the battery that you intend using,  what is the output voltage from the LT3045, and how much current will the LT3045 need to supply   ?

 Personally, I think that if the LM317T is adjusted to give at least 1 volt more into the LT3045 than the required output voltage it should work almost as well, as after all, the extremely low noise output of a  single LT3045 is possibly a little bit of overkill for most applications. If nothing else, the LT3045 will be markedly cooler.

Appreciate your input Alex. I agree to keep the dropdown voltage close gives the best benefit by keeping  the regs cooler. The in series setup is even more overkill no doubt but the result is worth it for what seems (to my pocket) a very low cost

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, tapatrick said:

I've run my Iso Regen on 7.5v and 5v (through LT3045 boards) fed by 8v from Teradak PSU but I am using USB 5v power too. I tried adding clean USB power too a while back but it didn't work first try so I abandoned that route. To be honest I don't think this would make a difference as I have a good source from my Antipodes DXe and the way things are sounding now with 2 levels of isolation through the Iso Regen followed by the Bluewave I'm not so bothered to pursue that avenue.

 

I had another session listening late into the night, the sound with the Bluewave fed by LT3045s is spectacular to me. Voices have incredibly realistic nuances and inflections. Soundstage is deeper and wider, leaving the speakers and floating, details are multiplied, with increased air and transparency. Very pure sounding and sweeter... the realism is uncanny 

 

What I have noticed with the Regen Amber is that it can be satisfied for a long while with 5v feeding USB power into the DAC, but suddenly stop working, but works when I power it with 6v. I tried also tried powering my Regen Amber with 5v in my B setup providing USB power to the Gustard DAC. It did'nt work so I assume the Gustard pulls more amperage than Regen Amber can supply when powered with 5v. 

Anyway, I will try powering my ISO Regen in my A setup with 5v instead of 6v as it is right now. It will make it easier for me if it works. Thanks! ?

 

Awesome to hear that the BluWave sounds so great. I will use it in combination with my Regen Amber (with the BluWave connected to the Gustard DAC and USPCB between Regen Amber and BluWave). I will be interesting to see how that turns out.

I am very happy with the sound in my B setup already even though I am not using anything special in the USB path. Just a Vertere D-Fi Pulse v2 USB cable. The balanced IT with floating center tap and the Gopherts (with grounded DC negative outputs) really makes it shine without much help. ?