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10 minutes ago, realDHT said:

It will for sure have a volume control but you still cannot use it with (or at least it would not make any sense to use it with) active speakers.  

 

There may be some confusion between the various models that ECD plan to offer. On DIYAudio, John mentioned this:

 

" we plan to offer an affordable medium power entry level version that is primarily intended to be used with (pre) amps but is powerful enough to directly drive 32 ... 600 Ohm headphones"

 

This is what I was referring to above, which would be perfectly suitable for use with active speakers (with analog inputs).

 

The other "more powerful" PowerDAC model is designed to be used directly with passive speakers (so without need for seperate amplification). 

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1 minute ago, hopkins said:

 

There may be some confusion between the various models that ECD plan to offer. On DIYAudio, John mentioned this:

 

" we plan to offer an affordable medium power entry level version that is primarily intended to be used with (pre) amps but is powerful enough to directly drive 32 ... 600 Ohm headphones"

 

This is what I was referring to above, which would be perfectly suitable for use with active speakers (with analog inputs).

 

The other "more powerful" PowerDAC model is designed to be used directly with passive speakers (so without need for seperate amplification).

Aha, ok I was thinking about the powerdac for speakers. But it is somewhat confusing indeed.. I wonder if that means that this 'headphone powerdac' will then be the recommended model also for normal line level DAC use, so that there will not be any 'normal' DAC in ECDs next generation of products? I guess we just have to wait and see..

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22 minutes ago, murphythecat87 said:

the powerdac cannot be used with active speakers....

 

As mentioned above there will be several models (all to be "officially" confirmed by ECD, but already explained on DIYAudio). One for (passive) speakers one for use with headphones and external amplification (with fixed or variable output) so suitable for use with active speakers with analog input. 

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9 hours ago, murphythecat87 said:

from what i understand, there will be two dac on offer. a speaker power dac and a headphone power dac. The headphone powerdac will also have fixed or variable output so can be used also to feed a speaker amp or in @mevdinc case feed his active ATC

buying the speaker powerdac with active ATC would be a serious lost of money

Thanks for the feedback.
This is exactly what I was hoping for, a version of the new DAC without the power amp section and with a built-in volume, so that people like me can use it with their active speakers.
 

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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4 hours ago, mevdinc said:

Thanks for the feedback.
This is exactly what I was hoping for, a version of the new DAC without the power amp section and with a built-in volume, so that people like me can use it with their active speakers.
 

I think you misunderstand what the power dac is, it doesn't have a power amp stage , It is based on their current standard 'fractal' DAC (or at least it was a few months ago), the normal fractal dac has output impedance of a few hundred ohms and output power of a few mW, the power version will use the same architecture but scaled up enormously so it can output many watts with low output impedance, this is what makes it a power dac and not just a dac with an integrated amp.

The lower power headphone version would apply the same concept but on a smaller scale.

 

No reason either version couldn't be used with an external amp but, assuming these DACs are still using the same architecture as the current fractal dac,  if you dont plan to use it for headphones or passive speakers it would be a waste compared to standard fractal dac .

I also highly doubt the powerDAC concept is possible without some compromises, so you may even end up paying more for something that performs worse for your usage.

 

There could be cases where the headphone power dac would be useful for replacing an active preamp/input stage and driving a power amp/output stage directly.

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5 minutes ago, numlog said:

There could be cases where the headphone power dac would be useful for replacing an active preamp/input stage and driving a power amp/output stage directly.

 

This might be exactly what @mevdinc had in mind.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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8 minutes ago, numlog said:

I also highly doubt the powerDAC concept is possible without some compromises, so you may even end up paying more for something that performs worse for your usage.

 

There could be cases where the headphone power dac would be useful for replacing an active preamp/input stage and driving a power amp/output stage directly.

This is true. The key here will be to have suffciently high speaker sensitivity. I think ECD stated before (if I remember correctly), that output power will be in the 5-10 W range. I wondering if the headphone version DAC is the same principle at all.... it might just be a normal fractal DAC equipped with a headphone capable OP amp output stage. That would make sense. Oh well we will see.. 

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18 minutes ago, realDHT said:

 I wondering if the headphone version DAC is the same principle at all.... it might just be a normal fractal DAC equipped with a headphone capable OP amp output stage. That would make sense. Oh well we will see.. 

I really hope so and would be super surprised if not based on ecdesigns posts, that was the main selling point to me.

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1 minute ago, numlog said:

I really hope so and would be super surprised if not based on ecdesigns posts, that was the main selling point to me.

