UpTone Audio USB Regen Listening Impressions

[Daudio]

The thing with a lot of the often small sonic differences/improvements around using USB, I don't think A/B type listening works very well at all. I find the sonic signature of your system when you take components away, tends, for me, to provide a more consistent identifyable difference than trying to perform straight A/B comparisons when adding components? Do others find this to be the case?

 

Evo,

 

I agree ! I lent out my Regen 'green' to an audiophile friend who set it up in another friends system (very hi-end stuff w/ $100k speakers). Both of them have long experience listening to a wide variety of good to great audio gear. They went about testing by inserting the Regen, listening for a while, removing it, listening for a while, and then doing it again (I forget how many iterations). They came back to me a said they didn't hear any significant difference (through an UTA order was placed subsequently ).

 

I was mystified at this reaction, both because of my experiences with the Regen, and to that of a couple of other audio friends who had borrowed a Regen, left it in their systems for a while (1 to 2 days), and were so impressed by the SQ improvement that they quickly placed orders for their own devices.

 

Then I read that recent review by Mark Waldrep, and again, an A/B style listening test with no differences heard ????

 

Both of these 'no results' tests involved very good, revealing, audio systems (Waldrep used the same DAC I use), and trained audiophile listeners, so I can't dispute either of those factors.

 

What is left is the type of test: short term A/B. Just as we have seen that DBT/ABX tests appear to be critically flawed for detecting differences, I now think that short term (sighted) A/B tests are inadequate for dealing with subtle differences.

 

A lot has been made of the 'problems' with human auditory memory, with murky 'data' about how short and unreliable it is and how that means long term test are no good. Well, I think that is wrong. Long term memory for sound, coarse or subtle, is a part of the human condition. We remember the subtle differences in our loved ones voices, and react to very minute changes in them. We remember many things about musical performances many years in our pasts, that can inform our present reaction to sound. Whether that is playing style, conducting style, instrument choice, hall sound, old speakers, or electronics, remastering or remixes !

 

What made this so clear to me was listening to a 'live' Pink Floyd recorded performance, and noticing in my head, the differences in sound between the 'real' sound in the air around me and my deeply reinforced memory of the album version of the song. This would NOT be possible without a strong, long term, auditory memory mechanism. To try and say that this aural memory wouldn't work for SQ, is ridiculous, since that is a type of listening that is learned and reinforced in audiophiles heads, and as such would be just as likely a candidate data for memory storage and retrieval, as the sequence of notes would be to a trained musician.

 

Besides, to me, A/B testing is too damn much work ! I'd rather sit back, listen to lots of different music, and let SQ impressions come to me unbidden, unforced, naturally. I trust their veracity much more that way. I think too many folks force themselves into SQ decisions, and thus tend to let unconscious factors rise to the surface in the anxiety for an answer.

[wwaldmanfan]

Evo,

 

I agree ! I lent out my Regen 'green' to an audiophile friend who set it up in another friends system (very hi-end stuff w/ $100k speakers). Both of them have long experience listening to a wide variety of good to great audio gear. They went about testing by inserting the Regen, listening for a while, removing it, listening for a while, and then doing it again (I forget how many iterations). They came back to me a said they didn't hear any significant difference (through an UTA order was placed subsequently ).

 

They didn't hear any difference, but they ordered one (or more) LOL!

 

I hear differences in USB cables. I do not hear significant differences in power cords or speaker cables (although I haven't tried the REALLY expensive ones). I know the REGEN makes a significant improvement in my system. Sibilance and "digititis" on many of my favorite recordings (Alison Krauss, Norah Jones, The Refugees, etc.) has diminished significantly. I'll be ordering a second REGEN for my headphone setup as soon as the backorder situation subsides a little bit.

As I like to say, YMMV.

[sdube]

Shall certainly post on the matter, although I do hope the results over a couple of weeks (of the different permutations and combinations) are conclusive. I confess to finding these comparisons, not merely A-B but even over time, somewhat exhausting, since they detract from the music -- unless of course there is an aha moment.

I would be interested in your results too....I have two of the 6" Aqvox Usb cables, which I had connected between each Regen and connect the second Regen to my Dac. I noticed a more forward presentation, with a sense of more detail, so I stuck with this combination in my twin Regen setup. The cable feeding the regens, was the Supra 70cm USB cable.

