Optical Network Configurations

[jabbr]

Thanks, man

 

Tonight I finally got to add an optical card to my control pc, so it now is: control -> audio pc directly via optical cable and no copper or FMC's. Storage HDD is local (sata), so no nas.

 

The result is a big step up in SQ, coming from a blacker background and greater composure and clarity. I can definitely recommend swapping fmc's for cards.

 

Really happy with the result!

 

Nice. I think that if the fiber switch has a good clock and LPS or battery supply then there may actually be a benefit to reclocking the Ethernet ... at the very least not worse:)

[John769]

Nice. I think that if the fiber switch has a good clock and LPS or battery supply then there may actually be a benefit to reclocking the Ethernet ... at the very least not worse:)

 

Some folks over on JPLAY recently reported actual SQ improvement by inserting a copper switch into their copper ethernet dual pc set ups, even more so with a PPA upgraded switch.

 

I suppose the same phenomenon could apply to optical

[Albrecht]

jabbr:

 

Could you please give a list of components needed to make an optical network, and what connects to what. Currently I am using a Cisco switch for a 2-pc HQ Player (HQPC and NAA) set up.

 

Thanks.

 

First post: first mistake: (sorry) Post meant to reply/respond to Jabbr.

 

Thanks for all of your posts on this subject, - I have learned a lot. I am thinking of using two TrendNet TEG-082WS switches that have two MM fiber connections and 8 Gigabit RJ45 Ethernet ports: instead of media converters at the audio rack. With the potential for 5 to 7 RJ45 Ethernet devices in the audio rack: that could account for a lot of media converters. Hence my question, are you realizing significant SQ benefits by running either battery power or linear power supplies on your FMCs?

[jabbr]

First post: first mistake: (sorry) Post meant to reply/respond to Jabbr.

 

Thanks for all of your posts on this subject, - I have learned a lot. I am thinking of using two TrendNet TEG-082WS switches that have two MM fiber connections and 8 Gigabit RJ45 Ethernet ports: instead of media converters at the audio rack. With the potential for 5 to 7 RJ45 Ethernet devices in the audio rack: that could account for a lot of media converters. Hence my question, are you realizing significant SQ benefits by running either battery power or linear power supplies on your FMCs?

 

There are many ways to do it. Firstly be sure that the switch you mentioned has enough capacity for you because the 2 SFP ports are shared with 2 of the RJ45, so you will have 6 RJ45 ports free.

 

There are degrees of goodness. Some people prefer to keep the copper and fiber separate. I started running 2 FMCs on the connection to my NAA and heard a significant benefit. Putting a battery on the FMC closest to the NAA also yields benefit. I also have benefit from switching my own system to fiber, which means a fiber switch and a fiber NIC. Both of mine are LPS. Batteries are cheap. You could get an extra battery and listen to it on various FMCs and if you hear a difference, then leave it there. If you don't hear a difference, then try it somewhere else etc., worst case you have an extra spare supply for your iPhone/android etc.

 

As I upgrade areas, I move equipment to other places, so now I have an FMC between my cable modem, and internal network, as well as between wireless router, and internal network. Does it make an SQ difference? Frankly who knows.

 

The thing I would also do is to use vibration isolation (rollerballs) on every piece of equipment that has a clock, i.e. computer, NAA, FMC, switch, DAC.

[Albrecht]

There are many ways to do it.

As I upgrade areas, I move equipment to other places, so now I have an FMC between my cable modem, and internal network, as well as between wireless router, and internal network. Does it make an SQ difference? Frankly who knows.

 

The thing I would also do is to use vibration isolation (rollerballs) on every piece of equipment that has a clock, i.e. computer, NAA, FMC, switch, DAC.

 

Thank you again. I was trying to avoid running 5 copper RJ45 cables from the NAS/gigabit switch, - 30ft into the audio room. But, the only place where i need "better" SQ is the digital file player. I guess that I'll get more flexibility by running Media converters, - & 1 fiber cable, - with the ability to run different power supplies on the Media converters. It's not like the cable TV box is going derive much benefit from a fiber link.

 

Thanks again.

[gldgate]

John - Thanks for your report. I still have an unused Trendnet SFP PCIe card. While it did not work in my CAPS audio PC (Supermicro motherboard) I can try it on my Control PC (Asus Sabertooth Z97 MB). I have extra Cisco SFP's so the only thing I need is a 8M fiber optic cable. Will give it a go. While I like the convenience of NAS drives, if the SQ is better with direct connection bypassing Optical Switch/FMC's I can always xfer files onto local SSD for playback. Will report back.