Yes I'm also guessing that it will not be anything simple like a beefy opamp on the output. Although it would still be an innovative product with the new DAPI interface and all. 

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49 minutes ago, realDHT said:

 it might just be a normal fractal DAC equipped with a headphone capable OP amp output stage.

 

This would be contrary to all what they mentioned on diyaudio. ECD dislike active amplification. TBH, in my understanding both PowerDACs work with the same principle, the only difference is that the HP PowerDAC is not able to drive speakers, it will be probably limited to output to HP with minimum of 32 Ohms impedance.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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2 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

This would be contrary to all what they mentioned on diyaudio. ECD dislike active amplification. TBH, in my understanding both PowerDACs work with the same principle, the only difference is that the HP powerDAC is not able to drive speakers, it will be probably limited to output to HP with minimum of 32 Ohms.

 

Matt

Yes it would most likely be a scaled down version of the same principle. 

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22 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

It is not a traditional op amp output stage, as noted also by others. Basically, from what I understand, it is a scaled down PowerDAC (you can refer to the DIYAudio thread for further explanations). Hopefully they will confirm all this soon. 

 

The concept is really interesting, as it should provide:

- isolated, jitter-less input through this DAPI/Toslink interface

- high quality conversion using the same Fractal DAC solution that we have come to appreciate, and further improved by very low-bandwidth (noise free) input

- improved power supply (waiting for further info from ECD on this point)

- low distortion volume control/amplification (PowerDAC concept)

 

Exciting !

Yes the launch of the new products will be very interesting indeed. Personally, since I have electrostatic headphones and active speakers I probably will not benefit much from the new output designs, the part that interests me most is the DAPI, probably a big potential for sound improvement there! It is just incredible how sensitive the USB interface is..for example I recently realized that one can easily hear the difference between 2 usb cables of different length but otherwise identical construction.   

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5 minutes ago, realDHT said:

Yes the launch of the new products will be very interesting indeed. Personally, since I have electrostatic headphones and active speakers I probably will not benefit much from the new output designs, the part that interests me most is the DAPI, probably a big potential for sound improvement there! It is just incredible how sensitive the USB interface is..for example I recently realized that one can easily hear the difference between 2 usb cables of different length but otherwise identical construction.   

 

Yes, agreed. I have  completly given up on  "tweaking" digital any longer for those reasons. Waiting for these new products eagerly. 

 

Whether the sound quality improvement will be significant, with (my) speakers, is another issue, as there are so many limitations in speaker implementations - from design to room effects. Headphones are a different story, but I could not live with headphone listening exclusively.

 

Also, concerning the speaker powerdac, as I mentioned earlier, i don't know how my vinyl source would fit in, but that is another story alltogether. 

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2 hours ago, mevdinc said:

It is ture that if it's not possible to use the Powerdac with my active system then it would have no use for me.

 

From diyaudio:

 

"We plan to offer an affordable medium power entry level version that is primarily intended to be used with (pre) amps but is powerful enough to directly drive 32 ... 600 Ohm headphones. Prototype is already up and running and is being thoroughly tested."

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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11 hours ago, matthias said:

 

From diyaudio:

 

"We plan to offer an affordable medium power entry level version that is primarily intended to be used with (pre) amps but is powerful enough to directly drive 32 ... 600 Ohm headphones. Prototype is already up and running and is being thoroughly tested."

 

Matt

Thanks for the heads up.
Two things immediately put me off to be honest; 'entry level version' and 'intended to be used with a preamps'.
Anyway, it's best to wait and see the final product(s) and the options offered.
 

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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36 minutes ago, mevdinc said:

Thanks for the heads up.
Two things immediately put me off to be honest; 'entry level version' and 'intended to be used with a preamps'.
Anyway, it's best to wait and see the final product(s) and the options offered.

 

Do not worry, ECD can change a lot in short periods of time :-)

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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1 hour ago, mevdinc said:

Thanks for the heads up.
Two things immediately put me off to be honest; 'entry level version' and 'intended to be used with a preamps'.
Anyway, it's best to wait and see the final product(s) and the options offered.
 

 

Probably a bad choice of words from ECD, on both counts. 

 

On a side note, I am sure they would get more attention if they were to sell their "entry level" model for 10.000 euros with an expensive metal case. Then they could sell the more powerful speaker model for 30.000 euros and call it "PowerDAC Extreme".

 

I hope they are not reading this 😄

 

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16 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Then they could sell the more powerful speaker model for 30.000 euros and call it "PowerDAC Extreme".

 

Haha, to bring a PowerDAC Extreme they must have first a standard PowerDAC for speakers which makes music.......

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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