SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[mutant_matt]

I presume that a very large number of people on this thread are indeed playing the multichannel files, as am I, but as already said, dedicated Mac/JRiver support is probably a better place to talk to people about your problem.

 

You might want to try converting one test DSF file into WAV and/or FLAC to see if that makes any difference.  IMO, the container (the .DSF/.WAV.FLAC) and sometimes the codec (the actual audio "inside" the container), can have a bearing on how the decoder processes the data to create the music (sometimes it can be anything in the chain that doesn't like sometime, including the player, the operating system, audio drivers, actual hardware (DAC or "soundcard").

 

I generally use VLC on Linux on my desktop and Kodi on Linux for my HTPC and multichannel works fine on both (both 4.0 and 5.1).  I haven't had to configure anything to make this work, other than to ensure that I "bitstream" audio in whatever format it already is, out of Kodi over HDMI to my Pre-Pro which does the decoding in my case.

 

HTH!

 

Cheers,

 

Matt.

[Tipo450s]

@Linefader ....Jriver uses the following channel mapping for surround sound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surround_sound ......the description is approx. 3/4 of the way down the article (Channel Identification)

[mlknez]

1 hour ago, Linefader said:

Is anybody else playing the multi-channel files? I have just configured JRiver (on a Mac) for use with an exaSound e38 DAC (according to the instructions on the exaSound Web site) and I have some difficulties with playing 5.1 channel DSFs.

1) Occasionally, I have audio dropouts, even for DSF-sources from the local harddisk (i.e. it's not a network latency problem). Should I fine-tune the JRiver buffering somehow?

2) I am also not sure, if I did the channel-to-speaker mapping correctly in the Audio Midi Setup, on the Mac. Of course, channel 1 is the left front speaker and channel 2 is the right front speaker - but what are the correct channel numbers for the center, the rear speakers and the subwoofer?

 

I use the e38 and jriver on Windows.  I do not have any issue.  I did not set up any special buffering.  The channel depends on which one you plugged into the dac channel number. generally 1. FL 2. FR 3. C 4.  Sub 5. Sur L 6. Sur R 7. Sur Back L 8. Sur Back R

[Tipo450s]

Try running a test on your PC: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=54396.0 ....anything less than 1000 score might be pushing it for multi-channel DSD.

[greynolds]

Can we please keep this thread focused on ripping?  Questions about playback or other manipulation of the ripped files should be in a different thread.

[HiRezGuy]

On 1/8/2018 at 9:49 PM, dharmabumstead said:

So here's a question I have failed to find an answer to:

 

Shouldn't I see the same MD5 checksum for an SACD ISO I've ripped using my Oppo BDP-105 and sacd_extract? Because I am not.

 

I can rip the exact same SACD three times in a row and run md5 on each ISO, and I will get a difference MD5 checksum every time.

 

Does sacd_extract put some sort of date/time stamp in the ISO itself? Are these ISOs bit perfect? What's going on?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Yes you should get the same file every time. If not, the disc is bad obviously. Try cleaning it; maybe even use pledge. 

 

Rips between ps3 and sacd_extract checkout fine — checksums are same. 

[HiRezGuy]

There have been some problems in the thread over the last 2 or so months, so I’m just getting around to providing colour that I wrote but never posted. 

 

• user was ripping Beethoven and two tracks ended up with the same exact name.  —— this is strange. Even with the infamous dacapo_kronos_holmgreen no metadata disc, sacd_extract still used track numbers. I’d check the path length first. I’d also check the target file name length - sacd_extract may chop it to conform to windows limitations thereby creating the same exact name. I got Shostakovich_no8_altus and it also doesn’t have metadata. No issue with track numbers being output, for example, in dsf extract mode. 

 

• User had a problem with rips over WiFi - very slow, thrashing almost. I can reproduce this. Verizon sucks and throughput is dependent on traffic (duh). Basically what happens is as the signal strength decreases, throughput decreases, and sacd_extract can seem to thrash. It’s not - the WiFi is the bottleneck. Now, this does present another issue however. Say you are ripping over WiFi, the signal begins to weaken, throughput comes down etc. If you run from the command line and redirect output, the frequency of the sacd_extract status messages can create logs that are bigger than the sacd image itself. What happens is the status continues to get output, maybe 1/sec, but the WiFi is so slow that the log build up to very large size. For this case WiFi throughput is down in the 0.n range - extremely low. A dying signal essentially. 

 

• Numbered folders. Saw that ted_b mentioned this after my most recent post 4-8 weeks ago. On win10 systems with the latest updates, sacd_extract should NOT use numbered folders. This was probably an sacd_extract bug whereby the program didn’t check for a folder before creating it. And the windows api that allows the file system access / manipulation probably had a bug too in that it was allowed to happen. Either way, if you keep your win10 system current, sacd_extract should not use numbered folders any more. Do it as I’ve documented in the sticky notes on p1 — Create a working folder and go from there. (I discovered the problem at the time of my last post as I extracted both 2ch and Mch in the same sacd_extract command invocation - the same folder was used and the 2ch file were overwritten by the mch files.)