 

Good news. My Trendnet SFP PCIe which did not work on my CAPS Audio PC (Supermicro motherboard) works on my Control PC with Asus Sabertooth motherboard. While I will try to do a direct connect from Control PC to Audio PC via SFP PCIe cards this weekend I was able to connect Control PC to Optical switch, removing another RJ45 cable.

 

Below is a jpeg picture of current network config.

[John769]

Good to hear about the Trendnet, GG. These cards can be finicky it seems

[gldgate]

Good to hear about the Trendnet, GG. These cards can be finicky it seems

 

Too finicky. Right after I posted I started to get some intermittent drop out issues so I've ordered another LR Link card from China. Oh well.

[ericuco]

Latest update: I have a portion of the optical network up & running.

 

Got the Mellanox card installed as well as Linux drivers. Thankfully my neighbor is a Linux guy who helped out with getting a few dependencies installed.

 

No optical switch (in route from China) yet so using the TP-Link devices between music server & switch as well between switch & NAA, so 3 TP-Link devices.

 

Got short (2 ft) Ethernet cables on order so using slightly longer cables for now.

 

The only problem is that my Synology NAS no longer mounts to music server which is a real PITA. Not sure how to fix this. Ideas? Right now I have an external HDD hooked up via USB.

 

As for the SQ, so far sounds great. Hard to quantify. I recently added a REGEN so several changes.

[ericuco]

The only problem is that my Synology NAS no longer mounts to music server which is a real PITA. Not sure how to fix this. Ideas? Right now I have an external HDD hooked up via USB.

 

Ok, got my NAS unit to mount. Forgot that permissions on NAS needed updating for new IP address for the Mellanox card.

[John769]

@jabbr

 

Thinking of trying Broadcom optical card + Cisco SM SFP -> X520 + intel compatible (dual) E10GSFPLR? The latter just sees the single mode signal and isn't fussy where it comes from?

[jabbr]

Should just work.

[John769]

Should just work.

 

Seems logical, thanks.

 

Guess the ppa upgraded oem Diablo went off the back burner?

[jabbr]

Still waiting for his -- in meantime I'm doing a neutrino myself ... 12v LPS for this just arrived and it's ready for me to hook up

[jabbr]

Seems logical, thanks.

 

Guess the ppa upgraded oem Diablo went off the back burner?

 

Still waiting for his -- in meantime I'm doing a neutrino myself ... 12v LPS for this just arrived and it's ready for me to hook up...

[John769]

nice!

[ericuco]

Finally success!!!

 

I had a few issues but the biggest hang-up appears to be a bad Cisco module. I could NOT get my Linux server to connect using a number of different configurations. Thought I had a bad fiber optic cable. Swapped out one of the modules and presto, everything connected.

 

My current WORKING configuration is as follows:

 

Diablo switch with 2 Ethernet ports & 2 fiber optic ports

 

Synology NAS and Airport Extreme (wireless hub) are connected to the Ethernet ports

 

Linux music server & Cubox-i (NAA) are connected to the fiber optic ports

 

The Linux music server has a Mellanox fiber optic card so a direct connection to the Diablo switch.

 

There is a TP-Link converter between the Cubox-i and Diablo switch.

 

Fiber Optic Cables (6 m) fiber optic cables

 

Ethernet cables are Blue Jeans Cat 6a

[gldgate]

Congrats. Optical is not plug and play (especially with SFP PCIe cards) but IMO worth the effort. Let us know your impressions after you listen for a while.

[ericuco]

Congrats. Optical is not plug and play (especially with SFP PCIe cards) but IMO worth the effort. Let us know your impressions after you listen for a while.

 

Thanks to you, jabbr & ted_b for your assistance & encouragement. Also to my neighbor who is a Linux guy and helped with the Mellanox driver install which required some other programs (dependencies) to be installed.

 

Just listened to Patricia Barber - Verses, an album I know well, and all I can say is WOW!! I typically can't hear subtle differences in most tweaks like USB cables, power cables, etc. like many here on CA can. And, my system is pretty well sorted out. But this is no subtle change. Also listened briefly to Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane, and had a similar result - WOW.

