Why I think Roon is overpriced even though I've never tried it

[MikeJazz]

thank you..probably what i would do...

 

if they won't let you access your folders like most players, maybe they could add an "import" to playlist feature...that should be an easy future feature....where you could at least browse to and add a folder to a playlist....

 

Why don't you Just try roon instead of debating? They have a trial. You might just find it does what you need...

[beerandmusic]

Why don't you Just try roon instead of debating? They have a trial. You might just find it does what you need...

 

I did try it, even before Chris started this thread.

I am not the originator of the title of this thread...Chris is.

I am about 5 days into a 60 day trial now.

 

If you read through the thread, you would see that I tried it. I like some aspects....some aspects i don't.

 

I will "probably" buy it once the price comes down (and hopefully they will have some of the options i want by then).

 

I did however just buy HQPlayer today after Miska made a change i requested (new version released today)....HQPlayer has better SQ, more control over your folders, and less than 1/3 of the price...now if only Miska can team with someone to make one player with a nice gui (wink)....I can't stop hoping for improvements in both RooN and hqp.

[ShawnC]

Not sure I'm seeing it (Chris is the originator). Where is Chris's reference for this thread title. Chris's has been on board with Roon well before it was released. Not to put words in your mouth Chris. Your the first post on this thread. I'm not sure how these new threads start, so if it came from somewhere else it should be stated in your first post. Again, I may have missed it.

[sdolezalek]

On a site where people spend thousand of dollars on cables, tens of thousand on DACs, AMPs and PreAMPs and $20,000 or more on speakers, I find it amazing that a thread about a 14 day free/1 year for $119/$500 for a lifetime subscription piece of software being "overpriced" is attracting this level of attention.

 

Either, we have lost all sense of perspective, in favor of needless ranting over insignificant stuff,

 

or,

 

Maybe there are a lot of people who really do want Roon (perhaps because most of us who have spent the time getting to know it have stopped using everything else except HQPlayer/Tidal played through Roon as a front end), but for some reason can't even come up with the $119 for a year to figure out whether they really want it...

 

From any reasonable perspective there are too many other places wher eoutrage over price could/should be directed.

[sdolezalek]

Not sure I'm seeing it (Chris is the originator). Where is Chris's reference for this thread title. Chris's has been on board with Roon well before it was released. Not to put words in your mouth Chris. Your the first post on this thread. I'm not sure how these new threads start, so if it came from somewhere else it should be stated in your first post. Again, I may have missed it.

 

I suggested that Chris move this discussion to its own thread because it was clogging up Chris' "Official Roon User Impressions" thread and at the time beerandmusic specifically stated he hadn't even tried it (so his opinion didn't belong on a Roon User thread). For fun, I suggested the title because it reflected what beerandmusic was saying.

 

beerandmusic has been a good sport about the whole thing and has suggested several times that the whole thread just be removed -- but it has taken on a life of its own (which per my other response above is in my view more a sign of the times about needless rants than anything else).

[ShawnC]

Thanks for the clarification, sdolezalek.

[beerandmusic]

beerandmusic has been a good sport about the whole thing and has suggested several times that the whole thread just be removed

thank you

[gcoupe]

thank you..probably what i would do...

 

if they won't let you access your folders like most players, maybe they could add an "import" to playlist feature...that should be an easy future feature....where you could at least browse to and add a folder to a playlist....

 

RTM.

[Evo1668]

thank you..probably what i would do...

 

if they won't let you access your folders like most players, maybe they could add an "import" to playlist feature...that should be an easy future feature....where you could at least browse to and add a folder to a playlist....

 

What I have always done since before I first started using Roon, I added an extended genre tag. You just need to use , separator for adding additional genre tag fields (i mainly use MP3 Tag for bulk tagging when needed) I use a format that signifies the top directory structure for a group of albums within a specific folder e.g. file by artist (abc, def etc..) file by format (DSD, Studio Master) ....etc....

 

Using Roon it was easy enough to search for these tags, as you can mix and match both your own and Roon's metadata. I then saved these searches as bookmarks which in turn replicates my directory structure. As and when I add new files, I have got into the habit to tag them accordingly based on where I store the files. Roon automatically picks this location up when you select the bookmark

[beerandmusic]

RTM.

