Streamers vs PC

[pipis2010]

AFIS/AFI-USB or Mutec MC 3 + USB seem to be at least equal (if not better) and that for about 900,- dollars less.

 

Yeah, I think a good converter/clock can make a difference, although I don't know if it's audible difference the higher we go in DACs, ie BADA RS, DaVinci DAC, dCs, Gryphon, etc, etc...

 

Anyone have any feedback on this?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[rossb]

I have just done the streamer vs PC comparison.

 

I have a dedicated PC which I use as a music server. It has an i5 3570k processor, 8GB of RAM, a fanless 400w seasonic PSU, a 3TB hard drive and 120GB SSD, no GPU and runs Windows 10, using JRMC and Tidal for playback. I also use a Yellowtec PUC2 USB/SPDIF interface powered by a Teddy Pardo PSU. The PC is housed in a Fractal Node 304 case and all fans run below 500rpm and are inaudible.

 

I recently bought an Auralic Aries - the full version with femtoclocks and linear PSU - and stream over ethernet from a server in a different part of the house.

 

After comparing the two, the PC wins. The PC sounds denser, more colourful, more detailed, sweeter, with blacker backgrounds and more depth. The differences are small, but noticeable.

 

But note that this is a comparison of one PC against one specific streamer. I have also recently tried using a small, fanless NUC type of PC, streaming over ethernet, but using the same USB converter. I tried this because I wanted to save space on my rack (same reason I tried the streamer). It sounded duller and less colourful than the more powerful PC, so I went back to the PC. Based on my recollection, I think the streamer sounds marginally better than the NUC, although I haven't done the comparison directly.

 

The takeout from this is that it is possible to put together a PC based system that sounds noticeably better than a highly regarded streamer such as the Auralic Aries. Mine does, and it has no special "audiophile" components, other than the linear PSU powered USB/SPDIF interface.

[tranz]

I had a similar experience with a fully tweaked Mac Mini, Ifi and Berkeley USB cleaning solutions and it beat the Aries. Not by all that much mind you! Now with other options (Hegel, sonore, Naim, Linn, MSB, etc.) out there you will have to audition to listen whether it makes a difference to you. I know I am sounding repetitive but I will NEVER go back to USB.

[davide256]

I have just done the streamer vs PC comparison.

 

I have a dedicated PC which I use as a music server. It has an i5 3570k processor, 8GB of RAM, a fanless 400w seasonic PSU, a 3TB hard drive and 120GB SSD, no GPU and runs Windows 10, using JRMC and Tidal for playback. I also use a Yellowtec PUC2 USB/SPDIF interface powered by a Teddy Pardo PSU. The PC is housed in a Fractal Node 304 case and all fans run below 500rpm and are inaudible.

 

I recently bought an Auralic Aries - the full version with femtoclocks and linear PSU - and stream over ethernet from a server in a different part of the house.

 

After comparing the two, the PC wins. The PC sounds denser, more colourful, more detailed, sweeter, with blacker backgrounds and more depth. The differences are small, but noticeable.

 

But note that this is a comparison of one PC against one specific streamer. I have also recently tried using a small, fanless NUC type of PC, streaming over ethernet, but using the same USB converter. I tried this because I wanted to save space on my rack (same reason I tried the streamer). It sounded duller and less colourful than the more powerful PC, so I went back to the PC. Based on my recollection, I think the streamer sounds marginally better than the NUC, although I haven't done the comparison directly.

 

The takeout from this is that it is possible to put together a PC based system that sounds noticeably better than a highly regarded streamer such as the Auralic Aries. Mine does, and it has no special "audiophile" components, other than the linear PSU powered USB/SPDIF interface.

 

For this to have any usefulness to others please identify the system components used for audition... you didn't even identify what DAC was used...review 101 etiquette

[rossb]

It wasn't a review, but thanks for the lesson in etiquette.

[Melvin]

It wasn't a review, but thanks for the lesson in etiquette.

 

FWIW rossb, IMO your post was terrific and I would love for you to elaborate a bit more.

[JW Audio]

FWIW rossb, IMO your post was terrific and I would love for you to elaborate a bit more.

 

Now THIS my friends is etiquette.

[rossb]

FWIW rossb, IMO your post was terrific and I would love for you to elaborate a bit more.

 

 

Thank you. What would you like to know?

[pipis2010]

I have just done the streamer vs PC comparison.

