Group Test: USB gadgets (AQ Jitterbug, Uptone Regen, iFi iUSB3.0, iPurifier, iPurifier2, UPDATE on p.15…)

[Middy]

I think. Maybe a USB HUB as an uber silencer bank. But if it was a hub would the accumulated rfi benefit on a hub than the usb bus?

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[misterspense]

It might work but what a headache, it seems like a Lego building set. I am going with ifi's iTube2 via RCA connections and the Aftermaster Pro for HDMI connections and throwing in the towel on USB for good. There are prenty of video cards available with HDMI ports for the PC.

To me that Aftermaster pro sounds like a device that will dynamically compress the audio. Furthermoe, HDMI (and Toslink) are prone to high amounts of jitter. There is just not much tweak with. USB has a very high potential, but noisy power leaves a lot of room to tweak the sound quality.

 

Sent from my MI 2 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[witchdoctor]

To me that Aftermaster pro sounds like a device that will dynamically compress the audio. Furthermoe, HDMI (and Toslink) are prone to high amounts of jitter. There is just not much tweak with. USB has a very high potential, but noisy power leaves a lot of room to tweak the sound quality.

 

Sent from my MI 2 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Look at the guys that built it and tell me they can't tell the difference between compressed tacks or not. Did you listen to the A/B tracks on the home page? just scroll down.

[mordante]

That's IMO too simplified view. If you would measure coax SPDIF connection you would also find computer noise. Coax cables have similar influence to sound as SPDIF cables. Why? Because they also affect noise going through them.

 

I respect your preference of multibit DACs. But most DAC models are delta sigma and most users own delta sigma DACs. Many of us enjoy DSD recordings or PCM to DSD upsampling with HQPlayer. Only USB and IIS digital transports are capable of PCM > 192k and DSD > DSD64.

 

When I bought my Gustard DAC, I bought also Gustard U10 USB to SPDIF converter. I didn't try HQPlayer yet that time, I played from foobar2000. It was quandary for me what to prefer: Coax solution with U10 and playback restricted to 192k / DSD64 or pure USB solution without such restrictions and with possibility to upsample to DSD128. I found the 2nd possibility as slightly better sounding in foobar2000 and it didn't require the U10 digital converter in the chain. When I tried upsampling with HQPlayer, it brought me further improvement step. No way back to SPDIF. The subsequent USB tweaks brought me further improvement.

 

My opinion is: These small USB boxes and tweaks are not must, but may bring further improvement in comparison with SPDIF.

 

I know that there are good souding delta sigma DACs as well. But in the price range I shop 800-2000 euro I preferred my shiit box gungnir multibit. Best DAC I have ever heard is the EMM labs DAC, IMHO better than MSB or dDC. Again it is a matter of taste.

 

DSD is fine for others. I have no need for it nor will I ever need DSD. Not hating the format. But some want reel to reel others prefer CD. Just a matter of taste. Same goes for DSD vs PCM etc.

[witchdoctor]

To me that Aftermaster pro sounds like a device that will dynamically compress the audio. Furthermoe, HDMI (and Toslink) are prone to high amounts of jitter. There is just not much tweak with. USB has a very high potential, but noisy power leaves a lot of room to tweak the sound quality.

Sent from my MI 2 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Check this out, a radio station steaming with aftermasterpro. I think it sounds good! -

Hear The Difference On KQSW Streaming | Hot Country Q 96 | Southwest Wyoming’s Hottest Country | Rock Springs/Green River, WY

[DM]

The noise figure that ifi quote is just the power supply with typically nothing connected. Once a load is connected, it's a different story.

 

Just saw this thread, the iFI iPower being measured： 1uV@750mA

 

 

I think there is pretty damn good, I haven't seen any LPS come close to this kind of figure, did I miss something here?

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f30-abbingdon-music-research-ifi-audio-sponsored/measuring-ipower-much-ado-about-nothing-part-4-uploaded-and-complete-28982/

[Indydan]

Deleted

[Indydan]

Just saw this thread, the iFI iPower being measured： 1uV@750mA

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32872[/ATTACH]

 

I think there is pretty damn good, I haven't seen any LPS come close to this kind of figure, did I miss something here?

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f30-abbingdon-music-research-ifi-audio-sponsored/measuring-ipower-much-ado-about-nothing-part-4-uploaded-and-complete-28982/

 

Respectfully, put away the measurement charts once in a while. Try out the ifi iPower and a good LPS like the Uptone LPS-1 on the same device. Just listen without doing any measurements beforehand.

 

Measurements do not always tell you which device will SOUND best.

