The $3K all in exercize.

[Ron Scubadiver]

Fun thread and it reflects my view that it is not necessary to spend huge amounts to get great sound.  It's where I am now.

LS50 $1300

Grace M9xx, refurbished $280

Intel Nuc 5 PPYH $200 (had a leftover windoze license and other bits)

4 tb external drive $100

Generic stands $100

25 lb of lead shot $30

14 ga solid copper speaker wires $15

leftover cables and other bits...

65" LED TV  $700

That leaves $300...

[Ron Scubadiver]

3 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

That seems very low end. I doubt I would continue to be an audiophile if I was stuck with a system like that forever.

Your kindness overwhelms me.

[Ron Scubadiver]

2 hours ago, Rexp said:

Haha, nice come back, have to agree with gutb tho, pc>usb>dac is unlikely to sound good. @fas42 what is your suggestion?

How would you know, you haven't heard it.  Besides, PC>USB>DAC is a pretty standard setup used by nearly all professional reviewers.  Are you one of these guys who thinks streaming is the only way to go?

[Ron Scubadiver]

13 minutes ago, Rexp said:

I dont know, hence use of the word 'unlikely'.  Heard hundreds of similar set ups though and they sound nothing like music to me.

What sounds like music to you?  You heard "hundreds" because that's what nearly everyone uses.  I think you are pulling my leg.  

[Ron Scubadiver]

14 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said:

 

Don't have a clue how poorly recorded pop/rock/rap will sound on this setup, nor do I care how boring "audiophile" dreck like Diana Krall (today's Amanda McBroom? lol) will sound, since she is talentless as a singer and as a pianist.  Ella Fitzgerald, however, sounds great!

I must like drek.  FWIW, Diana Krall is one of the best sellers on Amazon.  I love Ella too.

[Ron Scubadiver]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

a couple of the trolls are after you, Ron

 

you might want to test if galv. isolation helps with your setup

 

the only real issue with great sound for $3,000 is in getting the very low bass

Yeah buddy, the trolls are feeding.  I am part way on the power supply for the DAC.  A Grace M9xx has a second USB 1.5 amp input so the power comes from a Samsung phone charger and not the computer.  I also tested it with iPad power supply, but couldn't detect the difference.  Anyway, it's not getting 5v off the computer.  Low bass isn't going to happen with LS50's.  I am using 3db of boost @ 43hz and a 2 octave bandwidth to approximate the frequency response of an LS50w in its default mode.  I suspect those who claim great superiority for the LS50w are hearing the bass.  Differences in frequency response are the easiest thing to detect.

 

Those who have spent a lot on their systems don't want to hear that it can be done for less.

[Ron Scubadiver]

@Hugo9000  I hear you.  Buying gear becomes an obsession for some.  The very existence of extremely expensive gear makes some feel their gear is inadequate.  A DAC chip which costs a couple of bucks can't possibly be as good as a far more expensive custom FPGA and a resistor array.  So it goes.

 

Virtually all kinds of electronics have become so inexpensive over the years but Audiophiles persist with old technologies.  They old ones are not bad technologies, but they are expensive.   New technologies like Class D amps are excellent and offer amazing bang for the buck.

 

Anyone who wants to can buy whatever they can somehow swing.  It's not my money they are spending.  However, some of them could use a lesson in manners and don't need to be so closed minded.

[Ron Scubadiver]

6 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

That system is "very entry level".

 

The Grace M9xx sucks — I base that assessment on the topology:

 

 

No real power supply.

No critical component isolation.

Junk IC-based output stage.

Digital volume control.

Essentially a toy DAC.

 

My assessment of the LS50:

16 lbs class D mini monitors, not for audiophiles. More for millennials in a near field configuration, bedroom systems, etc.

 

$3k is tough, but that doesn’t mean you have to recommend crap.

Sucks?  You have a lot of nerve to be recommending garbage from China which might last a month.  You must be the only person in the world who has such a low opinion of the LS50's.  Who gives you the right to be on the attack?

[Ron Scubadiver]

6 hours ago, GUTB said:

Look, here's the thing. Here's a toy DAC (the M9xx):

 

 

Here is a real DAC (Chinese one I linked):

 

 

The toy is the lower photo.  If it breaks you can throw it out.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/grace-design-m9xx-dac/

 

[Ron Scubadiver]

@GUTB  I looked at the photo of your system.  It's gear I wouldn't mind having, but I don't have the desire to spend that much for the small improvement it would provide.  In the end, it's just a couple of bookshelf speakers with all their limitations.  In fact the LS50's are vastly superior and there are tons of reviews out there to prove it.  You would be better off if you had a pair.

 

Your room is tiny, so I can see why you can't utilize a decent pair of full range speakers.  I'm so sorry you are stuck with that space.

 

I am not cheap, tight or poor.  However, my house and most everything in it was destroyed by flooding from Hurricane Harvey last August.  We just bought another house which used up a chunk of our resources.  Furniture is being replaced bit by bit, so I will just have to limp forward with my toy DAC and totally unacceptable Class D amp until that process runs it's course.  Those components were designed for pro audio, and those guys obviously must be deaf from making music all day long.

