A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[seeteeyou]

Thanks again Ray, I just found the discuss below

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/29650-dcs-network-bridge/?page=19&tab=comments#comment-765484

On 1/13/2018 at 9:30 AM, Beolab said:

Ordered some BNC 75 Ohm SDI 

12 Ghz made for 4K UHD pro broadcasting Canare cables just for fun, that i can highly recommend and they had greater precision than my BNC Nordos Valhallas, they did not got the same overall focus as the Canares. 

It may be because of the Canare 

Professional cable is made for this kind of word.clock frequencies more than the Valhallas is my conclution. 

 

Here is the special Canare 12 Ghz beryllium copper plug:

 

http://canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=246

 

And here is the cable: 

 

http://canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=247

 

Here you can buy it assembled: 

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1338227-REG/canare_cal55cuhd006_12g_sdi_4k_uhd_single_channel_bnc_cable.html

 

[seeteeyou]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

I have it on my list to try other cables. Based on the incredibly helpful links posted by @seeteeyou, it looks like the choices for 50 Ω are quite limited. I would love to know what to try.

 

Thanks @austinpop.

 

I really dunno very much about 50 Ω cables at the moment, maybe here's a little rundown of what I've been learning so far.

 

First of all, it's just easier to break everything down into two categories, obviously there's one for the audiophile market and then another for the pro market.

 

Regarding the audiophile market, most likely we could only find a dozen choices or so. The price range would go anywhere from mere-mortal-level to @romaz-level ($6.5K) as shown below

 

http://rubi2947.blog.jp/archives/7363072.html

http://www.ojispecial.jp/products/8128xbnc.html

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/miyajimusic/ka-r-062017-wa01/

http://briseaudio.jp/store/product/bnc/bnc50_osa01.html

http://briseaudio.jp/store/product/bnc/bnc50_shin01.html

http://briseaudio.jp/store/product/bnc/bnc50_masa01.html

http://briseaudio.jp/store/product/bnc/bnc50_mura01.html

https://www.thecableco.com/venom-s-pdif-5301.html

https://www.thecableco.com/sigma-clock-50.html

http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show?21744272134793

https://almaaudio.com/collections/evolution-acoustics/products/evolution-acoustics-bnc-link-cables

 

Unlike 75 Ω coaxial cables. they weren't making 50 Ω ones for 4K UHD resolutions (i.e. 11.88 Gbps or 12 GHz) and therefore we could only pick something that's thick enough to achieve "exceptional" nominal attenuation.

 

Now let's take a quick look at the comparison between 75 Ω ones and 50 Ω ones (pick either link below and it's quicker to load the 1st one)

 

http://www.canare.co.jp/en/24A/Canare24A_Cables.pdf#page=20

http://www.canare.co.jp/cat/cont/canare_eng/canare_eng.pdf#page=69

 

Focus on 10 MHz for now and we'll see the differences. Obviously L-8CHD should be the winner (1.2 dB/100m) due to its "insane" thickness @ 11.1 mm OD while L-5DFB was simply gathering dust @ 2.5 dB/100m just because Canare never made any kinda "nutty" 50 Ω cables.

 

http://www.canare.co.jp/en/24A/Canare24A_Cables.pdf#page=18

http://www.canare.co.jp/cat/cont/canare_eng/canare_eng.pdf#page=67

 

Of course we could still look somewhere else and it's fairly easy to find 50 Ω Fujikura 8D-FB @ 11.1 mm OD

 

http://www.aru-densen.jp/html/page8.html

http://www.fujimusen.com/coaxial/index.html

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/musenkiya/8dfb10m/

https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110500112930/?HissuCode=8D-FB-10

http://www.caledonian-cables.co.uk/Coaxia_Cable/50Ohm RF/8D-FB.html

http://www.caledonian-cables.com/product/Coaxial Cables/50Ohm RF Coaxial Cables/8D-FB.htm

 

Here are some 50 Ω BNC plugs that will be good for 8D-FB

 

