Optical Network Configurations

[mourip]

My present setup is Router with one ethernet connection to server and one ethernet connection to a renderer (an ethernet to USB mini-server). I'm using CAT6 ethernet cable.

My understanding is that to setup a simple fiber connection for the router, server, and renderer I need the following:

 

2X TP-LINK MC200CM Gigabit Media Converter

 

and one duplex multimode patch cable (SC-ST) to connect the 2 media converter boxes.

 

One media converter connects by standard CAT6 ethernet to the router, the other media converter box connects to my renderer over CAT6.

 

Is this correct?

 

That is currently pretty much my exact configuration except I use Cat7. I doubt that makes any difference though. That configuration should work perfectly for you.

 

I am a bit late to the fiber tweaks so pardon the noob question.

 

If you are connecting two MC200CM's would you not want an SC-SC cable?

 

Thanks!

[John769]

Indeed SC to SC..

[mourip]

Thanks John.

[DarekLogic]

That's great. Can you post the exact model #s again of the SFPs that didn't work with the Mellanox and did? This is a learning experience for all of us. FWIW, I ordered a Mellanox card and ASRock Q1900M and I just received a Logic Supply MC600 case (with 2 pci-e expansion slots) for the NAA I'm building ... what a nice case!

Darek here from Logic Supply. Thanks for the compliment on our MC600 case. We think it's great too!

[speavler]

Welp, that power supply was a bust. Doesn't power on at all. And looking inside, it says AC220V-IN right on the circuit board, so I guess they sent the wrong version. But the seller is denying it.

 

Just amending this post to say we figured out it was a bad switch and with the sellers help I got my soldering iron out and created a couple of jumpers to bypass it and now the power supply is cranking out 9v times 2 outputs just fine

[MrSprout]

Hi all, I've joined the fibre revolution! Or rather, I've bought a couple of TP Link MC100CM and an SC/SC cable and got it all hooked up successfully. It was a complete doddle in the end - even my HDPlex PSU fitted one of them without needing adaptors. I can't comment on sound quality as I replaced my streamer at the same time, but it allows me to split my system electrically between the linear powered gear on a balanced transformer and the smps powered gear on another filter. Only Toslink (from the Blu-ray player) and Fibre ethernet (for the streamer) cross between them and I'm very happy with the results.

 

I have a question however. I've replaced the network cable between the streamer side adaptor and the streamer itself, going from a generic Cat6a cable to an AQ Cinnamon and the difference was dramatic. My question is whether there's any point replacing the generic network cables between the switch-side adaptor and the switch, and between the switch and the NAS? Has anyone tried that with the fibre link in place, and did it make a noticeable difference?

 

I'm also thinking about setting up a fibre switch and powering the NAS and switch from a linear PS, bringing them into the same power zone as the rest of the hi-fi. But the same question applies: with the fibre connectors in front of the streamer will that make any difference, or would it be a waste of money? How completely does the TP Link adaptor reclock the data stream, if at all?

[speavler]

I'm still trying to determine the benefit of using LPS on the NAS/Networking side of my system. Introducing the fiber media converters even with stock power supplies was an immediate and noticeable improvement. Adding a fiber switch and powering it and the FMC's with LPS wasn't the same type of immediately noticeable improvement on my system. I'm still in the process of evaluating as there are a number of permutations with all these added devices and power supplies. My computer and network hardware are all on a separate circuit from my hifi, which is on its own dedicated circuit (and separated by a USB to SPDIF converter), so that may explain the limited improvements of using lps on the NAS/networking side?

[gldgate]

I'm still trying to determine the benefit of using LPS on the NAS/Networking side of my system. Introducing the fiber media converters even with stock power supplies was an immediate and noticeable improvement. Adding a fiber switch and powering it and the FMC's with LPS wasn't the same type of immediately noticeable improvement on my system. I'm still in the process of evaluating as there are a number of permutations with all these added devices and power supplies. My computer and network hardware are all on a separate circuit from my hifi, which is on its own dedicated circuit (and separated by a USB to SPDIF converter), so that may explain the limited improvements of using lps on the NAS/networking side?