[misterspense]

Check this out, a radio station steaming with aftermasterpro. I think it sounds good! -

Hear The Difference On KQSW Streaming | Hot Country Q 96 | Southwest Wyoming’s Hottest Country | Rock Springs/Green River, WY

 

Still I don't think that a company that has the name "After master", and that implies that it will "remaster" your music, has the highest audio quality in mind. More maximum loudness. And I don't like the loudness war that is going on in the music industry. It's not possible to recover lost information for instance, making the audio quality 'better'. You can upsample, which is a different story, that can make it sound better in some cases, depending on the DAC. But just making all music, also very good mastered or audiophile music sound even better, sounds like snake oil, or just plain increasing loudness, to me.

From their website I found this, and it says enough:

[h=4]AfterMaster proprietary audio technology offers a significant increase in loudness, clarity, depth and fullness not available through traditional audio mastering and processing technologies.[/h]

[YashN]

Just saw this thread, the iFI iPower being measured： 1uV@750mA

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32872[/ATTACH]

 

I think there is pretty damn good, I haven't seen any LPS come close to this kind of figure, did I miss something here?

 

Yes, everything else that is also necessary to characterise a Power Supply as great.

[YashN]

Measurements do not always tell you which device will SOUND best.

They would if correlations are made properly, if the set of measured characteristics is known, and how to measure and where is known as well. But, our common means of measuring are imperfect.

 

It isn't that simple to measure gear properly and completely.

[kilroy]

Still I don't think that a company that has the name "After master", and that implies that it will "remaster" your music, has the highest audio quality in mind. More maximum loudness. And I don't like the loudness war that is going on in the music industry. It's not possible to recover lost information for instance, making the audio quality 'better'. You can upsample, which is a different story, that can make it sound better in some cases, depending on the DAC. But just making all music, also very good mastered or audiophile music sound even better, sounds like snake oil, or just plain increasing loudness, to me.

From their website I found this, and it says enough:

AfterMaster proprietary audio technology offers a significant increase in loudness, clarity, depth and fullness not available through traditional audio mastering and processing technologies.

 

 

Appears to be another AV toy. Not of interest if one has a better set-up.

[witchdoctor]

Still I don't think that a company that has the name "After master", and that implies that it will "remaster" your music, has the highest audio quality in mind. More maximum loudness. And I don't like the loudness war that is going on in the music industry. It's not possible to recover lost information for instance, making the audio quality 'better'. You can upsample, which is a different story, that can make it sound better in some cases, depending on the DAC. But just making all music, also very good mastered or audiophile music sound even better, sounds like snake oil, or just plain increasing loudness, to me.

From their website I found this, and it says enough:

AfterMaster proprietary audio technology offers a significant increase in loudness, clarity, depth and fullness not available through traditional audio mastering and processing technologies.

 

 

Well their site says a lot of things. To me it is worth an audition. I can't imagine a group of great engineers with a stable full of top artists and awards associating a brand that took years to build with a crappy product. Makes no sense. This isn't a mass electronic company. It is a boutique firm of award winning engineers. I think they want to build their brand rather than destroy it. Did you see all their 2017 Grammy nominations? I don't see any other boutique manufacturers with those credentials (JBL isn't a boutique firm ) For me it is less expensive than a good dac, is the only product I am aware of like it, and will work with HDMI unlike most DACS.

[witchdoctor]

They would if correlations are made properly, if the set of measured characteristics is known, and how to measure and where is known as well. But, our common means of measuring are imperfect.

It isn't that simple to measure gear properly and completely.

Define what are the proper correlations please?

[witchdoctor]

I have another USB work around. By using an ethernet connection with my NAS to the router I can use PLEX to stream via my Sony UHPH1 BRD player/dac or stream right to my Marantz 7702 processor. Screw USB:)

Plus save a lot of money on all these USB devices.

[Ncore1]

Respectfully, put away the measurement charts once in a while. Try out the ifi iPower and a good LPS like the Uptone LPS-1 on the same device. Just listen without doing any measurements beforehand.

 

Measurements do not always tell you which device will SOUND best.

 

As opposed to your biases telling you which one sounds best?

[Ncore1]

Just saw this thread, the iFI iPower being measured： 1uV@750mA

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32872[/ATTACH]

 

I think there is pretty damn good, I haven't seen any LPS come close to this kind of figure, did I miss something here?

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f30-abbingdon-music-research-ifi-audio-sponsored/measuring-ipower-much-ado-about-nothing-part-4-uploaded-and-complete-28982/

 

Well, only looking up to 6kHz........

[Indydan]

As opposed to your biases telling you which one sounds best?

 

True, but for myself, shouldn't my biases and preferences play a part in what I choose for myself? My answer to that is a resounding yes.

 

I could be offered two wines, and told the acidity levels of each, as well as other measurements. The only way to know which wine I will prefer, is to taste them.