 

I have a dedicated PC which I use as a music server. It has an i5 3570k processor, 8GB of RAM, a fanless 400w seasonic PSU, a 3TB hard drive and 120GB SSD, no GPU and runs Windows 10, using JRMC and Tidal for playback. I also use a Yellowtec PUC2 USB/SPDIF interface powered by a Teddy Pardo PSU. The PC is housed in a Fractal Node 304 case and all fans run below 500rpm and are inaudible.

 

I recently bought an Auralic Aries - the full version with femtoclocks and linear PSU - and stream over ethernet from a server in a different part of the house.

 

After comparing the two, the PC wins. The PC sounds denser, more colourful, more detailed, sweeter, with blacker backgrounds and more depth. The differences are small, but noticeable.

 

But note that this is a comparison of one PC against one specific streamer. I have also recently tried using a small, fanless NUC type of PC, streaming over ethernet, but using the same USB converter. I tried this because I wanted to save space on my rack (same reason I tried the streamer). It sounded duller and less colourful than the more powerful PC, so I went back to the PC. Based on my recollection, I think the streamer sounds marginally better than the NUC, although I haven't done the comparison directly.

 

The takeout from this is that it is possible to put together a PC based system that sounds noticeably better than a highly regarded streamer such as the Auralic Aries. Mine does, and it has no special "audiophile" components, other than the linear PSU powered USB/SPDIF interface.

 

Thank you my friend, that was very informative indeed!! Imagine what would happen if you had also installed a special USB card in there from which to extract the audio data (PPA, JCAT, Sotm, etc).

 

I bet that a large part of the difference could be down to the Yellowtec+PSU combo, which sounds logical (and to a lesser degree to the Win 10+JRMC combo) - maybe or maybe not? Personally I am not entirely convinced of the huge difference that software makes, so I am a bit skeptical (mind you, I have transitioned to a Daphile headless OS).

 

After your comments, I am more and more convinced how essential is a good spdif converter...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[jb5200]

Hey Guys,

 

I have been following this thread b/c I have the same interests as everyone else and am looking for recommendations. My setup right now is the following:

 

-Nice powerful Lenovo Y510P gaming (which I do none) laptop - i7, w8.1, 8gb ram, 1tb hdd

-Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro for the Audyssey XT32 room correction with dual subs

-ATI 6002 amp

-Scansonic MB2.5 speakers (surprisingly very good sound for what I paid - good value)

 

I store all of my music/movie files on a 15TB server with W7 and just use the laptop with JRiver MC20 as the player with the app to control it. I have the laptop connected to the Marantz via HDMI (I know not the best option) for convenience b/c of the movie playback with the HD audio codecs.

 

I now have a separate player for the movies so I don't necessarily need to use HDMI for the audio, so I would like to focus on audio. I read a lot of the reviews of the streamers like Aurender, Auarlic, Linn, etc. on how they improve the sound and know that I should take those with a grain of salt, they have their merits for those that choose to go that route.

 

I want something that will increase my audio SQ while using the same setup - Files from server, JRMC20, Marantz but would replace the laptop with streamer, C.A.P.S., USB-SPDIF converter or something of that sort but would like to try to keep cost down as much as possible to under $1000 if possible (cost of the laptop). I would be interested in purchasing something used as well but not really sure what to get - again want to keep the same main setup - Files from server, JRMC, and Marantz.

 

Thanks

[davide256]

Thank you my friend, that was very informative indeed!! Imagine what would happen if you had also installed a special USB card in there from which to extract the audio data (PPA, JCAT, Sotm, etc).

 

I bet that a large part of the difference could be down to the Yellowtec+PSU combo, which sounds logical (and to a lesser degree to the Win 10+JRMC combo) - maybe or maybe not? Personally I am not entirely convinced of the huge difference that software makes, so I am a bit skeptical (mind you, I have transitioned to a Daphile headless OS).

 

After your comments, I am more and more convinced how essential is a good spdif converter...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

I no longer use an SPDIF converter as even with the REGEN its inferior to the coax output of the Aries mini feeding my DAC for detail and timbre resolution. You will find recent threads on CA questioning the future of asynch USB.

[Melvin]

Now THIS my friends is etiquette.

 

Nice of you to say JW Audio, however, my forum etiquette was somewhat lacking earlier in this thread. I suppose we all need a pass once in a while.

 

Thank you. What would you like to know?

 

While you've shared quite a bit already, like davide256, I was hoping for a more complete description of your gear (i.e., DAC, loudspeakers, amp, preamp). I checked your profile for just this info but found nothing. Care to share a bit more?