 

why rtm, when it doesn't address my question? It won't be in the manual, because it doesn't have the basic functionality that most players do.

[gcoupe]

why rtm, when it doesn't address my question? It won't be in the manual, because it doesn't have the basic functionality that most players do.

The link I gave you is to the section in the manual titled "importing playlists", which I thought was what you were looking for. Honestly, sometimes I wonder why I even bother.

[beerandmusic]

What I have always done since before I first started using Roon, I added an extended genre tag. You just need to use , separator for adding additional genre tag fields (i mainly use MP3 Tag for bulk tagging when needed) I use a format that signifies the top directory structure for a group of albums within a specific folder e.g. file by artist (abc, def etc..) file by format (DSD, Studio Master) ....etc....

 

Using Roon it was easy enough to search for these tags, as you can mix and match both your own and Roon's metadata. I then saved these searches as bookmarks which in turn replicates my directory structure. As and when I add new files, I have got into the habit to tag them accordingly based on where I store the files. Roon automatically picks this location up when you select the bookmark

 

i still think it is a good suggestion, that if they won't allow you to browse your file structure, that they should at least allow you to add a folder to a playlist. It would be very easy to do, and satisfy others that have special folders that don't want to have to edit metadata.

 

add to playlist

browse

add folder to playlist

 

would be very easy to implement, and i hope they read this suggestion...jmo

[Paul R]

There is a way to browse by file and folder on Roon? I must have missed that. If I wanted to nest my folders, would I be able to?

 

You simply set up your metadata to deal with it. Evo1668 just posted a good way to do it, and there are one or two other ways. Honestly, claiming that file/folder browsing is a showstopper is kind of irrelevant to my way of thinking. Now, if you don't curate your metadata, you are definitely SOL - but *everyone* should be doing that. It is the single most important thing to do with a digital collection. It makes you independent of software player, OS, storage device, etc.

 

 

That's not the point, though. The point is whether it offers value. My hifi setup is worth in excess of $100,000, yet I won't spend $500 on Roon. Why - because I do not see the value in it. It doesn't do what I want it to do*.

 

Which is perfectly valid to me. I didn't buy Roon because I don't like Tidal, and Roon is being a bit mulish about supporting Apple Music. (shrug) Personal reasons are personal reasons, and there is no rhyme, reason, or justification needed for them.

 

But - there is always a but - that is different from saying Roon is too expensive. It would not matter if it was 100% free - if it doesn't do what I want it to do, then it is not the software for me.

 

 

My photography setup is worth about $8000, yet I bought Photoshop. Why - because Photoshop offers value. It is very nearly as important as the camera itself.

 

I tend to buy compilers like that.

 

The point is still as above, if it does what you want it to do, then the cost becomes a factor. If it doesn't, then cost should not be considered as a factor.

 

-Paul

[beerandmusic]

You simply set up your metadata to deal with it. Evo1668 just posted a good way to do it

 

First you stated you could browse folders...so you were wrong in your supposed "statement of fact" and that is what Keith was referring to as you know.

 

But - there is always a but - that is different from saying Roon is too expensive. It would not matter if it was 100% free - if it doesn't do what I want it to do, then it is not the software for me.

 

Lets get off the it's too expensive kick. The only reason that keeps coming up, is because Chris made that title. This thread continues to talk about other shortcomings of ROON. If Chris wanted to, and imho, he should, he should either KILL this thread as i have suggested many times, or he can at least change the title again. He made poor judgement in my opinion to create this thread title. It will keep popping up and keep people upset on both sides. The subject title is too bold, which is why it continues to be so active.

 

The point is still as above, if it does what you want it to do, then the cost becomes a factor. If it doesn't, then cost should not be considered as a factor.

 

Or it may be that some people are willing to buy it, if it does go on sale again (as it has on at least 2 different occasions), and they believe that some suggestions may be implemented if easy to do and enough people request. So it is possible that it is too expensive (for some) without a coupon with the features it is lacking...but that it may be reasonable enough on a "group buy" or coupon and hope that they will address some of their potential customers wishes.