 

Recently, after using this setup for a few weeks, I decided to go back to using a solid connector between the last Regen and my Dac....wow! Like listening to when I first inserted a Regen into the system originally - great soundstage and detail, the presentation was much more relaxed and to my ears less fatiguing. So, I tried substituting the Aqvox connecting the two Regens, with a solid adapter. Now this time the sound became less focussed to my ears?

 

The thing with a lot of the often small sonic differences/improvements around using USB, I don't think A/B type listening works very well at all. I find the sonic signature of your system when you take components away, tends, for me, to provide a more consistent identifyable difference than trying to perform straight A/B comparisons when adding components? Do others find this to be the case?

[Kafy]

Regarding all tests, my own experience is the A/B test doesn't work. Now, when I want to test a device in my system, I just put it in and listen it for a week or two, then I remove it and listen if I miss something.

I think the majority of our systems are so good than we will never heard a BIG improvement now. The Regen didn't change the sound in my system, the change are very subtile but they are here. And in our kind of high end systems, we know a subtile improvement is often hard to get, especially at this price.

 

 

I think the measurement today are not good enough to trap what the ears can do.

In fact the "ear" are a very very powerfull device which we are not use to use at the level it can work.

[semente]

I confess to finding these comparisons, not merely A-B but even over time, somewhat exhausting, since they detract from the music -- unless of course there is an aha moment.

 

I suffer from the same problem and in a way I envy all those here who have the patience and perseverance to do all that testing; I find it hard to turn on the evaluation mode.

And to add insult to injury I hate spending money... I guess I wasn't tailored to be an audiophile.

 

I do intend to try the Regen, though, as soon as I replace my current DAC.

 

R

[Wfojas]

Regarding all tests, my own experience is the A/B test doesn't work. Now, when I want to test a device in my system, I just put it in and listen it for a week or two, then I remove it and listen if I miss something.

I think the majority of our systems are so good than we will never heard a BIG improvement now. The Regen didn't change the sound in my system, the change are very subtile but they are here. And in our kind of high end systems, we know a subtile improvement is often hard to get, especially at this price.

 

 

I think the measurement today are not good enough to trap what the ears can do.

In fact the "ear" are a very very powerfull device which we are not use to use at the level it can work.

 

I have the same exact sentiment as you do. When a BIG improvement will happen with something like a Regen, something must definitely be off. My obervations are similar, though I came about this with the Regen having different effects depending on the DACs. I tried them with the Gungnir MLB, and it had some impact, but nothing I couldn't live with. I tried them with an ifi iDSD Micro, and this one was very readily discernable, cleaning out a lot of the digititis this dac seems to have on some material. On a Teac UD-501, I had similar results, to a lesser extent. The USB Regen addresses things on the DACs, but I guess some of them have more USB issues than others? I ran this through a PC>LH 10G>Regen>Dac>Bryston BHA-1>Moon Audio Black Dragon>Sennheiser HD-800 Anax mod 2 setup.

 

YMMV, mine certainly did.

[sdube]

Well, I suppose a lot depends on what one means by a "BIG" improvement. In a well resolved system, if a change for the better in tone, colour, texture, clarity, and ease are apparent, there is something good going on. My problem is with changes that are principally sideways, something different for the better, something indifferent for the worse. Along the lines of good changes indicated above, I have heard a clear improvement with the Regen on the Berkeley Alpha USB, which is regarded as a class-leading unit, feeding my higher end North Star DAC as part of a rather good system. So, I am really happy. Now, normally I would desist from further tweaking/tinkering: but both the newness and cost of the Regen invite and incite this, I reckon.

I have the same exact sentiment as you do. When a BIG improvement will happen with something like a Regen, something must definitely be off. My obervations are similar, though I came about this with the Regen having different effects depending on the DACs. I tried them with the Gungnir MLB, and it had some impact, but nothing I couldn't live with. I tried them with an ifi iDSD Micro, and this one was very readily discernable, cleaning out a lot of the digititis this dac seems to have on some material. On a Teac UD-501, I had similar results, to a lesser extent. The USB Regen addresses things on the DACs, but I guess some of them have more USB issues than others? I ran this through a PC>LH 10G>Regen>Dac>Bryston BHA-1>Moon Audio Black Dragon>Sennheiser HD-800 Anax mod 2 setup.