To-Conne BNCP-8

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/tiyotoku/bncp-8/

http://www.to-conne.co.jp/connector/c_products/bnc/plugs/

http://www.to-conne.co.jp/connector/c_products/bnc/plugs/BNCP-8.pdf

 

Almic BNC-P-8D

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/auc-treevillage/bnc-p-8d/

http://www.almic.net/product/download/BNC_catalog.pdf

 

Amphenol RF 6775

https://www.amphenolrf.com/000-6775.html

https://octopart.com/000-6775-75-amphenol+rf-49742146

https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data Sheets/Amphenol PDFs/BNC_Catalog.pdf#page=5

 

If we weren't big fans of Fujikura, there's also Belden 9913 in addition to 7810A as I mentioned below

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31857-mutec-ref-10-masterclock/?page=24&tab=comments#comment-773291

 

Of course we could also go totally crazy with 12D-FB @ 15.6 mm OD but so far I haven't seen any kinda 50 Ω BNC plugs that could accommodate coaxial cables with that kinda thickness

 

http://www.caledonian-cables.co.uk/Coaxia_Cable/50Ohm RF/12D-FB.html

http://www.caledonian-cables.com/product/Coaxial Cables/50Ohm RF Coaxial Cables/12D-FB.htm

 

Finally we've gotta thank @d_elm for pointing out that Pasternack also made some 50 Ω cables with impressive numbers that looked good (at least?) on paper

 

https://www.pasternack.com/semirigid-0.250-50-ohm-coax-cable-tinned-aluminum-pe-sr401al-p.aspx

https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/PE-SR401AL.pdf#page=2

 

It really does cost quite a bit @ $21.16 per foot but fortunately clock cables should be kept as short as we could manage to, and then its 6.35 mm OD should be an advantage as well.

 

BTW, they also have something thicker and even more expensive as follows

 

10.92 mm OD @ $31.94 per foot
https://www.pasternack.com/flexible-0.430-rg225-50-ohm-coax-cable-ptfe-fr-jacket-rg225-u-p.aspx

https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/RG225-U.pdf

 

10.16 mm OD @ $39.81 per foot
https://www.pasternack.com/semirigid-0.118-50-ohm-coax-cable-copper-pe-118sr-p.aspx

https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/PE-118SR.pdf#page=2

[seeteeyou]

FYI - an owner of Paul Hynes SR7EHD got 6 pieces of LT3045 recently and they're powering Micro ATX motherboard (Gigabyte H97M-D3H) successfully

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/310402-fs-ultra-low-noise-power-supply-lt3045-based-pcb-3.html#post5324398

Quote

 

It has provided a great step up in the sound, better bass attack cleaner transients.

 

Got the boards built with both channels combined to power the Motherboard RAM at 1.3 volts.

 

 

Here are some links to other forums with instructions for modifying the power source of RAM (both DIMM and SO-DIMM) slots

 

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3267

http://www.aktives-hoeren.de/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=6015

[seeteeyou]

Not that many 50Ω coaxial cables are good for tiny little SMB female connectors, this particular one looked somewhat interesting but the others from Digi-Key or Pasternack seemed to be quite similar

 

https://www.txmstore.com/rg316-u-50-ohm-rf-coax-custom-cable-assemblies/

https://www.txmstore.com/rg316-u-50-ohm-rf-coax-cable-bulk-by-the-foot/

 

There's also something else that might be somewhat "audiophile" from Van den Hul (€21 per meter) and the model is D-610

 

http://www.hifishuo.com/view_pdc.php?id=19155

http://www.bthifi.com/vdh/vdh-kabel/pro-serie.html

http://www.vandenhul.com/download/CAwdEAwUUkNLXEU=

https://www.exclusiveaudio.gr/van-den-hull/cables-interconnect-coaxial

https://www.justdial.com/VDH-D-610-Halogen-Free-Cable/pid-11913010

Quote

The D - 610 is a special product in our program mainly intended for industrial purposes. The design aim was to have a slim 50 Ohm impedance coaxial cable with superior transmission properties and a high durability. The D - 610 can be used as an internal coaxial connection in typical HF applications and other situations with a very limited space like e.g. in mixing consoles.