[HiRezGuy]

Sorry for font on above. I see the replies as I travel and take notes on my iPhone. 

[Linefader]

19 hours ago, Tipo450s said:

@Linefader ....Jriver uses the following channel mapping for surround sound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surround_sound 

there is no channel 0 in Apple's Audio Midi Setup, here's what I have configured now:

This mapping is correct, as I can verify easily by clicking on the speakers and playing a test tone.

 

What is irritating me, is that the surround sound is still odd, when I am playing ripped SACDs (DSF) from JRiver:

Most of the vocals are coming from the left rear speaker - it almost sounds like a second center.

Swapping channel 3 and channel 5 does not help.

 

That's why I was in doubt if my channel mapping is wrong or if there is something misconfigured in JRiver.

However now, I rather suppose the tracks were not ripped accurately.

 

I used Ted's script with the --mch-tracks and --output dsf option and all surround recordings sound somehow spatially displaced when I am playing them in JRiver on my Mac with the exaSound e38 DAC (while the original SACDs sound great in surround with the same Amp + Speakers)

 

If the files were ripped incorrectly, this would of course also explain the occasional dropouts.

 

My JRiver benchmarks look like this:

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
    Single-threaded integer math... 4.366 seconds
    Single-threaded floating point math... 2.406 seconds
    Multi-threaded integer math... 2.218 seconds
    Multi-threaded mixed math... 1.196 seconds
Score: 1865

Running 'Image' benchmark...
    Image creation / destruction... 0.775 seconds
    Flood filling... 0.429 seconds
    Direct copying... 1.464 seconds
    Small renders... 1.039 seconds
    Bilinear rendering... 1.335 seconds
    Bicubic rendering... 0.706 seconds
Score: 3827

Running 'Database' benchmark...
    Create database... 0.258 seconds
    Populate database... 1.232 seconds
    Save database... 0.181 seconds
    Reload database... 0.083 seconds
    Search database... 1.346 seconds
    Sort database... 0.825 seconds
    Group database... 0.757 seconds
Score: 4592

JRMark (version 23.0.83 x64): 3428

 

This should be sufficient computing power for playing multi-channel DSD, shouldn't it?

 

@mlknez I will try if it changes anything, when I connect my wife's Windows laptop and run JRiver from there.

 

If it doesn't get better on Windows, can we compare the file sizes and checksums of some of our DSF files?

 

What music do you have? My SACD collection is mostly Pop/Rock (Pink Floyd, Depeche Mode, Kraftwerk, David Bowie, Dire Straits, Peter Gabriel etc.)

[mutant_matt]

I would try converting them to another format to see if it makes any difference (if that works, then you know the source files are not the problem (I'd doubt they are anyway):

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/28569-sacd-ripping-using-an-oppo-or-pioneer-yes-its-true/?do=findComment&comment=771119

 

I use the Java dsd2flac to do the conversion, no problems playing the multichannel end result.

 

HTH!

[Tipo450s]

@Linefader ....good score so I don't think it's a PC issue ...this may help: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?11366-Multi-Channel-RME-With-Jriver

[Fitzcaraldo215]

10 hours ago, Linefader said:

there is no channel 0 in Apple's Audio Midi Setup, here's what I have configured now:

This mapping is correct, as I can verify easily by clicking on the speakers and playing a test tone.

 

What is irritating me, is that the surround sound is still odd, when I am playing ripped SACDs (DSF) from JRiver:

Most of the vocals are coming from the left rear speaker - it almost sounds like a second center.

Swapping channel 3 and channel 5 does not help.

 

That's why I was in doubt if my channel mapping is wrong or if there is something misconfigured in JRiver.

However now, I rather suppose the tracks were not ripped accurately.

 

I used Ted's script with the --mch-tracks and --output dsf option and all surround recordings sound somehow spatially displaced when I am playing them in JRiver on my Mac with the exaSound e38 DAC (while the original SACDs sound great in surround with the same Amp + Speakers)

 

If the files were ripped incorrectly, this would of course also explain the occasional dropouts.

 

My JRiver benchmarks look like this:

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
    Single-threaded integer math... 4.366 seconds
    Single-threaded floating point math... 2.406 seconds
    Multi-threaded integer math... 2.218 seconds
    Multi-threaded mixed math... 1.196 seconds
Score: 1865

Running 'Image' benchmark...
    Image creation / destruction... 0.775 seconds
    Flood filling... 0.429 seconds
    Direct copying... 1.464 seconds
    Small renders... 1.039 seconds
    Bilinear rendering... 1.335 seconds
    Bicubic rendering... 0.706 seconds
Score: 3827

Running 'Database' benchmark...
    Create database... 0.258 seconds
    Populate database... 1.232 seconds
    Save database... 0.181 seconds
    Reload database... 0.083 seconds
    Search database... 1.346 seconds
    Sort database... 0.825 seconds
    Group database... 0.757 seconds
Score: 4592

JRMark (version 23.0.83 x64): 3428

 

This should be sufficient computing power for playing multi-channel DSD, shouldn't it?