 

There are many members getting good results using inexpensive batteries. In my system my FMC's are powered by 15000 mAh Technet Power Banks while Optical Switch is on LPS. The SQ jump from SMPS to battery in my set up was very noticeable. The batteries are inexpensive (> $30 ea). May be worth a shot. Only downside is that they need to be recharged. I use 2 in my system but purchased 4 Tecknet's to limit downtime (2 always in system while other 2 are being recharged).

[ericuco]

I have been monitoring this thread for a while with great interest and am almost ready to start down the optical network path but have a question that does not seem to have been addressed, at least I have not seen it addressed (sorry if I missed something).

 

Does the length of cabling play into the benefits? I can certainly see if you have long runs of Ethernet cables then the benefits seem a bit more obvious.

 

In my case, I have a Cisco switch near my Linux music server & NAA (Cubox-i - HQ Player) so the distance between the switch and the two computers is very short ... using Cat6a cables of 3 to 4 four feet in length. My NAS unit is set off at a slightly longer distance from the switch and connected with a 15 foot Cat6a cable. So relatively short Cat6a cables given that Cat6a can be stretched to well over 100 ft.

 

Also, the music server, NAA and Cisco switch are on LPS if that matters.

 

Best case scenario for optical network would be the Mellanox card for my music server & an optical switch but that still leaves using the TP-Link boxes to convert the optical signal to/from the copper signal on the NAS and NAA. So I would still need a few feet of Cat6a cables plus 2 conversions. Just trying to gauge what the expected benefit is for my situation.

 

Unlike other things in audio, this is a fairly inexpensive thing to do ... a few $100 ... but there is effort in getting everything ordered and setup. If there is anyone out there in a similar situation, I would very much like to hear from you.

[gldgate]

I have been monitoring this thread for a while with great interest and am almost ready to start down the optical network path but have a question that does not seem to have been addressed, at least I have not seen it addressed (sorry if I missed something).

 

Does the length of cabling play into the benefits? I can certainly see if you have long runs of Ethernet cables then the benefits seem a bit more obvious.

 

In my case, I have a Cisco switch near my Linux music server & NAA (Cubox-i - HQ Player) so the distance between the switch and the two computers is very short ... using Cat6a cables of 3 to 4 four feet in length. My NAS unit is set off at a slightly longer distance from the switch and connected with a 15 foot Cat6a cable. So relatively short Cat6a cables given that Cat6a can be stretched to well over 100 ft.

 

Also, the music server, NAA and Cisco switch are on LPS if that matters.

 

Best case scenario for optical network would be the Mellanox card for my music server & an optical switch but that still leaves using the TP-Link boxes to convert the optical signal to/from the copper signal on the NAS and NAA. So I would still need a few feet of Cat6a cables plus 2 conversions. Just trying to gauge what the expected benefit is for my situation.

 

Unlike other things in audio, this is a fairly inexpensive thing to do ... a few $100 ... but there is effort in getting everything ordered and setup. If there is anyone out there in a similar situation, I would very much like to hear from you.

 

I would spend the additional effort to make sure that every audio signal goes through optical conversion. As you mentioned, you can do this (SFP Pcie card, Optical Switch, FMC's, SFP's, cables) in the neighborhood of $300 which for audio is a pretty minor investment. The majority of people on this thread who have gone this route have reported positive results. You don't have to do this all at once either. You can use FMC's at first and see if you like what you hear. If you do, you can add optical switch and SFP Pcie card later. The only downside to the "go slow" approach is that you will need more FMC's up front than you will ultimately need if you get the optical switch later.

 

Everyone's system is different so you will not get a consensus on which part of the optical chain yielded the biggest bang for the buck. In my system, I had positive SQ results by adding FMC's with upgraded power supplies. I then went back in two additional "phases" and added an optical switch and finally a SFP PCIe card. I thought these later changes added value but benefits were not as pronounced as the intitial FMC's. Others have reported that these later changes yielded more significant benefits in their systems.