 

The D - 610’s PTFE insulated centre conductor consists of 7 x 0.09 mm. strands of Matched Crystal OFC with a dense silver coating and exhibits a total diameter of 0.30 mm.

• The resistance of the centre wire is 38.7 Ohm/100 meter.
• The shielding is made of 80 x 90 micron strands. Its resistance is 3.4 Ohm/100 meter.
• The light brown transparent external insulation is made of FPE.
• The external cable diameter is 2.6 mm.
• The characteristic impedance is 50 Ohm.

 

[seeteeyou]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

My experience with the SOtM trifecta, the master clock, and now the Zenith SE has shown me not only how much better the downstream part of my chain sounds with improvements in the digital source, but also that as I improve the downstream components, they really shine and benefit from the improvement at the source.

 

• £ 7,995 Chord Blu Mk. 2 + Mac Mini
• £ 4,999 Innuos ZENith SE Mk.II Std + $1,200 SOtM tX-USBultra + $3,595 Mutec REF 10 + €700 Habst BNC cable

 

Now I'm wondering if @romaz were still in favor of the first combo or not?

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=148&tab=comments#comment-723032

On 9/25/2017 at 5:16 PM, romaz said:

Practically speaking, this results in a massive improvement in DAVE's resolution, so massive that the collective impact of my server mods which includes 8 clocks being replaced pales in comparison to what Blu Mk2 provides.  For those of you who own a Chord DAVE, I would suggest you prioritize getting a Blu Mk2 beyond anything else discussed on this thread.  Combined with Chord's upcoming "digital" amplifiers, there will be no more resolute or transparent way of listening to a digital file.  Despite all of this, I am finding, however, that the quality of the music server still matters.

 

Now we could even connect Blu Mk. 2 to £1195 Chord Quetest.

[seeteeyou]

It's kinda similar for we headphone lovers. Right now we could get both Stax SR-009 and SRM-T8000 for roughly $7,500 (after 10% off for all Rakuten purchases) plus international shipping

 

https://product.rakuten.co.jp/product/-/e48138b80149e5447a6daf822388ffeb/

https://product.rakuten.co.jp/product/-/1db223a786c8875c771a1545946371d2/

 

It's gotta be a hella tough combo to beat since the vast majority of dynamic / planar magnetic headphones simply can't even hold a candle to ToTL electrostatic rigs. It's somewhat difficult to figure out how to spend the same kinda money on source components in order to achieve the same kinda difference in the SQ department IMHO.

[seeteeyou]

37 minutes ago, RickyV said:

What is he powering with the 6xlt3045 supply? I think he is powering his ram only with the supply.

what is the peak current that a 6xlt3045 can deliver. 5A?

Would a 3 times (6xlt3045 supply) for 3.3v 5v 12v, be sufficient to power a TDP 20w board????? Or that interesting super micro mobo.

 

FYI - I uploaded those pictures on Imgur since Photobucket didn't really seem to treat non-paying users very well

 

https://imgur.com/a/W6bGh

 

Yes, only powering 16GB of RAM with 6 pieces of LT3045. It's only 0.5A continuously from each LT3045 so that's gotta be 3A for 1.3V. Perfect fit according to what he said before

 

Quote

Startup amps for RAM are at 2.9 amps and quickly settles at 2.7 amps.

 

He also talked about Audiowind A-210 regulator so he might be having one regulator after another.

 

And then he's running both CPU and RAM @ 800MHz (as shown in his signature) so maybe the current draw of i7 4770S might not be THAT high?

