My (very) mini review of the Singxer SU-1 DDC

[Horace28]

What does everyone have their system volume control set to? 100% or lower?

[rocky]

1 hour ago, Horace28 said:

What does everyone have their system volume control set to? 100% or lower?

I keep it at 100% for when I sit down for a good listen or when someone else comes around for a listen.

Other times when background listening I may use Foobar, Aimp or any other players volume for convenience.

[Horace28]

To anyone using the Regen devices, I would recommend removing it and listening without it to see whether it is really improving the SU-1. In my case it deteriorated the data stream, despite many people saying it would improve it. Just a suggestion.

[ted_b]

19 minutes ago, Horace28 said:

To anyone using the Regen devices, I would recommend removing it and listening without it to see whether it is really improving the SU-1. In my case it deteriorated the data stream

In what way exactly?  And which "Regen device" are you referring to?

[R1200CL]

5 hours ago, Horace28 said:

To anyone using the Regen devices, I would recommend removing it and listening without it to see whether it is really improving the SU-1. In my case it deteriorated the data stream, despite many people saying it would improve it. Just a suggestion.

 

Same here. 

Remove IR and only use MicroRendu 1.4 was better. 

USPCB's used. 

 

 

[tboooe]

3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

Same here. 

Remove IR and only use MicroRendu 1.4 was better. 

USPCB's used. 

 

 

In my case, the IsoRegen definitely improved my system but I do not have a microrendu before my SU-1.  I use a cheap PC as my end point.

[Altabay]

3 minutes ago, tboooe said:

In my case, the IsoRegen definitely improved my system but I do not have a microrendu before my SU-1.  I use a cheap PC as my end point.

 

I'll add one more data point to make it interesting.  In my SU-1 and HoloAudio Spring DAC chain, ISO REGEN was a huge improvement but microRendu v1.3 was a major step back compared to a NUC running Win2012R2.  I'm still trying to figure this one out...

[tboooe]

1 minute ago, Altabay said:

 

I'll add one more data point to make it interesting.  In my SU-1 and HoloAudio Spring DAC chain, ISO REGEN was a huge improvement but microRendu v1.3 was a major step back compared to a NUC running Win2012R2.  I'm still trying to figure this one out...

Thank you for this.  I've been following your posts with a lot of interest as I am really debating if getting a microrendu would be worth it over my pc endpoint.  My system sounds so good right now it's hard to imagine how the microrendu could improve things.  

[scan80269]

It seems like we are collecting more results that suggest there are no hard and fast rules!

 

I'll add a couple of conflicting data points:

 

ISO REGEN (powered by LPS-1) helps my NUC (HQPlayer) + SU-1 (modded) + Holo Audio Spring L3 setup

 

ISO REGEN (powered by LPS-1) does not help my Auralic Aries Femto + Vega DAC setup

 

From what I can tell, the efficacy of ISO REGEN can depend on BOTH the upstream USB source and the downstream DAC/DDC.  Change just one of these components and the results can be quite different.

 

These days I do not find this surprising.  USB sources can vary greatly in their cleaniness, and DACs/DDCs can vary greatly in their ability to be immune from upstream USB crap.  Broad stroke generalizations are therefore difficult.  There's also the synergy argument.  My Aries Femto/Vega DAC combo apparently leaves nothing for the ISO REGEN to improve upon, but it makes an audible difference sitting between my fanless NUC and SU-1 DDC.

 

In other words, YMMV!

 

[elan120]

Inspired by @scan80269, I also decided to try out a sorted NDK NZ2520SD at the 22.5792MHz location to see how differently this oscillator will perform.  Will work on replacing the 24.576MHz tomorrow or this weekend.

[R1200CL]

Has anyone tried this one ?

http://store.matrix-digi.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=65

 

Maybe very similar to the SU-1 ?

 

 

[R1200CL]

EDIT:

 

I found this thread:

 

 

http://matrix-digi.com/pdf/X-SPDIF_2_Manual_EN.pdf

 

[pkane2001]

On 8/14/2017 at 8:30 PM, scan80269 said:

It seems like we are collecting more results that suggest there are no hard and fast rules!

 

I'll add a couple of conflicting data points:

 

ISO REGEN (powered by LPS-1) helps my NUC (HQPlayer) + SU-1 (modded) + Holo Audio Spring L3 setup

 

ISO REGEN (powered by LPS-1) does not help my Auralic Aries Femto + Vega DAC setup

 

From what I can tell, the efficacy of ISO REGEN can depend on BOTH the upstream USB source and the downstream DAC/DDC.  Change just one of these components and the results can be quite different.

 

These days I do not find this surprising.  USB sources can vary greatly in their cleaniness, and DACs/DDCs can vary greatly in their ability to be immune from upstream USB crap.  Broad stroke generalizations are therefore difficult.  There's also the synergy argument.  My Aries Femto/Vega DAC combo apparently leaves nothing for the ISO REGEN to improve upon, but it makes an audible difference sitting between my fanless NUC and SU-1 DDC.

 

In other words, YMMV!

 

 

Interesting measurement results were published for both, ISO-Regen and LPS-1 on ASR forums. Seems not everything is as clear and clean as you'd expect from the marketing. Some AC currents leaking through LPS-1 into the DAC seems particularly troubling, considering its design. Also, seems that the iFi iPower supply (that I had used with my SU-1) allows for a significant noise from the mains to be injected. I've since gone the way of modifying the stock LPS on SU-1 with a better regulator and capacitors, so iFi is no longer in service. I may go back and re-measure its effects in my system, focusing on lower frequencies.