[ElviaCaprice]

jb5200, you did good with your current setup. A C.A.P.S. setup will cost you at least 2k with proper power supply to get an efficient HTTP with the best possible audio. But then the problem will be the Marantz as the weak point in the chain.

 

The problem with a specialty streamer (like Aurender, Auarlic or Linn) is that they are not setup to be versatile as an HTPC from a single media player like JRiver. So they are definitely out as a choice for myself. Besides, I hate being boxed in from tinkering with an all in one streaming component.

 

You could go low power and pick up an embedded motherboard setup with built in AC/DC power. I would go this route if you want to save $$ and keep the Marantz. Spend a little more for a good PCIe USB card. I would recommend this motherboard or one similar (depending on your powering preference) for a low power HTPC, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157653

Then pick up a HDPlex LPSU power supply to power the motherboard and the USB PCIe card. Use a fanless case, cheap one with a PCIe expansion slot. Could do it all for under 1k.

 

The good thing would be if you decide to upgrade your entire system (get rid of the Marantz) in the future, you can use the LPSU and USB card (the most expensive items) on a future build.

 

[JW Audio]

Deleted

[JW Audio]

Nice of you to say JW Audio, however, my forum etiquette was somewhat lacking earlier in this thread. I suppose we all need a pass once in a while.

 

 

 

While you've shared quite a bit already, like davide256, I was hoping for a more complete description of your gear (i.e., DAC, loudspeakers, amp, preamp). I checked your profile for just this info but found nothing. Care to share a bit more?

 

Melvin, I went back and looked at your previous post here and can only say... Everybody deserves forgiveness and a second chance.

[jb5200]

Thanks ElviaCaprice,

 

So you think the CAPS is the way to go to get the best possible sound. I would like to keep the Marantz like I said b/c I use the Audyssey XT32 room correction with my two subs b/c my room is terrible. Which CAPS would be the one and then which connection would I use to the Marantz?

 

I don't mind spending a little more if it means I would get a significant increase in SQ and if I could find one used would be the best. I'm very new to computer audio but I have a little experience with computer internals - changing out drives, video cards, etc. but nothing major. With a little help I could probably figure it out.

 

The reason for the start of this interest was I heard my speakers a few different times at different venues and I cannot get mine to sound anywhere near those - I know the rooms are different with different electronics but I feel I have decent equipment and I should be able to get them sound sound similar. So that's what leads me to believe it's the source being different b/c all of those other ones were using expensive streamers.

[tboooe]

Why not try the Sonore Sonicorbiter? This will allow you to keep JRiver and your server but remove the laptop completely. Price is very nice as well. This will allow you to see if getting dedicated will be an improvement from your laptop.

 

Hey Guys,

 

I have been following this thread b/c I have the same interests as everyone else and am looking for recommendations. My setup right now is the following:

 

-Nice powerful Lenovo Y510P gaming (which I do none) laptop - i7, w8.1, 8gb ram, 1tb hdd

-Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro for the Audyssey XT32 room correction with dual subs

-ATI 6002 amp

-Scansonic MB2.5 speakers (surprisingly very good sound for what I paid - good value)

 

I store all of my music/movie files on a 15TB server with W7 and just use the laptop with JRiver MC20 as the player with the app to control it. I have the laptop connected to the Marantz via HDMI (I know not the best option) for convenience b/c of the movie playback with the HD audio codecs.

 

I now have a separate player for the movies so I don't necessarily need to use HDMI for the audio, so I would like to focus on audio. I read a lot of the reviews of the streamers like Aurender, Auarlic, Linn, etc. on how they improve the sound and know that I should take those with a grain of salt, they have their merits for those that choose to go that route.

 

I want something that will increase my audio SQ while using the same setup - Files from server, JRMC20, Marantz but would replace the laptop with streamer, C.A.P.S., USB-SPDIF converter or something of that sort but would like to try to keep cost down as much as possible to under $1000 if possible (cost of the laptop). I would be interested in purchasing something used as well but not really sure what to get - again want to keep the same main setup - Files from server, JRMC, and Marantz.

 

Thanks

[ElviaCaprice]

Thanks ElviaCaprice,

 

So you think the CAPS is the way to go to get the best possible sound. I would like to keep the Marantz like I said b/c I use the Audyssey XT32 room correction with my two subs b/c my room is terrible. Which CAPS would be the one and then which connection would I use to the Marantz?

 

 

 

I don't mind spending a little more if it means I would get a significant increase in SQ and if I could find one used would be the best. I'm very new to computer audio but I have a little experience with computer internals - changing out drives, video cards, etc. but nothing major. With a little help I could probably figure it out.