 

Quote

H97M-D3H/i7@800cpu/800ram

 

Regarding Supermicro X10SBA, someone did mention the power consumption here

 

https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/47778/

 

In addition, please take a look at the "Supermicro X10SBA III （2014.1.30）" section as linked below

 

http://www.geocities.jp/hangaya_craft/pcg3/arekore_test_g28.html

 

Maybe we could still get away with quite a few pieces of LT3045 boards to accommodate different voltage requirements, some of them could be 1A ones from Alexey with others might actually need 3A instead.

[seeteeyou]

36 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

While the endpoint is a great idea, you still need a host server. If you guys could make something simple to run Roon Core I'd be interested. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with that suggestion, especially Sonore already worked closely with SolidRun for their Sonicorbiter SE.

 

As @romaz mentioned recently, all we need is a great carrier board (for their SolidPC Q4) so that everything could be powered directly with dedicated power sources while the excellent LT3045 could be deployed strategically

 

I want to design my carrier board.

http://forum.solid-run.com/hardware-f39/i-want-to-design-my-carrier-board--t3262.html

https://www.solid-run.com/intel-braswell-family/solidpc-q4-carrier-board/

 

SolidPC Q4 Carrier Documentation & Block Diagram | SolidRun

https://wiki.solid-run.com/doku.php?id=products:ibx:documents

 

Tiniest Braswell COM ships, with 4K video, GbE, up to 8GB RAM

http://linuxgizmos.com/tiniest-braswell-module-delivers-the-goods-including-4k-video/

 

Braswell SOM – System On Module

https://www.solid-run.com/intel-braswell-family/braswell-som-system-on-module/

[seeteeyou]

$1,500? Supermicro SuperServer E200-8B seemed to be a good start because of its excellent motherboard X10SBA

 

https://www.supermicro.com/products/system/Mini-ITX/SYS-E200-8B.cfm

https://www.supermicro.com/manuals/superserver/mini-itx/MNL-1688.pdf

 

We could pay more to customize the options

 

https://www.abmx.com/supermicro-sys-e200-8b

https://www.thinkmate.com/system/superserver-e200-8b

https://www.sourcecode.com/system/superserver-e200-8b

http://www.acmemicro.com/Product/Customize/15504/Supermicro-E200-8B-Mini-iTX-Intel-Celeron-J1900-

 

It came with their own MCP-250-10117-0N power adapter so we could do a little bit better with 12V iFi Audio iPower

 

https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/

https://www.amazon.com/iFi-iPower-12V-Power-Supply/dp/B01LZD8SHJ

 

Or it's actually a good idea to get the barebone for less than 300 bucks

 

http://shop.ironnetworks.com/supermicro-superserver-sys-e200-8b

http://atacomipc.com/program/print_ipc_spec.cgi?Item_code=MIPC_SUPE_E2_26

https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-Barebone-Components-Other-SYS-E200-8B/dp/B00T4XV1Y8

http://www.wiredzone.com/supermicro-servers-compact-embedded-processor-sys-e200-8b-10023745

https://www.compsource.com/pn/SYSE2008B/Supermicro-428/Superserver-E2008b-black-Syse2008b/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SuperMicro-SYS-E200-8B-Mini-ITX-Server-with-X10SBA-Motherboard-/361650942796

 

Then we're left with approximately $1,200, both RAM and SSDs are very affordable these days.

[seeteeyou]

They also had a similar discussion here

 

https://superuser.com/questions/722128/can-a-motherboard-work-when-only-supplied-with-atx12v

 

Basically they could get away with only 12V via 4-pin connector simply because of the Mini ITX form factor. In other words, we couldn't have done that if we're talking about an ATX motherboard.

 

Furthermore, Supermicro also used the word or as follows

 

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/celeron/x10/x10sba-l.cfm

Quote

10. 12V DC or ATX power source

 

Finally @jean-michel6 already proved that's accomplished with a single 12V iFi Audio iPower feeding that 4-pin connector ONLY

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=244&tab=comments#comment-774699

13 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

I do have a dual pc set up with x10 sba board. 

I am using only the 12v connector to power them. 

All the accessories have their own dedicated psu. 