 

Measurements are a useful tool, but they are not the only tool or even the best one to evaluate audio gear.

 

Here is an interesting article in Stereophile about the problem of putting too much faith in measurements. Two different speakers measured very similarly. But, they sounded very different despite near identical measurements:

 

A Tale of Two Speakers | Stereophile.com

 

 

"That two such well-engineered loudspeakers with broadly similar measurements can sound so different reinforces our long-term advice: While reviews are a useful guide to which products you might consider buying, an audition in your home with your system is still of primary importance.—John Atkinson"

[YashN]

Define what are the proper correlations please?

 

Generally: Characteristic of a circuit mapping to measurements mapping to listening impressions.

 

Thing is: some don't do that work, some don't know what to measure, some focus on a narrow set of measurements thinking they suffice to describe everything that needs to be described to characterise a circuit, e.g. people often focus on just the noise or PSRR figures to characterise a power supply, some can't be bothered to listen because they think they already know everything there is to know, etc.

 

Please use the QUOTE function properly for more readability on the forum, otherwise you're making a mess, thanks.

[Ncore1]

True, but for myself, shouldn't my biases and preferences play a part in what I choose for myself? My answer to that is a resounding yes.

 

I could be offered two wines, and told the acidity levels of each, as well as other measurements. The only way to know which wine I will prefer, is to taste them.

 

Measurements are a useful tool, but they are not the only tool or even the best one to evaluate audio gear.

 

Here is an interesting article in Stereophile about the problem of putting too much faith in measurements. Two different speakers measured very similarly. But, they sounded very different despite near identical measurements:

 

A Tale of Two Speakers | Stereophile.com

 

 

"That two such well-engineered loudspeakers with broadly similar measurements can sound so different reinforces our long-term advice: While reviews are a useful guide to which products you might consider buying, an audition in your home with your system is still of primary importance.—John Atkinson"

 

Ahhh, but when you are told up front that one wine is an expensive highly revered bottle and the othercis a no name cheapo how will that affect your judgement?

 

This thread is based on a commentary by the OP which includes both technical measurements and subjective observation. Its offered as information to the entire readership, in good faith no doubt, but I see problems with the way both are conducted. Its not about saying subjective observations are worthless per se, but they must be controlled to have value. Your personal preferences when driven and affected by bias are worthless to others.

 

The problem is if you spend money and add one of these devices and you compare with and without control you are predisposed to hear that they make a positive difference. You need to test without knowing if its in circuit.

 

Ok, so one technical aspect of a power supply is measured. Shouldc power supply be quiet or noisy? The answer is obvious, would you contradict that it should be quiet? However the next question should be how quiet does it need to be? The real area of interest is does it affect the dac output? So measure the power supply, thats fine its good information, but also measure the dac output and finally perform a controlled listening test.

 

Therecis nothing wrong with technical measurement, its simply objective information that xan be useful to build a picture.

 

 

Btw that article is absolute rubbish and doesnt demobstrate the point. Firstly the only measurements presented are not actually that similar. Secondly there are many other factors that need to be considered. The driver dispersion for starters will affect the in room sound.....and yes that can be measured.

 

Im sure JA would know this, so his article is a little disingenuous.

[witchdoctor]

Generally: Characteristic of a circuit mapping to measurements mapping to listening impressions.

Thing is: some don't do that work, some don't know what to measure, some focus on a narrow set of measurements thinking they suffice to describe everything that needs to be described to characterise a circuit, e.g. people often focus on just the noise or PSRR figures to characterise a power supply, some can't be bothered to listen because they think they already know everything there is to know, etc.

 

Please use the QUOTE function properly for more readability on the forum, otherwise you're making a mess, thanks.

 

Can you post an example of circuit measurements mapped properly to listening impressions?

[YashN]

Can you post an example of circuit measurements mapped properly to listening impressions?

I have some already, but they're for my system only.

 

Additionally, you're already missing at least a step of correlations in what you're asking.

[witchdoctor]

I have some already, but they're for my system only.Additionally, you're already missing at least a step of correlations in what you're asking.

 

Their is no such thing as the type of circuit mapping you claim. Please post a link to a white paper if I am wrong.

[No Disc]

Here is another review of the Ifi in comparison to some of the others in the category. Might be of interest to someone.

 

https://audiobacon.net/2016/12/01/ifi-nano-iusb3-0-review-vs-uptone-regen-wyred-4-sound-recovery-and-audioquest-jitterbug/

[oneguy]

@DM, I'd be interested in getting my Light Harmonics 20G tested to see where it shakes out amongst the crowd. PM me if you think this is feasible and we can work out the logistics.

LightSpeed 20G Cable