 

[R1200CL]

21 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Interesting measurement results were published for both, ISO-Regen and LPS-1 on ASR forums. Seems not everything is as clear and clean as you'd expect from the marketing. Some AC currents leaking through LPS-1 into the DAC seems particularly troubling, considering its design. Also, seems that the iFi iPower supply (that I had used with my SU-1) allows for a significant noise from the mains to be injected. I've since gone the way of modifying the stock LPS on SU-1 with a better regulator and capacitors, so iFi is no longer in service. I may go back and re-measure its effects in my system, focusing on lower frequencies.

 

 

You may read @Superdad comments on Amir's method on measurement. 

 

As a start you could ask him to power the LPS1-1 with a battery, or power the IR with a battery. 

I make you a bet, he will never do. Nor will he ever use a LPS on his analysiser. 

Or exchange the LPS-1 with a Vinne Rossie. 

 

No no reason to pollute this thread with Amir findings. 

[pkane2001]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

 

You may read @Superdad comments on Amir's method on measurement. 

 

As a start you could ask him to power the LPS1-1 with a battery, or power the IR with a battery. 

I make you a bet, he will never do. Nor will he ever use a LPS on his analysiser. 

Or exchange the LPS-1 with a Vinne Rossie. 

 

No no reason to pollute this thread with Amir findings. 

 

Since LPS-1 was recommended to me and to others as the mechanism to eliminate AC leakage currents, the measurements Amir published are significant. And why would I power LPS-1 with a battery instead of just using a battery directly with IR or SU-1?

 

[jventer]

Are we talking about the Singxer or should we/you rather go and take this to the discussion about power supplies?

[pkane2001]

1 minute ago, jventer said:

Are we talking about the Singxer or should we/you rather go and take this to the discussion about power supplies?

 

I thought I responded to a post that mentioned LPS-1 in relation to SU-1, and did talk about SU-1 in my post. You can simply ignore what I post if you're not interested.

 

[R1200CL]

31 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Since LPS-1 was recommended to me and to others as the mechanism to eliminate AC leakage currents,

 

I suggest you try the LPS-1. 

@Superdad has a 30 day money back guarantee. If you for any reason need more, I'm sure he is happy to give you. 

 

Trust your ears, (not a lunatic that hasn't a clue what he's doing). 

 

If you seriously like to discuss LPS-1, please continue here:

 

Also this thread has several times said by others that the SQ is lifted by power the SU-1 with the LPS-1. 

[pkane2001]

5 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

I suggest you try the LPS-1. 

@Superdad has a 30 day money back guarantee. If you for any reason need more, I'm sure he is happy to give you. 

 

Trust your ears, (not a lunatic that hasn't a clue what he's doing). 

 

If you seriously like to discuss LPS-1, please continue here:

 

Also this thread has several times said by others that the SQ is lifted by power the SU-1 with the LPS-1. 

 

Thanks, but I'm not interested in yet another discussion of 'trust your ears'. 

 

[electrafixion]

Last week my friend and I tried substituting my upgraded Singxer power supply (Dexa precision voltage regulator, Nichicon Fine Gold + Wima bypass caps) with his LPS-1 (powered by the Mean Well wall wart that Uptone supplies).  We both concluded that my system sounded more sterile and was lacking dynamics with the LPS-1 in place.  Needless to say, we were surprised by the results.  Some have suggested the Mean Well power supply compromises the LPS-1, so we plan to redo our test soon with a couple of different power supplies.

[pkane2001]

3 minutes ago, electrafixion said:

Last week my friend and I tried substituting my upgraded Singxer power supply (Dexa precision voltage regulator, Nichicon Fine Gold + Wima bypass caps) with his LPS-1 (powered by the Mean Well wall wart that Uptone supplies).  We both concluded that my system sounded more sterile and was lacking dynamics with the LPS-1 in place.  Needless to say, we were surprised by the results.  Some have suggested the Mean Well power supply compromises the LPS-1, so we plan to redo our test soon with a couple of different power supplies.

 

I'm thinking about powering mine off of a battery. I already do this for my ethernet USB extension and hub. SU-1 draws less than 1A, so something like a 20000mA/h rechargeable battery should work pretty well.

[elan120]

Completed the other oscillator (24.576MHz) replacement, and now start to do the burn-in.  Have been doing the burn-in for the 22.5792MHz oscillator since it was installed last night, and the initial listening impression is very positive.

 

[Superdad]

10 hours ago, electrafixion said:

Some have suggested the Mean Well power supply compromises the LPS-1...

 

It does not and can not.  

The DC cable from the Mean Well radiates a little bit of mains harmonics, but those do not get into or through the LPS-1.  Output of the LPS-1 is not effect one bit by the quality of the charging supply.  Period.  

Will be publishing some graphs tomorrow showing ZERO leakage current through the LPS-1.  

Plus it has about the lowest output impedance possible, though graphs of that (single numbers are bogus) will be taking a little longer to produce.  Now that John's new lab in his new home is set up, we will be publishing more measurements and working on more products soon.

[Superdad]

7 hours ago, elan120 said:

Completed the other oscillator (24.576MHz) replacement, and now start to do the burn-in.  Have been doing the burn-in for the 22.5792MHz oscillator since it was installed last night, and the initial listening impression is very positive.

 

Hi Kevin:

Please remind me what clocks you found and installed that have lower phase-noise than the SU-1's stock Crystek CCHD-575s?  Something custom measured/selected by Patrick perhaps?

Best,

--Alex C.

 

[EDIT: Never mind, I just scrolled up and saw that indeed you got some selected NDKs.  Likely from Patrick at ArT before he stopped doing them.]

[pkane2001]

17 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 Will be publishing some graphs tomorrow showing ZERO leakage current through the LPS-1.  

 

Very curious to see these, Alex, along with details on how these were acquired.