I have been able to power the board with simple 12v 1.8A IFI power psu. 

The results are already very good. 

You want really to avoid the pico psi which is so noisy. 

I used to have a gigabyte set up with 4 battery psu 2 for the CPU and 2 for the pico psu. 

Results were far away for the X10 sba. 

I will later power them with sotm sps 500

 

[seeteeyou]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Thanks for clarifying the nature of the improvement.  I'm curious about what technology difference between the motherboards might account for the improvement.

 

Innuos just went all out to buy whole bunch of motherboards, and then tested everything one by one afterwards

 

http://hifipig.com/innuos-zenith-mk2/

Quote

“We had to go through a very detailed oscilloscope for measurements. We have literally tested dozens of system boards and the noise patterns you get vary wildly between them. Some are absolutely dreadful and should never be used for audio.

 

As usual the noise should be the difference that makes the difference, though they're spending quite a bit of money on that experiment since it's more like trial and error until the discovery of the champion Supermicro X10SBA-L.

 

Antipodes Audio took a very different route, they just went ahead to pay Asus (an undisclosed amount of money) for designing a motherboard that's gonna meet their expectations.

[seeteeyou]

3 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

After reading the manual it’s clear that you can use a single 12 volt power supply via the 4 pin connector to power the board. Your missing the point though. The 4 pin connector and the ATX connector feed the same circuits and there is probably a common ground.

 

Probably? Would you please kindly point us to where Supermicro stated that?

[seeteeyou]

33 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Does anyone know of any other high current 12 volt LPSes worth considering?

 

Sean Jacobs made one that's up to 5A

 

http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/dc3-power-supply

[seeteeyou]

FYI - here's the cable for powering Supermicro X10SBA-L with 12V iFi Audio iPower

 

http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/1939

http://www.mini-box.com/P4-DC-Jack-Cable

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=41922302177

 

 

[seeteeyou]

31 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

I wonder how this is different from powering the board with the 12v 2.1x5.5 input it already is supplied with.

 

I found a picture of some cables that should be bundled with their E200-8B

 

https://www.supermicro.com/products/system/mini-itx/SYS-E200-8B.cfm

 

 

Obviously we couldn't see any 4-pin CPU power connectors at all, that means even that DC barrel should be wired to specific pins of that 24-pin ATX connector.

 

Basically the "holy grail" for powering Supermicro X10SBA-L would require two different sources of power, one for 24-pin ATX connector and then another for 4-pin CPU power connector respectively. That's pretty much what Innuos and Sean Jacobs decided to do for ZENith SE Mk.II when they're designing that Triple-Linear Power Supply.

[seeteeyou]

21 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

Also from other forums , I read several time that Intel and Supermicro boards designed mainly for professional world usually have better sq , may be better components ?

 

 

They're also making many server boards for Xeon processors, this particular Micro ATX motherboard caught my attention because all 48 PCI Express lanes are fully utilized

 

https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C420/X11SRM-VF.cfm

https://www.supermicro.com/manuals/motherboard/C420/MNL-1967.pdf#page=18

 

The cheapest Xeon W-2123 would cost 300 bucks or so

 

https://ark.intel.com/products/125036/Intel-Xeon-W-2123-Processor-8_25M-Cache-3_60-GHz

 

Of course we've gotta use ThrottleStop to lower speed / voltage etc. because of its 120W TDP

 

https://beebom.com/how-use-throttlestop-control-cpu/

https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/

https://www.notebookcheck.net/How-to-Lower-Temperatures-Stop-Throttling-and-Increase-Battery-Life-The-ThrottleStop-Guide-2017.213140.0.html

 

---

 

What is OCuLink?

http://blog.fosketts.net/2017/06/22/what-is-oculink/

 

OCuLink (just ignore their typo) also seemed to be mighty interesting to me since they're directly connected to the CPU. That means we should be able to get one of these cables from Supermicro

 

http://store.supermicro.com/55cm-oculink-sff-8639-u2-cbl-sast-0956.html

http://store.supermicro.com/75cm-oculink-sff-8639-cbl-sast-1011.html

 

Then convert each OCuLink into PCI Express x4 slot that's far away from the motherboard

 

http://www.microsatacables.com/u2-sff8639-to-pcie-4-lane-adapter-sff-993-u2-4l

 

 

Granted they're meant for those storage devices such as PCI Express SSDs in the AIC (Add-in Card) form factor, though stuff like JCAT NET Card FEMTO, SOtM tX-USBexp, or professional sound cards (e.g. Lynx Studio and RME etc.) might also work.