 

The main benefit of optical is immunity to EMI. No need to guess about the relative benefit of short vs long copper ethernet when you can eliminate a potential problem all together.

 

Long way of saying I'd bite the bullet and go for it. Worse case scenario is no difference in SQ but your file transfer speeds are now faster.

 

 

addendum: I may have not covered one of your points. Don't worry about having a mixed mode (Copper/Optical) network as long as the files from your NAS drives are converted before they go to your music server.

 

In my own system I have two NAS drives connected via copper ethernet to FMC's that then go to optical switch and Finally Audio PC.

 

Some additional pointers:

 

- If possible, do not use ethernet port on optical switch

- Switch out stock SMPS on FMC's and optical switch for battery/cheap LPS

 

 

Hope this helps.

[jabbr]

+1

 

There is a benefit of reducing the copper Ethernet cable length if the equipment uses "green Ethernet" which can reduce power for shorter cables.

 

Optical Ethernet can go kilometers with single mode.

[ericuco]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I have the process started by ordering a switch, the TP-Link converters and the Cisco receivers. I need to determine the cable lengths but can do so while the rest of the items are shipping. Also need to look at the power supply needs for each of the boxes.

 

Going to hold off on the Mellanox card for now to see what gains I get before having to open up my music server.

[jabbr]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I have the process started by ordering a switch, the TP-Link converters and the Cisco receivers. I need to determine the cable lengths but can do so while the rest of the items are shipping. Also need to look at the power supply needs for each of the boxes.

 

Going to hold off on the Mellanox card for now to see what gains I get before having to open up my music server.

 

Very reasonable to first see how much of a difference it makes in your own system before making too many changes.

 

Its really too bad there isn't anything like the Cubox that accepts an SFP connection. There are actually FPGA/ARM chips e.g. Altera that can directly accept the input from an SFP.

[sm31]

Very reasonable to first see how much of a difference it makes in your own system before making too many changes.

 

Its really too bad there isn't anything like the Cubox that accepts an SFP connection. There are actually FPGA/ARM chips e.g. Altera that can directly accept the input from an SFP.

What about something like this?

 

http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/10/24/gigglebits-hackable-arm-fpga-router-comes-with-an-spf-cage-and-5-gigabit-ethernet-ports-crowdfunding/

[jabbr]

What about something like this?

 

http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/10/24/gigglebits-hackable-arm-fpga-router-comes-with-an-spf-cage-and-5-gigabit-ethernet-ports-crowdfunding/

 

That's great! This board looks like it could be a direct fiber input NAA, and output I2S from programmed pins.

[sm31]

That's great! This board looks like it could be a direct fiber input NAA, and output I2S from programmed pins.

 

Is it a problem that it has wifi on board?

[John769]

FWIW in case anyone else -on the planet - is using asrock celeron motherboards:

 

Previously reported that the LR link, single mode, optical pcie card wouldn't work with asrock Q1900DC-ITX (bay trail) board, as kept getting an error 12 message (not enough resources)

 

LR LINK LREC6210PF SFP PCIe 1000Base SX/LX SFP Port Network Interface Card(Broadcom 5708S Based)-in Network Cards from Computer & Office on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

 

Tried same card in a new asrock N3150M (braswell) board and works fine, using the same QLogic driver automatically installed by windows 10 as for Q1900.

 

Not sure if there was some weird incompatibility between the Q1900 and card, or another reason, such as bios settings changed, faulty memory etc.

 

The LR link card -> MC220L is sounding good. Noticed also that it's reduced in price by around $15 since I bought it and represents great value imo

[gldgate]

John:

 

Glad you got the LR link card working. While I'm sure the Intel x520 cards are awesome, it's good to have some lower cost alternatives as well for those that don't need 10gb. At current reduced price it's a good deal for those who want to further venture down the optical path on a budget.