[beerandmusic]

Another thought...hopefully this thread will perhaps bring more business to HQPlayer. If someone googles ROON, they may find this thread and those that are willing to spend $500 for a gui should certainly be willing to spend $150 more to have HQplayer's SQ...or they may find that they really just want the best SQ and accomplish that with just HQPlayer (or with another gui) and not need the $500 GUI if they are more interested in SQ...i actually am getting accustomed to HQplayers gui now that he just implemented a "double-click & play feature" that i requested.

[hornytoad]

Another thought...hopefully this thread will perhaps bring more business to HQPlayer. If someone googles ROON, they may find this thread and those that are willing to spend $500 for a gui should certainly be willing to spend $150 more to have HQplayer's SQ...or they may find that they really just want the best SQ and accomplish that with just HQPlayer (or with another gui) and not need the $500 GUI if they are more interested in SQ...i actually am getting accustomed to HQplayers gui now that he just implemented a "double-click & play feature" that i requested.

 

Actually the reverse will happen and will increase Roon sales .

Roon should thank you for the rant .

[beerandmusic]

nvm

[beerandmusic]

The link I gave you is to the section in the manual titled "importing playlists", which I thought was what you were looking for.

 

no, it doesn't answer the question.

[Paul R]

First you stated you could browse folders...so you were wrong in your supposed "statement of fact" and that is what Keith was referring to as you know.

No, that is not what I said and I was not wrong in the least. What I said is 100% factual and accurate. And yes, your little rant about it *is* wrong and you are totally out of line. What *I* said was:

Those who want to see file and folder certainly can, and if they want to reflect it in Roon, simply store your files on disk by file/folder and adjust the metadata. Most people probably do that anyway these days.

 

Lets get off the it's too expensive kick. The only reason that keeps coming up, is because Chris made that title. This thread continues to talk about other shortcomings of ROON. If Chris wanted to, and imho, he should, he should either KILL this thread as i have suggested many times, or he can at least change the title again. He made poor judgement in my opinion to create this thread title. It will keep popping up and keep people upset on both sides. The subject title is too bold, which is why it continues to be so active.

 

 

Again - the first post in is thread is from you - YOU named it, nobody else.

 

 

Or it may be that some people are willing to buy it, if it does go on sale again (as it has on at least 2 different occasions), and they believe that some suggestions may be implemented if easy to do and enough people request. So it is possible that it is too expensive (for some) without a coupon with the features it is lacking...but that it may be reasonable enough on a "group buy" or coupon and hope that they will address some of their potential customers wishes.

 

So, you have never posted the links that show this to be true. Either post the links, or as other people have said, it did not happen. This harping of yours is again, way out of line. You need to quit whining and apologize.

 

 

-Paul

[hornytoad]

Too much beer,too little music

[hvbias]

Whether $500 is expensive or not, depends on whether it is WORTH $500, rather than how much money you have. Let's look at the asking price of Roon in perspective.

 

I spent $500 on Acourate, and I think that's cheap. My system relies on Acourate to work. Without Acourate, I wouldn't be able time align my speakers, perform individual driver correction, room correction, etc. It has completely transformed my system. I told a friend that Acourate ranks as my second most important purchase behind my speakers. I would gladly pay Uli twice as much.

 

I also bought HQPlayer, and I think that's cheap. Why? Because it is the only player on the market that does all these things: upsample, output DSD, uses convolution filters, and generates active crossovers. I would also gladly pay Miska twice as much. In fact, Miska has no real competition - there is no other software that does what HQP does.

 

What other software costs $500? Well, a perpetual license for Photoshop used to cost $700. Think for a moment, what Photoshop can do. It is the industry standard for a good reason. Microsoft Office Suite for Home is also about $500.

 

Now let's see what Roon offers. What can Roon add to my system? I can already find my music. I don't have my music scattered among several HDD's in my house. I have one sound system, and don't need to send music to a few systems around the place. I don't care for Tidal integration. And I really don't care about the garbage bios they serve up. After reading what Danny said earlier in this thread, it seems to me as if they are trying to reinvent the wheel - putting classical lovers through MORE inconvenience, rather than less.