 

If that were no go, maybe we could also take a look at another choice that's going from OCuLink to SFF-8643

 

http://www.cs-electronics.com/product/12g-internal-hd-mini-sas-sff-8643-oculink/

http://www.microsatacables.com/mini-sas-hd-sff-8643-to-pci-e-4-lanes-slot-adapter

 

If either combo were working, then we should be able to save ourselves from these troubles that might happen in some cases

 

PCIe Extension Ribbon Side-Effects
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1779164/pcie-extension-ribbon-side-effects.html

 

Riser cable for SOtM - defect :-(
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31499-riser-cable-for-sotm-defect/

 

Question: USB card installations and risers, ribbons etc

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31662-question-usb-card-installations-and-risers-ribbons-etc/

[seeteeyou]

9 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Adnaco supports fiber connected remote Pcie slots with independent power. It is tempting to try this with a good USB card.

 

That's fine for non-audio purposes but even sCLK-EX couldn't "undo" the damage according to @romaz

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=154&tab=comments#comment-725093

On 10/3/2017 at 6:28 AM, romaz said:

Yes, you're correct. Lee does not like optical solutions due to high jitter.  As it was Lee that personally modified the Adnaco I sent him, he got a chance to listen to it and even with its 3 clocks replaced, he told me he thought it was a step back because It was sounding flat.

 

BTW, Supermicro also made a few ATX motherboards with two M.2 slots that are connected to Xeon processors directly

 

https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C420/X11SRA-RF.cfm

 

Even 280GB Optane 900P might be a viable choice now since we're talking about roughly $1.33 per GB at the moment

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167438

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167439

 

2.5" ones require 12V DC and the Active Write should consume 13W, maybe we could get away with 1.1A provided by 12V LPS-1.2 but I guess that could a stretch?

 

https://ark.intel.com/products/123623/Intel-Optane-SSD-900P-Series-280GB-2_5in-PCIe-x4-20nm-3D-XPoint

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/optane-ssd-900p-brief.pdf

 

Hopefully some of us could give that a try and report back afterwards

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/34613-optane-ssd-as-boot-drive-sq-nirvana/

[seeteeyou]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

I am not so sure if this is totally true. Over at Jplay, most has been using a dual jplay setup for a while (long before microRendu or the likes came out) - the control PC, which is equivalent to the music server, is also very important in contributing to the SQ as is the audio PC, which is equivalent of a streamer, like mR. If you have to optimize one, the one closer to the DAC must be done first but a noisy music server can also pollute the SQ. Thoughts ?

 

At least in this particular case, even dCS Network Bridge ($4,250 Network Player / Roon Endpoint) could reap the benefit when @romaz was bridging that to a fantabulous music server

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box.787020/page-70#post-13804310

Quote

I decided to experiment some more. Since the Zenith SE has an "Ethernet out" port designed specifically for direct connection to a streamer, I decided to connect the dCS NB to this port. I suspect this is essentially a bridged LAN port (the first I have seen thus far in a mass produced Linux-based server) and sure enough, SQ from the dCS NB improved with regards to better clarity as if a thin veil had been removed. I decided to bridge the LAN ports on my custom server and connected the dCS NB to my custom server this way and this same SQ improvement was evident. Configured this way, the gap between the dCS and the Zenith SE has narrowed but given the choice, I think I would still go with the Zenith SE.