[ericuco]

Just a quick update for anyone interested plus I would like to bounce a few things off the experts.

 

For the optical switch, I have on order one of the inexpensive ones:

 

Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is 10 ports 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet Fiber Switch with 8 Gbit SFP ports and 2*10/100/1000Mbps RJ45

 

It has two RJ45 connectors so I was thinking that I could attach my NAS (port 1) as well as my Airport Extreme (port 2) which acts as a wireless connection to my home network & Internet. By doing so, I can avoid adding one of the TP-Link converters for the NAS. I am assuming that the switch performs the same function as the TP-Link converter. The optical switch will be in close proximity to these two pieces so very short Cat6a cables can be used.

 

I also have on order one of the Mellanox cards for my Linux music server. The card was only $18 on ebay (so what the hell), again avoiding one of the TP-Links converters for my music server.

 

So the only TP-Link converter needed will be used for the Cubox-i (NAA). I have 3 TP-Links converters on order so I may end up with extras.

 

I still need to order the fiber optic cables but wanted to get my placement of the various pieces confirmed before deciding on length of cables. Probably also need a few short runs of Cat6a cables but can wait to see how everything checks out.

 

Any comments from the experts about this configuration are welcome.

 

Edit: forgot to mention that by avoiding the two TP-Links converter also avoids two additional power supplies. So I would only be adding one additional power supply from what I have now.

[jabbr]

You can do it this way. The product looks like a variant probably made in the same factory as the one I am using. There is the thought, however, that you should avoid all copper Ethernet into the switch itself, and so another alternative is to connect the copper devices with FMCs. If you are worried about extra LPSs, I think you are better off using an FMC with a simple SMPS as opposed to copper Ethernet, particularly for those FMCs connected to the NAS etc. This is all likely system and user dependent, so it really depends, but if you are getting a significant improvement with LPS (as many people are), then the only copper wires going into your fiber switch should be from the LPS

 

 

Just a quick update for anyone interested plus I would like to bounce a few things off the experts.

 

For the optical switch, I have on order one of the inexpensive ones:

 

Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is 10 ports 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet Fiber Switch with 8 Gbit SFP ports and 2*10/100/1000Mbps RJ45

 

It has two RJ45 connectors so I was thinking that I could attach my NAS (port 1) as well as my Airport Extreme (port 2) which acts as a wireless connection to my home network & Internet. By doing so, I can avoid adding one of the TP-Link converters for the NAS. I am assuming that the switch performs the same function as the TP-Link converter. The optical switch will be in close proximity to these two pieces so very short Cat6a cables can be used.

 

I also have on order one of the Mellanox cards for my Linux music server. The card was only $18 on ebay (so what the hell), again avoiding one of the TP-Links converters for my music server.

 

So the only TP-Link converter needed will be used for the Cubox-i (NAA). I have 3 TP-Links converters on order so I may end up with extras.

 

I still need to order the fiber optic cables but wanted to get my placement of the various pieces confirmed before deciding on length of cables. Probably also need a few short runs of Cat6a cables but can wait to see how everything checks out.

 

Any comments from the experts about this configuration are welcome.

 

Edit: forgot to mention that by avoiding the two TP-Links converter also avoids two additional power supplies. So I would only be adding one additional power supply from what I have now.

[jabbr]

Is it a problem that it has wifi on board?

 

Not sure, likely interface can be turned off. Looks like the Zynq 7000 has builtin I2S and runs Linux, so possible a very simple board could be made with an SFP module, the chip and an SD card for OS.

[John769]

John:

Glad you got the LR link card working. While I'm sure the Intel x520 cards are awesome, it's good to have some lower cost alternatives as well for those that don't need 10gb. At current reduced price it's a good deal for those who want to further venture down the optical path on a budget.

 

Thanks, man

 

Tonight I finally got to add an optical card to my control pc, so it now is: control -> audio pc directly via optical cable and no copper or FMC's. Storage HDD is local (sata), so no nas.