 

YMMV, mine certainly did.

[Palomino]

I thought I would weigh in even though I probably don't have much to say that hasn't already been said.

 

I had the opportunity to hear the regen on a friend's system. He had the regen running into his PS Audio DS Dac via the short solid extension supplied with the regen. He also has a Decware Mystery amp running into Decware 944s. We listened to a few different artists, but our A/B tune was primarily Jersey Girl by Holly Cole. I think a 24/96 version.

 

I thought it was fairly easy to see that there was a difference with the Regen in the system. Better focus/positioning on the instruments for me (I was in the sweet spot) and more detail.

 

For example, there is a tambourine that is in the Jersey girl song. With the Regen, it sounds more like a real tambourine where you hear the multiple "clinks" (for lack of a better word). Without it, you hear it as more of a single clink and it just wasn't as real. Some people say more air with the regen. I didn't necessarily hear that but it was a relatively short session.

 

Another song was Wailin Jenny's Summertime which can have a bit of an edge to it. I felt the regen helped in this regard as well.

 

We A/B'd but didn't do any blind testing. Still, I believe I could pick it out 100% of the time in a blind test. The focus was just that much better.

 

I have read here about a 20% increase in SQ (subjective I know), but my friend and I independently put our own subjective rating lower based on what we heard on his system. He said 10%, I said 10% to 15%. Most of the tweaks I've experienced in that neighborhood or above have been related to power or room sound treatments. Definitely worth the investment.

 

Anyway, after getting a listen, I bought a regen and will try it out with the supplied SMPS and a small Teradak linear supply I have that puts out 5-8v. I hope to have the Regen in October. I also run USB into a USB/SPDIF converter so it will be interesting to see what I get. I can go direct usb into the DAC so I will try it both ways.

[zilch0md]

A quick note regarding the Audioquest Jitterbug in combination with the USB Regen:

 

My strongest initial impression, after only 12 hours of burn-in, after inserting the Audiquest Jitterbug into my chain...

 

WAVs on SD card > Foobar2000 > Win7 laptop > Audioquest Jitterbug > 0.7m Supra USB 2.0 cable > USB Regen (battery-powered) > adapter > Metrum Acoustics Octave MkII NOS DAC > Anti-Cables RCA interconnects > Metrum Acoustics Aurix headphone amp on 0 dB gain setting > Sennhesier HD 800

 

... is that I'm hearing a darker treble with my HD800 - from about 10kHz and higher, but what the Jitterbug has removed is stuff I want to keep!

 

There's more blackness around everything, but the Jitterbug really seems to be throwing the baby out with the bath water, causing a distinct loss of air and openness, and again - this is content I consider to be part of the original sampling, not "noise" I would want to eliminate.

 

I doubt I would hear this with my Audeze LCD-2 (which is not known for its treble response or resolution), but I haven't tested them with the Jitterbug > USB Regen pairing, yet.

 

Note: I've also discovered that the Jitterbug will not work with my use of the iPad 3 > CCK as a source. (Insufficient power to the Jitterbug, I suspect.)

 

More later.

 

Mike

[Superdad]

I thought I would weigh in even though I probably don't have much to say that hasn't already been said.

 

I had the opportunity to hear the regen on a friend's system. He had the regen running into his PS Audio DS Dac via the short solid extension supplied with the regen. He also has a Decware Mystery amp running into Decware 944s. We listened to a few different artists, but our A/B tune was primarily Jersey Girl by Holly Cole. I think a 24/96 version.

 

I thought it was fairly easy to see that there was a difference with the Regen in the system. Better focus/positioning on the instruments for me (I was in the sweet spot) and more detail.

 

For example, there is a tambourine that is in the Jersey girl song. With the Regen, it sounds more like a real tambourine where you hear the multiple "clinks" (for lack of a better word). Without it, you hear it as more of a single clink and it just wasn't as real. Some people say more air with the regen. I didn't necessarily hear that but it was a relatively short session.

 

Another song was Wailin Jenny's Summertime which can have a bit of an edge to it. I felt the regen helped in this regard as well.