 

The reason for the start of this interest was I heard my speakers a few different times at different venues and I cannot get mine to sound anywhere near those - I know the rooms are different with different electronics but I feel I have decent equipment and I should be able to get them sound sound similar. So that's what leads me to believe it's the source being different b/c all of those other ones were using expensive streamers.

 

I forgot you don't need the USB or capable of with the Marantz. Forget my suggestion on the USB PCIe card. You don't need it. I would do your own embedded motherboard build and continue with the HDMI feed to the Marantz. The key is to use a clean power supply for the motherboard. This will end up costing you no more than $500.

 

NOTE: I don't think it pays to upgrade to some bigger $$$ streamer if your going to keep the Marantz. If your going to upgrade this part of the chain in the future, then yeah go for it. But I think with the low power solution embedded mother board your going to get a more than adequate streamer for your Marantz and still have HTPC ability via HDMI. Use JRiver and Windows 10 optimized.

[Cebolla]

Hey Guys,

 

I have been following this thread b/c I have the same interests as everyone else and am looking for recommendations. My setup right now is the following:

 

-Nice powerful Lenovo Y510P gaming (which I do none) laptop - i7, w8.1, 8gb ram, 1tb hdd

-Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro for the Audyssey XT32 room correction with dual subs

-ATI 6002 amp

-Scansonic MB2.5 speakers (surprisingly very good sound for what I paid - good value)

 

I store all of my music/movie files on a 15TB server with W7 and just use the laptop with JRiver MC20 as the player with the app to control it. I have the laptop connected to the Marantz via HDMI (I know not the best option) for convenience b/c of the movie playback with the HD audio codecs.

 

I now have a separate player for the movies so I don't necessarily need to use HDMI for the audio, so I would like to focus on audio. I read a lot of the reviews of the streamers like Aurender, Auarlic, Linn, etc. on how they improve the sound and know that I should take those with a grain of salt, they have their merits for those that choose to go that route.

 

I want something that will increase my audio SQ while using the same setup - Files from server, JRMC20, Marantz but would replace the laptop with streamer, C.A.P.S., USB-SPDIF converter or something of that sort but would like to try to keep cost down as much as possible to under $1000 if possible (cost of the laptop). I would be interested in purchasing something used as well but not really sure what to get - again want to keep the same main setup - Files from server, JRMC, and Marantz.

 

Thanks

The Marantz AV8801 already has network streaming capabilities, via UPnP/DLNA. So it has its own built-in network audio file decoder/player and the ideal situation of an internal connection to its own DAC. All this comes at no extra cost, well apart from connecting it to your network, if it isn't already!

 

You can still use the JRiver Media Center to manage your music library. What you won't be using it for is the actual music playback, as that will now be the Marantz's job. Instead you would use JRMC's built-in UPnP control point to control the network file streaming playback of the Marantz, using the music files supplied by JRMC's built-in UPnP/DLNA media server. Of course you can still use JRiver's remote control app on a handheld device to control JRiver remotely, if you don't want to use JRiver at the computer. Also, since you'll no longer be using JRiver for music playback, you've now got the option of installing JRiver on the W7 server box, with the benefit of direct access to the storage drive containing the music files plus taking the laptop out of your music system altogether.

 

Now compare using the Marantz AV8801 as a UPnP/DLNA network audio player with its built-in DAC, to the lottery of using the Marantz as an external DAC tethered to a computer running music player software. Not forgetting the cost of replacing your laptop (currently the computer being used this way) for a 'better' one such as the C.A.P.S. with the USB-SPDIF convertor.

 

Arguably the only way you may get any SQ quality improvement is if you replace the Marantz's DAC with a 'better' DAC, be that attached to a computer or a separate network audio player, or even use a separate network audio player with that 'better' DAC already built-in.

[jb5200]

ElviaCaprice,

 

That would really be the ticket! And I apologize in advance for my newbie questions but like I said I am just getting into this sorta thing. I forgot to mention that my server is in a different room and the laptop is in my audio cabinet that doesn't have a lot of room for a full sized HTPC so that's why I use the laptop as the player. I could fit a small case with a monitor and that's prolly about it!

 

Could I trouble you in suggesting/showing me a list of possible components - case, power supply, the embedded motherboard (not sure what that is), soundcard, SS hard drive, video card, etc. that I would need to build this (I'm a plug and play type of person) and I think this where I will start.

 

Again, I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and help as to this begins my journey into a wonderful hobby!

