A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[charlesphoto]

On 10/21/2017 at 3:22 PM, Bruce Orr said:

 

I created 2 of John’s leakage ‘firewalls’ today. You’re right the space to insert both the solid 14 gauge and ground wires is tight. You can simply trim the ground wire strand by half or 3/4 and insert what’s left. That was the hardest part!  It was easy with John’s “how to” instructions and photos! 

Built some myself (not sure if I hear a difference but it was fun and cheap). Easiest way to get a solid 14 and a stranded 18 together is to put the stranded in the hole first and then the solid. 

 

Also, I might be wary of using one of these adapter stacks where the quality of the cable really counts - as in right before a Rendu. Any thoughts on that?

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So far this grounding tweak has utterly transformed my systems (both main and basement office). I’ve put on ten of these ground shunts so far, from the server and switches to FMC’s and even Roku’s, and honestly I’m not sure which ones are doing the transformation, but they’re all staying, and I’m waiting on 2.5mm connectors to do the Vortexbox and router properly. I’m over the moon with the sound now, esp considering the cost and ease of the tweak. I will keep an eye out for double insulated Class II, but that seems primarily for hand tools (consequently the reason the medical Meanwells are that). I also put a small wrap of electrical tape around the connectors just to be on the safe and tidy side. 

 

[charlesphoto]

Just ordered a set of these. The rest of the family leaves town next week and I was planning on dressing the cables anyway so thought I’d give these a try. Will report back.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KLVUQ38/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[charlesphoto]

16 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Problem with these is there's no frequency or impedance rating.  Any reason why you chose those over others at Amazon?

 

No reason really other than price and the reviews. None of the cheap combo kits offer any stats. I figured I’d try them and at least I can get an idea of various sizes needed before plopping down $5 ea on the digikey ones mentioned. If they make a difference for the good well alright - if not I’m not out a lot of money. Plus they’ll be here on Sunday. 

[charlesphoto]

12 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I like your style! ? 

 

Please keep us posted.

 

I like keeping this hobby fun... and thank you. 

[charlesphoto]

Good to know. Mine didn’t arrive yesterday but should be here today. 

 

I’m curious what is best practice with the very long smps cables such as the iFi ones. Just leave loose, concertina, or coil? And should one do several wraps of cable with the ferrite? And what’s the best position on the cable for the ferrites? 

 

Planning on doing all of the TV stuff as well that resides next to the hifi but is powered on a different circuit. I think those Roku’s, which are always on, throw lots of crap everywhere. 

[charlesphoto]

Johnseye - you may want to try removing the ferrites one at a time, starting with the interconnects first, USB and Ethernet after that. I’ve read, at least with Naim gear in my case, that ferrites can kill the sound when used on the DIN to DIN ic’s. One might need to find that balance between softening of the sound, and maintaining the music and PRAT. Nonetheless, fun, cheap, harmless stuff. Much better than spending three figures for that incremental bump that you think you hear. 

[charlesphoto]

8 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

It's not even an original insult. He copied this from Ralf11 !

 

No, he got it from the plague of trolls that’s descended over half of this country, all the way to the highest office. A rude insultin this time and age. 

 

Why can’t we just have our hobby with anecdotal impressions? What is Speedskater and his ilk trying to save us from anyway? It’s just stuff and money. I have no money, time or intention to delve into word clocks but enjoy reading about members experiences with them,  and so on. What  one shouldn’t do is go into every thread and crap on it just because one has an opposite agenda. Now that’s a stupid waste of time! 

[charlesphoto]

I had two twenty amp dedicated runs done years ago. Only used 12g Romex though - I feel like such a loser! Used Porter Port Cryo’d outlets. Made a nice change for sure though my gear at the time wasn’t as good as now. Doubt I’ll ever have the cable rerun with something better though. Far too many other things to fix around here! 

[charlesphoto]

I would be interested if anybody’s compared the sound of the TLS switch to a Cisco 2960? These can be picked up used for about $30 and the sound quality is night and day compared to a Netgear, even with an LPS and JSGT. 