 

I am still a bit on "pins & needles" hoping that this configuration is robust meaning that everything connects when I have to power off/on various devices for whatever reason (e.g. reboot music server). Just found that one of my short Cat 6a cables from Blue Jeans Cables may be bad. I was going to use it to connect the NAS to the switch but the NAS would never connect. Swapped out cables and NAS connected.

 

If anyone is looking to good down this path, I have two extra TP-Link converters that I would probably sell for a decent price. PM me if interested.

[tgb]

My current WORKING configuration is as follows:

Diablo switch with 2 Ethernet ports & 2 fiber optic ports

Synology NAS and Airport Extreme (wireless hub) are connected to the Ethernet ports

Hi ericuco

cool if you're happy with your optical network! So great that idea of Eurodriver Jabbr and Ted.

 

Question : no harshness at all ?

I ask you that regarding the fact that you plugged devices on the RJ45 ports of your switch.

I and another forumer found that when we plug a device on the rj45 ports of SFP switches, sounds is harsh compared to no use of rj45 ports but only use of sfp ports.

We found that on :

- my switch : TPlink SG5412F

- the Diablo (8 sfp + 1 rj45 port version )

Thus, our conclusion (the advice we give here on the French audio forum) is : optical network is perfect when you use a switch using only its sfp ports, not the rj45.

It seems that the devices plugged on the rj45 ports pollute the switch leading to worsen SQ.

 

Is it your experience ? does someone agree with my advice or found no SQ difference when using or not rj45 ports ?

thanks

Rgds

[BobSherman]

Hi ericuco

cool if you're happy with your optical network! So great that idea of Eurodriver Jabbr and Ted.

 

Question : no harshness at all ?

I ask you that regarding the fact that you plugged devices on the RJ45 ports of your switch.

I and another forumer found that when we plug a device on the rj45 ports of SFP switches, sounds is harsh compared to no use of rj45 ports but only use of sfp ports.

We found that on :

- my switch : TPlink SG5412F

- the Diablo (8 sfp + 1 rj45 port version )

Thus, our conclusion (the advice we give here on the French audio forum) is : optical network is perfect when you use a switch using only its sfp ports, not the rj45.

It seems that the devices plugged on the rj45 ports pollute the switch leading to worsen SQ.

 

Is it your experience ? does someone agree with my advice or found no SQ difference when using or not rj45 ports ?

thanks

Rgds

 

Interesting information. So you are saying to use RJ45 SFPs for the Ethernet devices and not the ports built in the switch? Or better to use transceivers for the Ethernet devices and only fiber at the switch?

 

Regards

Bob

[John769]

Interesting information. So you are saying to use RJ45 SFPs for the Ethernet devices and not the ports built in the switch? Or better to use transceivers for the Ethernet devices and only fiber at the switch?

 

Regards

Bob

 

 

He's saying that it's best not to mix copper and optical on the same switch, otherwise the former may have a subtle negative effect on the latter. For additional copper wiring requiring a switch, then best to have it on a separate copper only ethernet switch, as illustrated in Goldengate's diagram a few posts back

[tgb]

THanks John769 to explain more clearly what I poorly tried to explain...

I confirm : switches with SFP ports have also some RJ45 ports, to make it more versatile in commom use (data exchange on long distance).

When you use these switches for audio, our experience is that you do not have to plug any device on the RJ45 ports, vecause it affects the running of the switch & leads to harsh sound.

Thus, this switch should be used only with optical SFPs. Only transfer in/out thru fibers.

Hope it's clearer...

Did you experience the same & advice the same ?

Rgds

[BobSherman]

THanks John769 to explain more clearly what I poorly tried to explain...

I confirm : switches with SFP ports have also some RJ45 ports, to make it more versatile in commom use (data exchange on long distance).

When you use these switches for audio, our experience is that you do not have to plug any device on the RJ45 ports, vecause it affects the running of the switch & leads to harsh sound.

Thus, this switch should be used only with optical SFPs. Only transfer in/out thru fibers.

Hope it's clearer...

Did you experience the same & advice the same ?

Rgds

 

 

Makes sense, as John mentioned also. Thanks. No Ethernet SPF only optical.

 

Has anyone tried using an Ethernet filter on the Ethernet side between a transceiver and music server? The transceiver might generate some junk possibly? Any thoughts?

 

Regards

Bob

[gldgate]

I can confirm in my system it sounds better to bypass RJ45 connector on Diablo OEM switch to have all optical connections. Better IMO to have a separate dedicated copper switch with FMC if needed (which I do for Comcast Router).