 

So, after what I have been through since last August, I really don't appreciate how I am being treated.

[Ron Scubadiver]

2 minutes ago, davide256 said:

 

Bias blinds us to the defects of the one we are with....

My bias, the bias of Absolute Sound or the bias of those who push Chi-Fi?  Absolute sound also put the Grace M9xx in their recommended list of sub $1000 DAC's.  I probably would not have bought one for $500, but I only had to pay $280.

 

There is a long thread in one of the headphone forums with many satisfied users.  I guess they are all biased too.  I guess you support all the trolling going around here.

 

[Ron Scubadiver]

23 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Your correspondent makes outrageous statements his stock in trade. As you have very unfortunately found out, there are much more important things in life to be concerned with.  So if you don't worry about what your correspondent thinks, rather than being outraged and engaging with him (familiar turf for him on which he is quite happy), your life will be simpler and more pleasant.

Good advice.

[Ron Scubadiver]

18 minutes ago, davide256 said:

I have both MG 1.7's and LS50's.  You can't build as good a system under $3k with the MG 1.7s as  you can with the LS50's because they require a very good

amplifier. I doubt I'll put the 1.7's back into play until I'm ready to spend over $4k on new amplifiers

I like Maggies, but probably don't have enough room for them.  Some have had good results with Crown XLS2 amps.  You could get an XLS 2002 from any pro audio outlet which allows returns, and see what happens.  

[Ron Scubadiver]

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

Maggie 3.7's have a SMALLER acoustical 'footprint' than the 1.7's - that is b/c of the different technology used.  Call up Wendell if you don't trust me.

 

You might however want to think about how easily you can load up and evacuate your HiFi system (or at least the stored music) the next time a flood hits.

 

I'm sorry for your loss, but NoLa residents had it worse, small consolation I know...

 

also, it's best to regard Gutb as a source of humor...

- the only real damage he does is to new members who need help, not people who have been on here a while

I think you meant to quote one of my posts.  GUTB is confused.

[Ron Scubadiver]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

 

The passive LS50's aren't Zu Druids but they work for the price point/ the size environment they are designed for, a bedroom or a typical apartment sized living room and allow freedom of choice in system selection.  The active LS50's  design looks like "forklift upgrade" to me for any future upgrade... not the best choice for an audio hobbyist. More for the kind of buyer that gravitated to B&O systems years ago.

 

LS50's and most smaller speakers work best in smaller rooms.  They their maximum output will not fill larger rooms and they benefit greatly from room effect boosting bass.  In another thread here people were very enthusiastic about the LS50w as is John Darko.  My take is most of the improvement is from boosting the bass, after having tried it myself. I don't see trading for the LS50w to be a worthwhile idea either.

 

I was stuck in an apartment for 7 months.  The living room opened into the kitchen and dining areas, so it wasn't so small.  Right now I have them in a finished attic bedroom which is 13.5'x18 which opens into a 15'x5' hallway.  The ceiling is 9' in the center and 6' at the walls, averaging a bit over 8'.  I am still experimenting with placement, but they definitely sound better than the apartment.  I have owned a lot of other speakers, large and small, and I really like the LS50's.

 

25'x25' is a huge room.  It's hard to find anything larger than 22'x22' which is a finished 2 car garage.

 

 

[Ron Scubadiver]

9 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

I’m sorry you were mislead by Reddit and Massdrop. I can’t be everywhere at once.

That's hilarious coming from a source who relishes making misleading statements.

[Ron Scubadiver]

7 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

I’m neurotypical. I’m reality-based. Obviously I make mistakes but I’m a better source for audiophile advice than Massdrop.

ROFLOL

[Ron Scubadiver]

neurotic...

[Ron Scubadiver]

Experience, knowledge and bias....

[Ron Scubadiver]

@tmtomh big congrats on the new house.

[Ron Scubadiver]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

I think we are all agreed that gutb seems like a Jewish mother (in the negative respects - not that he can make warm comforting matzo or anything)

I find that offensive.

[Ron Scubadiver]

2 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Aw heck.  Though my Jewish mother wasn't anything much like a stereotypical Jewish mother, I do know a couple of good Jewish mother jokes.

 

Q: How many Jewish mothers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

 

A: None. "I'll just sit here in the dark."

How does a Jewish mother call her family to dinner?

 

Everyone get in the car.

 

There is a bit of stereotyping going on here.  I know all there is to know about Jewish mothers...

[Ron Scubadiver]

3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

why?

 

you aren't anti-matzo are you?  or do I have to stick an h on the end?

It delves into stereotypes.  Not that many Jewish women are so critical.  Believe me, I know tons of them, and many are close relatives.  

[Ron Scubadiver]

32 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Is Scubadiver a common Jewish last name?

Hell no.

[Ron Scubadiver]

31 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

they all kvetch...i know..i am married to one and never met one that didn't....the good part is they all cook, almost makes up for lack of sex.

I cook, what does that get me?