[charlesphoto]

So got my practically brand new and sadly dented in one corner during shipping, Nov 2017 mfg date, $155 Cisco 2960-L-16PS-LL up and running as my main, and now only, switch. I was hasty in plugging it into the network and had a hell of a time getting everything to work properly but they do know. Couldn't seem to get the fiber working to the older 2960 upstairs, so just went with the Ghent JSSG lan cable to the mR plugged into a keystone that then goes to the new Cisco main switch almost directly below it in basement closet.

 

To my ears, the new switch, even with the cheap keystone, sounds better than the old 2960 (mfg date 2010) switch with the fiber link. More natural, less fatiguing sounding. Better separation esp in the highs - for example on my test track, the beginning of Jamal's Ahmad's Blues title track, there's a long piano roll in the high notes. I can really hear the individual keys now. I also run the mR in Bridge mode to feed Roon to the UQ in the office, via cheap Teragrand flat (to go under a carpet) lan cable from the new main switch, and that sounds better as well.

 

My conclusion is there's really no gain in going via fiber to another older 2960 unless for infrastructure reasons. I also think the quality of a switch is really a lot more important than many realize. I may experiment again, but for now I'm not touching anything! 

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8 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

I did another test with heavy gauge Neotech OCC copper in a twisted pair and JSSG360  , this is so far the best DC cable in my system .

 

Yeah, I think the Neotech is it, and the heavier the gauge the better. I also made up 12 gauge separated "cables" out of cheap Romex for the NUC and external HD attached to it powered by HDPLEX. System overall sounds bit beefier from it. 

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14 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

Non-PoE 8-port version in Japan seemed to be quite affordable, brand new ones cost about 10,800 yen a piece so that's less than 100 bucks

 

https://www.cisco.com/c/m/ja_jp/solutions/cisco-start/product_cat2960l.html

https://www.amazon.co.jp/シスコシステムズ-Catalyst-2960-L-Switch-WS-C2960L-8TS-JP/dp/B06XDBNJFG

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/en/special/order/confirm/https%3A%2F%2Fitem.rakuten.co.jp%2Fe-fellows5%2Fs-17041859%2F/N_1/

 

These are great prices though I see the second one is sold out. I really wanted 12 ports or more, and fanless, so I could consolidate the whole house and office into one switch. 16 port models from japan going for about $250 on ebay I think. I just checked every day, and finally one of the 16 port models came up and I offered a price I could live with. 

 

Seriously I wouldn’t hesitate about getting a newer Cisco switch. This was a huge upgrade from the older 2960-8tc-l and the power and cable setup was better with that one (fiber to dedicated hifi room switch plugged into dedicated circuit). No need for a linear power supply or FMC’s etc. I have a plastic crate of those downstairs waiting to be pawned off. The bass is particularly fuller, piano more natural, less glare. I’ve played everything from Prodigy to Keith Jarret and it all sounds great, which is not usually the case. Plus the ethernet throughout the house is snappier. 

 

Get a Cisco switch! Or wait for the Uptone! But the switch I believe is an important component of any streaming network to be ignored at your own loss. 

[charlesphoto]

1 hour ago, soares said:

Hi there. I don’t want to take any views on what is better as it might depend on lots of factors, but 2 weeks ago I tried an iFi x in my router it it made a positive jump from my HD plex  100. I was a little bit surprised as my former experiences with iFi older products were not very good.  My router is far away from my main equipment. I am using also 2 Farad and 2 LPS 1.2 in my system. 

 

I've had good success with the iFi AC iPurifiers plugged into my server closet power strip (a Supra with no surge). I use two, one at the beginning of the strip and then one halfway that separates the modem, main switch etc from the Roon server and oM's. I also have one each on my two dedicated lines for the front end of the system, and one on my office setup. I had two on my DAC V1 line for a it and one with the server, but found two on the server and one on the DAC was just a bit better as the server closet is on a really busy office circuit. Simple, inexpensive, easily moveable and testable, peace of mind from surge protection, and not a four figure beast sitting there with expensive unused outlets. 

