Article: Holo Audio Spring Level 3 Kitsune Tuned Edition R2R DAC Review

ted_b · January 9, 2017

Except that with the EXACT same set-up (OS X HQP Desktop>microRendu/NAA>DAC), both my Geek Pulse (also an XMOS USB input) and my iFi micro iDSD DO allow for direct, "native," SDM/DSD to be chosen on player screen.

Puzzled...

Alex,

Are you saying you still have issues with the microRendu firmware update to enable correct NAA functionality (SDM none) on the Spring? I mentioned your issue to Jesus yesterday and then I saw an earlier post by you that seemed to imply all was now well (i.e the update now works). Please clarify. Thx

Superdad · January 9, 2017

Alex,
Are you saying you still have issues with the microRendu firmware update to enable correct NAA functionality (SDM none) on the Spring? I saw an earlier post by you that seemed to imply all was now well (i.e the update now works). Please clarify. Thx

Hi Ted:

Yes, the problem is very much still here and repeatable--and only with the Spring.

The cured problem you saw reference to was an accidental disabling of all NAA functionality in the version of OrbiterOS I had upgraded to last Thursday. Others had the problem to; Jesus replicated Friday night, made a post acknowledging it, and issued a new version of OrbiterOS Saturday morning.

Updating gave me back NAA function (NAA in App Switcher now says "Active" in green instead of "Unknown" in grey). After that is when I discovered that direct SDM is not available--just for the Spring.

Truth is, since the latest OrbiterOS update is the first time I had tried to set HQP to direct ("native") SDM/DSD with the Spring, I don't know when or why the ability disappeared. But since it works for you, I concluded in my last posts to you that the problem is caused either by recent OrbiterOS updates or that my Spring has different USB (older/newer) firmware that yours.

I think the most definitive way to know would be for you to update your OrbiterOS to the very latest (Saturday) version and then see if direct SDM with the Spring is still available to you.

That and please report your DAC's firmware version number (I posted mine a couple of posts up, but I'm on iPad and can't scroll to it right now).

Thanks again for your efforts on this. Would love to get non-DoP working with the Spring before John arrives for a 3-day visit this Wednesday.

Best,

--Alex C.

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

Forehaven · January 9, 2017

Alex,
The Holo dac was certified direct DSD (native) several months ago (also see Sonicorbiter Native DSD thread). This means the HQP should be set to SDM none and the microRendu set to the latest update (assuming Jesus's update process is working now, or that it was shipped with the latest when you ordered it). It most definitely does SDM none (up to DSD512). The Singxer is a completely separate issue here. I'm talking direct USB connection from microRendu. Linux. And yes a Windows NAA also does direct, but that is not a microRendu issue.

Your HQP settings should look like this (copied as late as 10 min ago):

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32238[/ATTACH]

Ted, I only see ASDM7 period, no 512+fs...the only two similar are DSD5v2 256+fs and DSD7 256+fs. SDM to None...no SU1, only MR and Intona.

ted_b · January 9, 2017

Ted, I only see ASDM7 period, no 512+fs...the only two similar are DSD5v2 256+fs and DSD7 256+fs. SDM to None...no SU1, only MR and Intona.

Chris, you must have an older version of HQP. See my settings here:

lmitche · January 9, 2017

Ted, just for grins, try setting DAC bits to 32 and have a listen at dsd512.

ted_b · January 9, 2017

Alex,

I updated late Sunday afternoon, with Jesus's latest, and SDM none (aka direct DSD) continues to work like a charm. My Holo Spring firmware is 16.92 (September firmware date), same as yours.

ted_b · January 9, 2017

Larry, will do. I think I tried that and found little diff, but will try again. However, tonight is full and then not back for another 8 days

YashN · January 9, 2017

and the additional simplicity could even make for better sound quality.

+ 1 gazillion, it's one of my overarching pursuits now.

Forehaven · January 9, 2017

Chris, you must have an older version of HQP. See my settings here:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]32292[/ATTACH]

What version do you have working Ted?

Superdad · January 9, 2017

Alex,
I updated late Sunday afternoon, with Jesus's latest, and SDM none (aka direct DSD) continues to work like a charm. My Holo Spring firmware is 16.92 (September firmware date), same as yours.

Well then I am baffled! Same OrbiterOS, same DAC firmware. Yet the moment I set SDM Pack to "None," the option for "SDM (DSD)" on HQP's right-most player drop down disappears and PCM becomes the only choice. And this is ONLY with the Spring DAC. Works fine with 2 other supported DSD DACs.

So now we are down to the only last difference between our set ups: I am running HQP Desktop (3.14.4) on OS X, and you are running it under Windows. But how could that make a difference since the microRendu is the Linux supporting DSD, the apps are the same, and I have no problem with other DACs doing direct-DSD?!

Any chance you have a Mac handy? Sorry for all the trouble. I am not even sure who else to seek help from. Miska? Jesus? Jeff Zhu? None of them are going to have all the components to replicate this (HQP, mR, Holo Spring, and OS X)

More ideas?

Thanks,

--Alex C.

rickca · January 9, 2017

Well then I am baffled!

Does your Spring work with SDM Pack None attached via USB to your Mac? That takes micro rendu and NAA out of the picture, just for troubleshooting.

Superdad · January 9, 2017

Does your Spring work with SDM Pack None attached via USB to your Mac? That takes micro rendu and NAA out of the picture, just for troubleshooting.