 

The result is a big step up in SQ, coming from a blacker background and greater composure and clarity. I can definitely recommend swapping fmc's for cards.

 

Really happy with the result!

[Duke40]

I am going to give this a go as it looks like a great project ... have started ordering the gear last night on eBay, Amazon & Blue Jeans Cable websites, so it will take 2 or 3 weeks for everything to get to me.

 

My goal is to isolate everything similar to how Gldgate showed us with his network diagram earlier in this thread. My network is a bit more simple, just the ;

1) ISP Modem

2) WiFi Router/SSD NAS/Print Server (Modded Airport Time Capsule with SSD)

3) Auralic Aries for Music

4) Oppo BDP-103 for Video

* Each of the above items will have their own Trendnet FMC ... which will then connect to the Diablo OEM Fiber switch.

* I will not connect anything to the RJ45 port of the Diablo OEM Fiber Switch (as recommended)

* Will run everything off Linear PSU's or LiPo batteries (as recommended)

Rest of my gear (iDevices and Macbooks) runs on WiFi.

 

Am mainly doing this to Optical Network project to improve isolation for the Auralic Aries.

 

Equipment ordered last night:

1 ... Optical Switch (Diablo OEM from eBay "9 ports Gigabit Ethernet Optical Fiber Switch with 8 SFP ports and 1 1000M RJ45")

4 ... FMC's (Trendnet 100/1000BASE-T to SFP Media Converter, Model Number: TFC-1000MGA)

8 ... Single Mode SFP's (Cisco 1gb -Long wave Model Number : DS-SFP-FC-2G-LW)

4 ... Blue Jean Cables Cat 6A (1 foot lengths)

 

Just need to order the Fiber cables, will do that tomorrow night, I need 4 of them and the Cisco website says "The minimum cable distance for all SFPs listed (multimode fiber [MMF] and single-mode fiber [sMF]) is 6.5 feet (2 meters)" for the model of SFP that I purchased (Cisco Model Number DS-SFP-FC-2G-LW).

 

So I still have to purchase ;

2 ... 2m Singlemode Duplex Fiber Optic Patch Cable (9/125) - LC to LC

2 ... 10m Singlemode Duplex Fiber Optic Patch Cable (9/125) - LC to LC

 

Probably just get something from Monoprice or Belkin, unless someone can recommend a good quality/sensibly priced alternative ?

 

Trying to ensure that I have the right voltage LPS/batteries ready for when the Fiber switch & FMC gear finally arrives.

I do have a question about the power requirements for the Diablo OEM as I notice that a few people on this thread now have one. Earlier in this thread someone said for the Diablo "9v will be fine for the Diablo switch, it can take anything from 5 to 12v" ... is this true for Diablo OEM as well ?

 

John

[gldgate]

Thanks, man

 

Tonight I finally got to add an optical card to my control pc, so it now is: control -> audio pc directly via optical cable and no copper or FMC's. Storage HDD is local (sata), so no nas.

 

The result is a big step up in SQ, coming from a blacker background and greater composure and clarity. I can definitely recommend swapping fmc's for cards.

 

Really happy with the result!

 

John - Thanks for your report. I still have an unused Trendnet SFP PCIe card. While it did not work in my CAPS audio PC (Supermicro motherboard) I can try it on my Control PC (Asus Sabertooth Z97 MB). I have extra Cisco SFP's so the only thing I need is a 8M fiber optic cable. Will give it a go. While I like the convenience of NAS drives, if the SQ is better with direct connection bypassing Optical Switch/FMC's I can always xfer files onto local SSD for playback. Will report back.

[John769]

Will report back.

 

Look forward to read how the two set ups compare, GG!

 

In my wild excitement earlier, I forgot to mention a 'small' detail in that for control pc duties, I changed my laptop for a Q1900 desktop (powered by a linear). So some of the SQ improvements will, no doubt, be attributable to that. I'm pretty sure though that the additional optical card is helping a lot too. Of course, it will be easy to put the FMC back to compare.