 

The Uptone charger SMPS I find to be quite good, as good as the first gen Ifi wall warts at least, though limited to 7.5v. I'll have to look into the X version. The Sonore Power Supply that Barrows builds is really good as well, if somebody is looking for a US LPS instead of the PH wait or Sean Jacobs $$ (who built a really nice power cable for my Naim 160 that has a strange bulgin connector). But again limited to either 5 or 7v. I use the 7v with an SR black fuse and Shunyata NR V10 cable with my opticalrendu. 

[charlesphoto]

43 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

Shunyata's V14 Digital might be better in this application.  The V14D includes a different filter that comes from their medical division.  It's intended for "digital only" components (no analog stage).  I was able to compare the V14D to an NR V12 on the Farad Super3 powering my M-Scaler.  There was a noticeable reduction in the noise floor.  I'm using a V14D on the Farad Super3 powering my EtherRegen as well.  The V14D is priced at $250 and in my system it punches above its weight.  

 

Good to know but I'm fine for now and it sounds great to me. Originally bought it (at discount price - $350) for my Naim DAC V1 but too much bass and darkness and it just wasn't right. But yeah, if I knew it was going on the Sonore LPS I would have probably gone for what you recommend in the first place. For the V1 ended up making a cable with the AV Options Cryo'd 12AWG 'Tibia' and a Furutech F-11M(CU) plug and that retained the lively Naim sound. 

[charlesphoto]

23 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

Interesting observations - thanks for sharing.  It’s my understanding that the new NR V2 have shifted the Shunyata house sounds more in the speed/PRAT direction with the change to a different conductor.  One has to stretch to at least their $1000 Delta to get that though.  I plan to get one or two next year.

 

The Venom V10 and V12 NR generally deliver a really good bang for the buck.  I’ve tried them both and ended up with a V12 NR on both my home theater receiver and the Farad powering my TT2.  

 

Naim gear can be quite finicky with cables - they pretty much 'voice' their gear using their inexpensive though good 'Tibia' 14AWG Well Shin cable and/or their $$$ Powerline. The AV Options take the standard and notch it up a bit with Cryo and a new 12AWG version or better plugs , but at an almost $150 premium for a basic Wattgate plug (they leave the molded iec end as is). I figured I'd buy a better Furutech and DIY it myself. The Venom NR V10 on the DAC V1 didn't lose any PRAT, but the bass was so heavy it made the mid range recede and just wasn't that pleasant to listen to voices esp. otherwise beautiful and refined. Could partly be the room as well, but works great on the Sonore LPS. Couldn't try it on my Naim amp as that has a vintage bulgin connector that I had Sean Jacobs make up one of his Powerblack's for me. Nothing to complain about there. 

[charlesphoto]

2 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

I went through a period where just about every upgrade moved me a few steps forward in most areas but a step backwards in the bass.  I think I finally moved past that last year after moving my speakers and also adding ASC isothermal tube traps.  For two many years I neglected my room. Quite astonishing the improvements once I did focus on the room though.

 

You'll have to come and talk with my wife about that! I've done what I can, including the 'rack' having to remain an Ikea Besta which I've modded by screwing the whole thing together, double shelving the shelfs and a 3" thick butcher block on one for the amp and Herbie's grungebuster under all of the feet. There's always compromises to be made.... and moving speakers out into the room, esp with younger kids running about, is not one of them. 😅

[charlesphoto]

On 11/14/2020 at 10:55 PM, cool_chris said:

This is my nunber 1 after trying many finisars , planet tech and Startech SFPs

 

Just ordered a pair off of ebay close to me for $13 ea. But I noticed after paying they don't have the HW suffix. Any idea what HW designates? I currently have a pair of 1324's in my opticalModule/Rendu. 

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18 minutes ago, cool_chris said:

I don't know 

But please check the

1. Wave frequency 1310 - same in yours

2. Distance 2 km - same in yours

3. 2,488 Gbps v 2,67 Gbps in yours

They might be different in this aspects only and power consumption .

 

So the only difference is the speed that is higher between the SFPs and might be little more power consumption. 

 

 

The only "HW" designated ones I've seen for sale have been outside of the US, so that may also be the difference. Anyway, will try for $30 total and see what I think. Thanks for your research! 

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On 11/15/2020 at 10:27 PM, cool_chris said:

So 1321 on the pucture is much closer to planetech, but not as mechanical sounding.