Can't do that! macOS CoreAudio does not support direct-DSD, only DoP.

I might borrow my son's Windows laptop, install an eval copy of HQP on it, and try that will the mR/NAA. For test of if it is an HQP Win versus OS X issue, that would then functionally duplicate Ted's set up.

Just don't have a bundle of time this week.

rickca · January 9, 2017

Whoops. Sorry, I forgot about that CoreAudio restriction.

ted_b · January 9, 2017

Well then I am baffled! Same OrbiterOS, same DAC firmware. Yet the moment I set SDM Pack to "None," the option for "SDM (DSD)" on HQP's right-most player drop down disappears and PCM becomes the only choice. And this is ONLY with the Spring DAC. Works fine with 2 other supported DSD DACs.

So now we are down to the only last difference between our set ups: I am running HQP Desktop (3.14.4) on OS X, and you are running it under Windows. But how could that make a difference since the microRendu is the Linux supporting DSD, the apps are the same, and I have no problem with other DACs doing direct-DSD?!

Any chance you have a Mac handy? Sorry for all the trouble. I am not even sure who else to seek help from. Miska? Jesus? Jeff Zhu? None of them are going to have all the components to replicate this (HQP, mR, Holo Spring, and OS X)

More ideas?

Thanks,

--Alex C.

Alex,

I would but leaving for 8 day trip in am, so need to do other stuff. My MAc Mini is packed away (i.e not used daily) but if this is still an issue when I get back I will definitely try.

ted_b · January 9, 2017

What version do you have working Ted?

It's 3.14.4 Windows 10.

Forehaven · January 10, 2017

It's 3.14.4 Windows 10.

Ah, running older 3.13. Upgrading now. Thx!

Superdad · January 10, 2017

Alex,
I would but leaving for 8 day trip in am, so need to do other stuff. My MAc Mini is packed away (i.e not used daily) but if this is still an issue when I get back I will definitely try.

Thanks Ted. As mentioned, I'm going to try it with the Windows version of HQP. Makes no sense, but if it works with Windows (why just this one DAC?), then Jussi will be whom I will direct my queries to.

Travel safely wherever your trip is taking you. And I hope you have fun!

Best,

--Alex C.

Solstice380 · January 14, 2017

Any luck yet, Alex?

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

Bimmer100 · January 19, 2017

It's 3.14.4 Windows 10.

I'm trying to find a way to get a mac and play around and see what I can do.

My wife is shopping for me to get a Macbook, but may Macbook Pro.

thoughts? would a Macbook be sufficient to do dsd on HQ player. I don't want to spend a lot, but a Macbook pro with our discount isn't terrible. the faster CPU, 8gb ram and 512gb ssd.

ted_b · March 28, 2017

Couple of updates:

1) I will be getting firmware in the next couple of days to test DSD512 via the SU-1. Stay tuned. No promises.

2) In speaking with Tim, they had a bad batch of side panels arrive (damaged) so it will put a 2 week delay on folks expecting new Holos.

tboooe · March 28, 2017

1 minute ago, ted_b said:

Couple of updates:

1) I will be getting firmware in the next couple of days to test DSD512 via the SU-1. Stay tuned. No promises.

You must have been using the force on me! I emailed Tim about 30 mins ago asking about this! Hopefully it will work. I really want to try 512 on the Holo.

ted_b · March 30, 2017

(I will add this to the review body when Chris figures out why the author, me, can no longer edit , a growing pain of the otherwise wonderful site upgrade )

So, it is exciting to give you feedback on this new beta firmware for the Singxer SU-1. A few caveats:

1) This firmware is brought to you by Kitsune Hifi, and is going to be exclusively for Kitsune SU-1 customers.

2) This firmware, named 2.20, is ONLY targeted to be used with the Holo dac

3) This firmware is still not ready for prime time, as it currently needs work to handshake properly with Roon and others. Please don't bug Tim about it or it will get more behind, and reviewers like me will get fewer of these exclusive testing opportunities, something Tim is hoping will further the production release, not delay it.

4) Tim or I will announce as soon as this thing is ready.

All that being said, I am now getting native DSD512, from HQPlayer, via I2S and the SU-1/Holo combo! In my case I am first using the Windows Holo ASIO driver on my Windows NAA. I have not tested it with the microRendu yet, as that unit is not yet certified with the SU-1 and currently requires DoP when using the microRendu in NAA mode.

I will do my reviewer work tonight and over the weekend; i.e compare sq of DSD512 playback via I2S (NAA to SU-1 to Holo) vs USB (NAA to Holo).

Forehaven · March 30, 2017

That's great news Ted and Tim. But I need it to work with the Microrendu as my computer is down in the basement. But really great progress guys!

Thanks for all the work!

Chris

ted_b · March 30, 2017

Chris,

Yes, that is a function of SonicOrbiter. I'm sure we will get there soon. The SU-1 firmware would be needed, regardless.

Forehaven · March 30, 2017

I have no doubt you guys will get there Ted! (Right now, I'm not in any immed. hurry. I have 9 German Shepherd puppies occupying my front room, so I basically have no room for a proper speaker setup anyway. So you have 5-6 wks. to work this through! LOL!! )

Article: Holo Audio Spring Level 3 Kitsune Tuned Edition R2R DAC Review

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