 

And let's not forget what Roon DOESN'T have - you can not customize the interface or use skins (Foobar), you can not delete or hide features (JRiver, Kodi), you can not view directories / file structure (JRiver, Foobar, Kodi), you can not play videos (JRiver), and if Roon thinks that "Alfred Brendel" is a composer, there is no way you can over-ride it, short of editing metadata for dozens of files. You can't tell Roon to stop serving up information about Bach and save the screen space for something useful. Roon has no DSP engine (JRiver, Foobar), for that it has to rely on HQPlayer. You can't make Roon display your music the way you have arranged it. Danny was here earlier telling us that the Roon way was better, which immediately begs the question - I have to adapt to Roon? I can't make Roon adapt to what I want?

 

For me, the only reason to buy Roon is it provide a pretty interface for HQPlayer and the Android app. But would I be willing to pay $500 for that? Absolutely not. For $500, I would expect it to be the Swiss Army Knife of players, the way Photoshop is the Swiss Army Knife of imaging, and Microsoft Office the the go-to solution for the home office. Both products do everything you concievably need to do. I would expect to be able to customize it to my needs, instead of forcing me to work on its terms.

 

Make a product like this, and I would gladly pay $500.

 

Keith I am very interested in what you're doing since my application with Acourate will be extremely similar to yours (I'm even considering the NADAC). We had a brief exchange on ASR in your system thread

 

Do you find DSD output with SDM convolution in HQPlayer to sound better than leaving everything native PCM, if I recall the vast majority of your classical collection is PCM (like mine)? When I asked ****** about it with regard to convolution and multichannel ES based DACs he said that it could go either way since the ES has to do a multibit "PCM" (? I am not really clear on this given the ESS data sheet) conversion internally regardless if it is sent DSD or PCM. Add to that the convolution, as I understand is being done in PCM math. Please excuse any inaccuracies or if I'm misunderstanding your use, I have not had time for either forum recently.

 

Edit: haha the forum software is auto censoring the screen name of the person that said this, I think because he is banned here. He is the manufacturer of the stand alone hardware streamer and rather controversial figure

[Keith_W]

Hi hvbias, your question is off-topic for this thread We should continue this conversation on my system thread in ASR, or better still my system thread on SNA (link here: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/106551-keith_w-system/ ). I got a little fed up with some of the guys on ASR so i've stopped updating my system thread there.

 

In brief: the ESS9008 in the NADAC converts PCM to 1 bit delta-sigma internally. Sending it a DSD signal bypasses this internal conversion and results in better sound.

[hvbias]

Hi hvbias, your question is off-topic for this thread We should continue this conversation on my system thread in ASR, or better still my system thread on SNA (link here: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/106551-keith_w-system/ ). I got a little fed up with some of the guys on ASR so i've stopped updating my system thread there.

 

In brief: the ESS9008 in the NADAC converts PCM to 1 bit delta-sigma internally. Sending it a DSD signal bypasses this internal conversion and results in better sound.

 

Thanks, that last part says it all. I left a note at ASR saying I was taking a long break, I was fed up with a lot of the stuff there as well. I'll continue future discussion/questions there.

[beerandmusic]

^^^Paul--

1. Chris did name the title and did create this thread regardless of what you know or don't know...and he has put me in a position where i feel i should state my current and true opinion every time someone posts here...i wish he would just kill the thread. He even created the thread AFTER i tried the program, so not only did he create it, it also is not even true.

 

2. I did post links and Roon even came here and stated, yes they have had discounts.

 

3. As far as being able to see folders in roon, you can't...no matter what you do to the metadata...so no argument if you just meant you can "reflect" what is in the folders...but the first part of the sentence said people can see files and folders...i guess you mean people can see folders and files in windows explorer??...if that is what you meant, you should have stated that...you just worded it funny...bottom line is you can't see or navigate folders and files for playing in roon like other players...."reflecting" what is in the folders was not my question, so I am not sure what point you were trying to make....

 

4. I did apologize if i offended anyone, and will do so again...that was not my intent.

[wushuliu]

IMHO Roon is perfect for a certain demographic. Not for me, but I get it. But let's put it this way and you can take it to the bank: Apple is going to buy Roon.