[firedog]

Why not try the Sonore Sonicorbiter? This will allow you to keep JRiver and your server but remove the laptop completely. Price is very nice as well. This will allow you to see if getting dedicated will be an improvement from your laptop.

 

+1

Something like the Sonic Orbiter or the upcoming microRendu works over the network and functions as an ethernet to USB converter and playback device between your server and your Marantz. Helps isolate your noisy server from playback output. My experience is that using some kind of improved power supply with such units makes a difference in SQ. If you decide to go this route the Sonore people will give you straight up advice without a hard sell. You could still use the laptop just as a control point, or use a phone/tablet for JRiver.

[Cebolla]

Or at least just try the Marantz's own capabilites as the network streamer, as an external one may not be necessary, especially if that external streamer uses the Marantz as a DAC.

[ElviaCaprice]

The Marantz AV8801 already has network streaming capabilities, via UPnP/DLNA. So it has its own built-in network audio file decoder/player and the ideal situation of an internal connection to its own DAC. All this comes at no extra cost, well apart from connecting it to your network, if it isn't already!

 

You can still use the JRiver Media Center to manage your music library. What you won't be using it for is the actual music playback, as that will now be the Marantz's job. Instead you would use JRMC's built-in UPnP control point to control the network file streaming playback of the Marantz, using the music files supplied by JRMC's built-in UPnP/DLNA media server. Of course you can still use JRiver's remote control app on a handheld device to control JRiver remotely, if you don't want to use JRiver at the computer. Also, since you'll no longer be using JRiver for music playback, you've now got the option of installing JRiver on the W7 server box, with the benefit of direct access to the storage drive containing the music files plus taking the laptop out of your music system altogether.

 

Now compare using the Marantz AV8801 as a UPnP/DLNA network audio player with its built-in DAC, to the lottery of using the Marantz as an external DAC tethered to a computer running music player software. Not forgetting the cost of replacing your laptop (currently the computer being used this way) for a 'better' one such as the C.A.P.S. with the USB-SPDIF convertor.

 

Arguably the only way you may get any SQ quality improvement is if you replace the Marantz's DAC with a 'better' DAC, be that attached to a computer or a separate network audio player, or even use a separate network audio player with that 'better' DAC already built-in.

 

 

You should try this first as suggested by Cebolla. You really have all the components necessary. So no extra cost, just some software tinkering.

 

If you don't like the results or Marantz is inadequate in this implementation, come back and open a new thread on making a PC streamer build for your system needs.

[davide256]

Hey Guys,

 

I have been following this thread b/c I have the same interests as everyone else and am looking for recommendations. My setup right now is the following:

 

-Nice powerful Lenovo Y510P gaming (which I do none) laptop - i7, w8.1, 8gb ram, 1tb hdd

-Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro for the Audyssey XT32 room correction with dual subs

-ATI 6002 amp

-Scansonic MB2.5 speakers (surprisingly very good sound for what I paid - good value)

 

I store all of my music/movie files on a 15TB server with W7 and just use the laptop with JRiver MC20 as the player with the app to control it. I have the laptop connected to the Marantz via HDMI (I know not the best option) for convenience b/c of the movie playback with the HD audio codecs.

 

I now have a separate player for the movies so I don't necessarily need to use HDMI for the audio, so I would like to focus on audio. I read a lot of the reviews of the streamers like Aurender, Auarlic, Linn, etc. on how they improve the sound and know that I should take those with a grain of salt, they have their merits for those that choose to go that route.

 

I want something that will increase my audio SQ while using the same setup - Files from server, JRMC20, Marantz but would replace the laptop with streamer, C.A.P.S., USB-SPDIF converter or something of that sort but would like to try to keep cost down as much as possible to under $1000 if possible (cost of the laptop). I would be interested in purchasing something used as well but not really sure what to get - again want to keep the same main setup - Files from server, JRMC, and Marantz.

 

Thanks

 

It's all about how far you want to go for expense vs matching what your system can actually do. My suggestion would be stay put with the system you have and buy a good headphone system to give you a comparison point on what you are missing...An iFi Micro headphone amp and a Hifiman HE400S will set you back $800 and give you a taste of what an audiophile level of performance can be. You won't be able to hear a like significant difference in the system you have without a much larger expenditure

[tranz]

You should try this first as suggested by Cebolla. You really have all the components necessary. So no extra cost, just some software tinkering.

 

If you don't like the results or Marantz is inadequate in this implementation, come back and open a new thread on making a PC streamer build for your system needs.

 

+1

 

I think you might be pleasantly surprised with Marantz's streaming quality.