Also this one has very good focuse and authority. Not as good as Startech but I think it is a great balance of all 3 in 1 SFP.

 

So what you get in 1321 is about  80% of detail focuse and authotity that Startech has.

90% of what Planetech offers being very well balanced in SQ.

80% of space and delicacy that is in 1324 without being harsh.

 

And it is do cheap that it is no brainer to get. I paid 20 Euro for 1321 SfP so 40 in total for a pair. 

 

I have collected few dozens of SFPs to find the one for me .

 

Choice of SFP is one of the biggest SQ changer you can have. 

It has much bigger effect than most of things we do.

 

 

Just installed the 1321's over the 1324's I had and I would say, without doing A/B the top end is less harsh. Playing violins now and sounds great. Perhaps a bit less detail but seemingly a bit more musical and less in your face. They'll stay in place. 

[charlesphoto]

3 hours ago, cool_chris said:

I am many weeks with that SFP. Some already tried to follow my findings.

Glad they like it.

It offers excellent balance of all aspects and very low noise.

I think I should call it "universal" SFP with all important aspects like musicality , authority, detail and control 👌 

Again this SFP is All in One for me.

 

Also is very solid so it is not changing character with time once burned in , but I got used SFPs to avoid the burning process that might take several weeks.

 

Esp finding piano to be much better. I typically use piano sounds as my canary in a coal mine so to speak. Any concerns about burning out the laser in this one used over short distances do you think? Rather not use attenuators. They are rather cheap on the used market so not too concerned if down the road I'd need to replace...

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21 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

@cool_chris   I don't stream, neither use a NAS and have everything in the local M.2 drive. However, I am using Fiber NIC in my server to connect to the network (for Roon/Euphony). I am using a Planet tech but don't remember the model. Have you experimented or know if in this situation the SFP would matter ? I guess it probably does to some extent but wanted to check if anybody has any experience in this particular case. You might have already posted the particular sfp module but if you don't mind, can you post a link one more time ? If its not too expensive, I might give it a try. Is this the one ?

 

 

• Posted November 15

From Cool Chris a couple of pages back: 

FTLF1321p1BTL

 

So 1321 on the pucture is much closer to planetech, but not as mechanical sounding.

Also this one has very good focuse and authority. Not as good as Startech but I think it is a great balance of all 3 in 1 SFP.

 

So what you get in 1321 is about  80% of detail focuse and authotity that Startech has.

90% of what Planetech offers being very well balanced in SQ.

80% of space and delicacy that is in 1324 without being harsh.

 

And it is do cheap that it is no brainer to get. I paid 20 Euro for 1321 SfP so 40 in total for a pair. 

 

I have collected few dozens of SFPs to find the one for me .

 

Choice of SFP is one of the biggest SQ changer you can have. 

It has much bigger effect than most of things we do.

 

[charlesphoto]

1 hour ago, lake_eleven said:

I have a question on SFP <-> switch compatibility. I have been using Cisco 2960 switch with TPLink MC200CM fmc, Cisco SPFs and multimode fiber cable without issue on my streamer. As many in this forum has been using Finisar FTLF1321P1BTL SFP with single mode cable, I tried this with my Cisco 2960 switch. But the streamer is not getting internet. Wanted to know if Finisar single mode SFP is compatible with the 2960 catalyst series switch.

Nope. Not unless it has the Cisco compatible code baked into it. Not sure if Finisair offers that. There might be a way in console to get a non-Cisco compatible switch to work, but that's beyond me. 

[charlesphoto]

4 hours ago, Psilonaught said:

Um that's all well and good however I am connecting my router (nighthawk x10 powered by a 19v LPSU) directly to my Rose RS130 via SFP.

 

And when I say direct I mean direct. Both units have SFP ports.

 

Why on earth would I want to add a router in the middle of the chain.

 

My approach creates a extremely black background with a level of naturalness that I adore. Digital that sounds totally "analogue".

That should work just fine. How far apart are your router and DAC? The best imo is the Cisco AOC which come premade in various lengths. You can find them at bargain prices on eBay etc (be sure to source an OEM one). It's SFP+ but backwards compatible with 1GB.