 

[seeteeyou]

It's quite interesting to see the latest SACD/CD players from Esoteric, about $16K for K-01Xs and almost $10K for K-03Xs respectively

 

http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/k01xs/index.html

http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/k03xs/index.html

 

Actually they got my attention because both of them have 10MHz 50Ω master clock inputs in addition to 768KHz USB inputs. In other words, they're gonna be able to accept the USB output of a standalone M-Scaler from Chord in the future while having an input for a master clock by default. No need to void the warranty because of adding sCLK-EX.

 

Anyways, it's still much cheaper to modify Chord Quetest with sCLK-EX if we're able to find someone who's willing to do that.

 

For those of us who don't mind spinning Redbook CDs, there's also something else that's nice about Esoteric because they've got both coaxial inputs and outputs. We could take advantage of Mutec REF 10 with multiple outputs in order to create clock chains like this

 

(Mutec REF 10-enhanced) K-01Xs' coaxial output

 

→ (Mutec REF 10-enhanced) Mutec MC-3+ Smart Clock's coaxial input
→ (Mutec REF 10-enhanced) Mutec MC-3+ Smart Clock's coaxial output

 

→→ (Mutec REF 10-enhanced) Mutec MC-3+ Smart Clock USB's coaxial input
→→ (Mutec REF 10-enhanced) Mutec MC-3+ Smart Clock USB's coaxial output

 

→→→ (Mutec REF 10-enhanced) K-01Xs' coaxial input

 

There's also another DAC from Lynx Studio that could handle similar clock chains, though we've gotta connect Hilo to the Word Clock output of Mutec MC-3+

 

https://www.lynxstudio.com/products/hilo/

 

Unfortunately it consumes 22 watts and therefore we'll need LT3045 @ 12V 2A because LPS-1.2 won't work for Hilo

 

https://cdn4.lynxstudio.com/go/wp-content/uploads/Hilo-Manual-20170227-Press.pdf#page=62

[seeteeyou]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

I have recently loaned a tx-USBUltra from a friend (who is also using a sms200ultra) to see if I get any improvement in my streamer which has a JCAT Femoto USB card. Unfortunately, my experience has been very different than others - the tx-USBUltra degraded the SQ. I tried with two DACs and both has the same effect. This is also true for my friend who was testing it along with his sms200ultra. Though I am not using the sms200ultra in the chain, I always thought the tx-USBUltra would bring something +ive to the table and am really perplexed as this is very different from the trifecta experience folks have over here. Not sure if the tx-USBultra is defective or not.

 

Sometimes the SQ (or lack thereof) could very well depend on how we're powering tX-USBultra since sCLK-EX is super sensitive to its power source. Maybe you guys could also contact SOtM and see if they're able to give you any suggestions?

[seeteeyou]

There are at least 2 revisions for Supermicro X10SLH-F so far.

 

For Rev. 1.00 - I could count 6 clocks

 

 

For Rev. 1.02 - I could count 7 clocks

 

 

If you could take 6 / 7 closeup pictures of each and every clock, sometimes we could figure out what the frequency is.

 

Otherwise, just contact SOtM directly and ask them how to get the numbers they're looking for. Each sCLK-EX could only provide up to 4 taps and therefore you've gotta tell them what clock(s) you don't really need to replace.

 

Some clocks (e.g. Ethernet) should have identical frequency AND voltage, that's why both of them could be connected to the same tap simultaneously.

[seeteeyou]

They're picking that 5.5 / 2.1mm DC jack for such a premium product, granted the space seemed to be a constraint but most likely they could still go for the same Hirose connector that's found on their sPS-500

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=97&tab=comments#comment-675776

On 6/17/2017 at 5:01 AM, romaz said:

The problem is with the 2.1mm or 2.5mm DC plugs.  These are not low impedance plugs.  It would be ideal if you could apply the XL connector to your music server and your endpoints and I have thought about this but the XL connector is also very large and heavy.  There's no way, for example, to use this connector with something small like the microRendu.