 

@mlknez I will try if it changes anything, when I connect my wife's Windows laptop and run JRiver from there.

 

If it doesn't get better on Windows, can we compare the file sizes and checksums of some of our DSF files?

 

What music do you have? My SACD collection is mostly Pop/Rock (Pink Floyd, Depeche Mode, Kraftwerk, David Bowie, Dire Straits, Peter Gabriel etc.)

We are OT here.  But, possibly the issue might be using Source Number of Channels as the output parameter in JRiver's DSP Studio.  That causes channel assignment problems between 5.0 and 5.1 SACDs.  Use just 5.1 instead.

 

But, by all means, seek further help at the JRiver site.

[sebassie]

Maybe this has been discussed earlier. It is impossible to go through all the pages to find out.

I have been ripping SACD’s using a Pioneer 170 without any problems for a long time. 

Since upgrading to High Sierra 10.13.3 iso2dsd v.6 refuses to run. I have the latest version of Java installed.

Could someone guide me please to solve this problem?

On an old mac mini running OSX Yosemite I encounter no problem.

[sebassie]

Problem has been solved. After upgrading to High Sierra 10.13.3 iso2dsd_gui.jar was no longer associated with jar launcher. Everything is running fine now:-)

[captainbrent]

8 minutes ago, sebassie said:

Problem has been solved. After upgrading to High Sierra 10.13.3 iso2dsd_gui.jar was no longer associated with jar launcher. Everything is running fine now:-)

What did you do to solve the problem?

[sebassie]

3 minutes ago, captainbrent said:

What did you do to solve the problem?

When I right-clicked on the iso2dsd_gui.jar file and selected 'open with' it was associated (default) with 'Archive Utility'. I changed that to 'Jar launcher'. That's all.

[captainbrent]

34 minutes ago, sebassie said:

When I right-clicked on the iso2dsd_gui.jar file and selected 'open with' it was associated (default) with 'Archive Utility'. I changed that to 'Jar launcher'. That's all.

Ah, ok, simple...thanks!

[tdacquisto]

I made a quick video of me ripping a SACD.

 

 

[Waynefi]

Thanks for the video.

 

Wayne

[Phthalocyanine]

@ tdacquisto

 

What's the rest of the equipment in your audio rack and what make are those good-looking stand-mount speakers?

[tdacquisto]

13 hours ago, Phthalocyanine said:

@ tdacquisto

 

What's the rest of the equipment in your audio rack and what make are those good-looking stand-mount speakers?

Anthem Statement D2V processor

Wyred4Sound MC500 (5 channels @ 500W each - class D)

Speakers are KEF R300 on Custom Designs FS104 stands (sand filled middle tube)

KEF R400B sub..  

Synology DS1515+ NAS which has 12TB on it.. 80% filled with music and movies.

Sony PS3, which I don't use much anymore.

Tivo Roamio OTA

Panamax power conditioner.

 

KEF center and some yamaha surrounds finish up the HT speakers..  not a huge HT guy.. 

[Waynefi]

All, I would really like to try this, using my 105D and Win10 PC. Is there somewhere amongst all this that is the current way to go and file to get ? They are both Ethernet connected on the same network if that matters.

[Tipo450s]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fsigs8b3m24ld56/AACV2LC2EHfEdiS41fQmlKPxa?dl=0

[Waynefi]

5 hours ago, Tipo450s said:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fsigs8b3m24ld56/AACV2LC2EHfEdiS41fQmlKPxa?dl=0

Great, thanks, I printed and read it and kept a copy.

[Waynefi]

COOL !!! I, as a virtual computer wan-a-bee got this to work !   So, thanks to those who thought of this and those who started and participated in this thread. Most recently, tdacquisto for the video and Tipo450s for the link with instruction sheet. I had some issues with getting it to work at first, and I believe the problem was related not ever using dropbox. I could not cleanly download and extract the files for Autoscript, so I went back and forth a few times with the deleting and downloading and got it right. Tried playing the SACD I ripped quickly late last night, JRiver found it right away, and it worked and sounded fine.

 

So I will see where I go with this. Now that I have sold off my VPI TT and related stuff(still more to go), I am sticking with this digital system . I do not know how much I will rip, as one of the reasons I bought the Complete Modwright Tube mods for my 105D, was to play discs, I will continue. I am also using the 105D USB DAC for now, which also sounds fine with the mods.

 

Still wondering how much extra wear and tear ripping discs on the OPPO does to the machine ??

 

Thanks again,

 

Wayne

 

PS: I still find this amazing how it works !!!