 

We A/B'd but didn't do any blind testing. Still, I believe I could pick it out 100% of the time in a blind test. The focus was just that much better.

 

I have read here about a 20% increase in SQ (subjective I know), but my friend and I independently put our own subjective rating lower based on what we heard on his system. He said 10%, I said 10% to 15%. Most of the tweaks I've experienced in that neighborhood or above have been related to power or room sound treatments. Definitely worth the investment.

 

Anyway, after getting a listen, I bought a regen and will try it out with the supplied SMPS and a small Teradak linear supply I have that puts out 5-8v. I hope to have the Regen in October. I also run USB into a USB/SPDIF converter so it will be interesting to see what I get. I can go direct usb into the DAC so I will try it both ways.

 

Hi Palomino:

 

Thanks for making your first post on CA such a nice and descriptive report on what you heard with the REGEN! I hope you will become an active poster around here and not just a "lurker."

 

Sounds like you and your friend have some terrific gear. I am embarrassed to say that even though I've been in high-end audio for decades, I was not aware of the Decware brand until just recently. And just now looking at their web site I see they've been at it for 20 years! Will have to look for them at RMAF next month (assuming they will be there).

 

Best,

 

--Alex C.

[Daudio]

... normally I would desist from further tweaking/tinkering: but both the newness and cost of the Regen invite and incite this, I reckon.

 

 

Nicely said

 

And then there is that flexibility: cables, PSU's, etc. Irresistible tweak bait ??

[Superdad]

Nicely said

"Irresistible tweak bait."

 

Do you have a trademark on that phrase yet Dave? Could be useful.

[sandyk]

I think the majority of our systems are so good than we will never heard a BIG improvement now.

 

It doesn't matter how good the rest of your system is, if the source isn't up to the same standard. The huge improvements heard at the Sydney listening session when the Regen was powered by a markedly improved PSU, were into a system worth >$100K, but the material was sourced from a Laptop. Not everybody uses Mac Minis with JS2 PSUs etc. that would have considerably improved the Signal Integrity being exported.

[Daudio]

Do you have a trademark on that phrase yet Dave?

 

 

I would happily trade all rights to it for a JS-2 !

[jtwrace]

I would happily trade all rights to it for a JS-2 !

touché

[russtafarian]

Yikes! Just stumbled onto this thread. If anyone has any questions about the Regen session I participated in with Mark Waldrep a few days ago, let me know.

 

Russ Stratton

[jtwrace]

Oh shit...

[Doak]

Oh shit...

 

Hahaha?

[Jud]

Yikes! Just stumbled onto this thread. If anyone has any questions about the Regen session I participated in with Mark Waldrep a few days ago, let me know.

 

Russ Stratton

 

I just got a glance at the photo - pardon me for being too lazy to go back and look more closely - and wondered whether the speakers you were listening to were the only ones in the room, or whether there were others.

[yuhengdu]

I am interested in buying a regen for my system. I use iMac as source and Schiit audio yggdrasil as dac.

 

Which usb cable pair with regen the best? I am looking at YFS data only and Cabledyne reference silver before. Any suggestions? Thanks!

[sdube]

Enticements and Incitements: Tweak and Treat

Nicely said

 

And then there is that flexibility: cables, PSU's, etc. Irresistible tweak bait ??

[jexby]

This is exactly my chain and I can easily recommend the hand made YFS data cable with Regen and Yggy! Yggy never sounded better.

[sdube]

I have replied to your PM, trust that it has gotten through. My first time with responding to a personal message.

I am interested in buying a regen for my system. I use iMac as source and Schiit audio yggdrasil as dac.

 

Which usb cable pair with regen the best? I am looking at YFS data only and Cabledyne reference silver before. Any suggestions? Thanks!

[yuhengdu]

I have replied to your PM, trust that it has gotten through. My first time with responding to a personal message.

 

Got it. Thanks a lot!

[Daudio]

Yikes! Just stumbled onto this thread. If anyone has any questions about the Regen session I participated in with Mark Waldrep a few days ago, let me know.

 

Russ,

 

Yeah, it'd be great to hear your experiences and impressions of the session. I'm reading all the Regens listeners feedback I can find, as a kind of soft 'database' to examine the range and groupings of peoples subjective vebalizations, and if it can say anything about how we hear.