 

They used to have three configurations listed on their Korean / American sites

 

http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sclk-ocx10/

https://sotm-usa.com/products/sclk-ocx10

 

However, we could find the following paragraph on Aussie ones right now

 

https://cruxaudio.com.au/products/sclk-ocx10-reference-master-clock

http://www.krispyaudio.com.au/products/SOtM-sCLK%2dOCX10-Reference-Master-Clock.html

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You can choose Standard, Advanced or Reference for the 10MHz clock, and the output signal can be set as 50ohm or 75ohm sine wave.

 

In other words, only the best "Reference" (i.e. the most expensive one) option is available, oh well.

[seeteeyou]

The performance of sCLK-OCX10 should largely depend on the quality of its power supply, while the length as well as the quality of clock cables also play a very important role.

 

It's drawing up to 2A and therefore LPS-1.2 might be no go, though it's actually cheaper to get LT3045 board @ 3A for €138

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/310402-fs-ultra-low-noise-power-supply-lt3045-based-pcb-2.html#post5227003

 

75Ω clock cables should be no biggie since we could simply get 3' Canare L-5.5CUHD for its outstanding performance. It's somewhat tricky for 50Ω ones when decent options aren't exactly cheap to begin with.

[seeteeyou]

On 2/8/2018 at 7:05 AM, jean-michel6 said:

I should have that in a few weeks !

 

That's so sweet. Intel didn't say much about the jitter of Celeron J1900 (i.e. Bay Trail)

 

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/pentium-n3520-j2850-celeron-n2920-n2820-n2815-n2806-j1850-j1750-datasheet.pdf#page=707

 

However, the maximum jitter of Celeron J3355 / J3455 / J4205 (i.e. Apollo Lake) looked "scary" since they're talking about hundreds of picoseconds

 

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/pentium-celeron-n-series-j-series-datasheet-vol-1.pdf#page=103

 

The minimum jitter was blank, though. Anyways those numbers might not be necessarily related to the system clocks to be replaced by sCLK-EX in the near future.

 

BTW, Supermicro talked about this stuff for their "gigantic" servers but I wonder if they're able to do something similar that could be beneficial for music servers?

 

Low Latency/Jitter Optimization

https://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/files/Hyper-Speed/low_lat_jitter_opt_guide.pdf

https://www.supermicro.com/white_paper/white_paper_Low-Latency.pdf

https://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/Hyper-Speed.cfm

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BIOS optimizations for 12% lower latency and 87% lower 99.99th percentile latency (Low-Latency "LL" optimized SKUs only)

 

Actually I suspect that Innuos might have paid Supermicro to do something about the BIOS of X10SBA-L but most likely only @romaz might have heard something from Nuno Vitorino who's the R&D Director at Innuos

 

http://hifipig.com/innuos-zenith-mk2/

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From the motherboard BIOS to the Operating System kernel and audio sub-systems, they have optimised settings to extract as much musical performance as they can.

 

[seeteeyou]

We could take a quick look at page 720 of Celeron J1900's datasheet

 

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/pentium-n3520-j2850-celeron-n2920-n2820-n2815-n2806-j1850-j1750-datasheet.pdf#page=720

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There are four lanes and up to four PCI Express root ports

 

And then check the block diagram of both X10SBA and X10SBA-L

 

https://www.supermicro.com/manuals/motherboard/J1900/MNL-1553.pdf#page=17

 

One PCI Express slot occupied 2 lanes. Then 2 Ethernet ports also occupied 2 lanes again and we're done.

 

That's all we could expect from Bay Trail while Apollo Lake would give you 6 lanes instead of 4. Basically that's why @romaz would like to design his own carrier board that's gonna give us plenty of PCI Express slots. Here's an example with 1 PCI Express and 3 Mini PCI Express slots

 

https://www.dfi.com/Product/Index/240

 

Heck, this particular one is compatible with Atom C3000 series and we'll have access to (record breaking?) 8 PCI Express slots

 

https://www.dfi.com/Product/Index/223