Who Owns A Sonore Signature Rendu?

[DavidZ]

I have a Zuma, and had been using JRiver/Jremote. I recently switched to running minimserver on my syonology, with JPlay streamer on the Zuma, controlled with Bubbleupnp on my Android phone. Sound quality is miles ahead of what JRiver does. I like the Bubbleup as a control point, and don't really miss Jremote on my ipad. A Mojo Mystique DAC is used in both setups.

 

As good as the new setup is, I am still going to try the SSR. One of the nice things about the Mystique, besides general kick-assedness (don't think that's in dictionary), is that it can have an I2S input. It will be fun to try the Jriver as a DLNA server/controller vs. minmserver/SSR/Bubbleup. Adrian at Sonore, who originally turned me on to minimserver, said they favor the latter -- why have another computer (i.e., the Zuma) with extra clocks, etc., in the playback chain? Can't wait to try it. -- David

[sig8]

I have a Zuma, and had been using JRiver/Jremote. I recently switched to running minimserver on my syonology, with JPlay streamer on the Zuma, controlled with Bubbleupnp on my Android phone. Sound quality is miles ahead of what JRiver does. I like the Bubbleup as a control point, and don't really miss Jremote on my ipad. A Mojo Mystique DAC is used in both setups.

 

As good as the new setup is, I am still going to try the SSR. One of the nice things about the Mystique, besides general kick-assedness (don't think that's in dictionary), is that it can have an I2S input. It will be fun to try the Jriver as a DLNA server/controller vs. minmserver/SSR/Bubbleup. Adrian at Sonore, who originally turned me on to minimserver, said they favor the latter -- why have another computer (i.e., the Zuma) with extra clocks, etc., in the playback chain? Can't wait to try it. -- David

 

David: Let us know how feel. There are some who have made a similar switch including myself, and never looked back. I have a Lagoon CAPS 3 with JCAT USB, but finding MinimServer/SSR/DirectStream combo to be better. There is no other remote like JRemote...but. I am using Kazoo on iPad.

[DavidZ]

David: Let us know how feel. There are some who have made a similar switch including myself, and never looked back. I have a Lagoon CAPS 3 with JCAT USB, but finding MinimServer/SSR/DirectStream combo to be better. There is no other remote like JRemote...but. I am using Kazoo on iPad.

 

Signature8 -- Thanks. I should have the new SSR setup for trial in a few weeks. On a related note, I read something interesting attributed to Mark Jenkins of Antipodes Audio. He suggested mounting a NAS, like the synology. His contention is that the server then sees it as an external disk, and the communication is simpler and cleaner than in the DLNA protocol (if I understand what he is saying correctly) and presumably better sounding. Have you tried? Thanks. -- David

[rickca]

If I2S is superior to SPDIF and USB, why isn't it more widely implemented on DACs as an external interface?

[firedog]

If I2S is superior to SPDIF and USB, why isn't it more widely implemented on DACs as an external interface?

 

Because there is no standard for the format of the interface (RJ45, HDMI, etc);

Because there are almost no sources with it as an output (chicken and egg situation);

Because adding interfaces means extra costs;

Because it means knowing how to implement the engineering of something you've never done before and aren't familiar with;

Because even among audiophiles, it isn't a well known technology;

Because some people don't agree it's superior.

[sig8]

Signature8 -- Thanks. I should have the new SSR setup for trial in a few weeks. On a related note, I read something interesting attributed to Mark Jenkins of Antipodes Audio. He suggested mounting a NAS, like the synology. His contention is that the server then sees it as an external disk, and the communication is simpler and cleaner than in the DLNA protocol (if I understand what he is saying correctly) and presumably better sounding. Have you tried? Thanks. -- David

 

David: I am using it with Synology +415 NAS. I have MinimServer running on NAS, CAPS is turned OFF. I am keeping it to compare whenever I feel like, like I wanted to try new AO and JPlay6 (haven't spent much time, but initial impression was that MinimServer/SSR was better). I use Mp3Tag for tagging.

[DavidZ]

signature8 -- Thanks for the info. I plan on keeping the Zuma around, with jplay6, as a benchmark for the SSR. I just replaced the Pico PSU in the Zuma with a M4 ATX, plus a new quad-core cable connecting the Joule external power supply -- both by Mojo audio. Big improvement. Regarding Rickca's I2S question, I'm planning on listening to the SSR thru both spdif and I2S outputs. Firedog addressed the general question better than I could have.

[rickca]

Thanks, firedog. Given the issues designers talk about with SPDIF and USB, it makes sense to try to use I2S directly as an external interface. I guess implementing an ethernet to I2s solution is something not many have tried, so the SSR is really intriguing. The lack of a standard clearly hampers development.

 

I like devices that only offer one or two well engineered interfaces. To me it means the development costs have been directed to things that matter rather than trying to accommodate every potential user.

[firedog]

There is an "unofficial" standard developing for I2S over HDMI, as done by Wyred4Sound, Sonore and PSAudio. I think Emperical Audio is also joining this standard; but of the few makers, not all are on board.

Hopefully this will change. I would be interested in the SSR, but my current DAC doesn't support I2S. Maybe in a year or two when I seriously think about upgrading the DAC the situation will be different.

I did suggest to Vinnie Rossi that he consider adding I2S over HDMI to his new line of modular components. He wasn't familiar with the format, but after seeing that other manufacturers were using it, he said he would check it out and consider adding it.

 

I think your second paragraph really nails it. Most companies don't want to add development costs for another slightly used interface. That could change when/if a few more sources and DACs start to develop some kind of unofficial standard interface.

 

Thanks, firedog. Given the issues designers talk about with SPDIF and USB, it makes sense to try to use I2S directly as an external interface. I guess implementing an ethernet to I2s solution is something not many have tried, so the SSR is really intriguing. The lack of a standard clearly hampers development.

 

I like devices that only offer one or two well engineered interfaces. To me it means the development costs have been directed to things that matter rather than trying to accommodate every potential user.

[vortecjr]

There is an "unofficial" standard developing for I2S over HDMI, as done by Wyred4Sound, Sonore and PSAudio. I think Emperical Audio is also joining this standard; but of the few makers, not all are on board.

Hopefully this will change. I would be interested in the SSR, but my current DAC doesn't support I2S. Maybe in a year or two when I seriously think about upgrading the DAC the situation will be different.

I did suggest to Vinnie Rossi that he consider adding I2S over HDMI to his new line of modular components. He wasn't familiar with the format, but after seeing that other manufacturers were using it, he said he would check it out and consider adding it.

 

I think your second paragraph really nails it. Most companies don't want to add development costs for another slightly used interface. That could change when/if a few more sources and DACs start to develop some kind of unofficial standard interface.

 

I'm committed to LVDS i2s via HDMI and will add it wherever it makes sense to promote the format. However, the Signature Series Rendu is an excellent SPDIF source and thus compatible with most DACs including your Mytek DAC. I own a Mytek DAC and the combination can play up to 192 PCM and DSD64 via SPDIF so no excuses.

 

Jesus R

 

PS Any manufacturer that is designing a PCM capable DAC is already using i2s....even the ones that design with USB.

[kunarx]

I recently bought the SSR.

I am running MinimServer on a fanless synology NAS. BubbleUPNP as the controler.

 

I am loving the sound. Much better than my laptop running Windows Server and AO.

 

I am using the SPDIF out to my Dac. I2S may be better but I am very happy with what I have.

[wisnon]

I'm committed to LVDS i2s via HDMI and will add it wherever it makes sense to promote the format. However, the Signature Series Rendu is an excellent SPDIF source and thus compatible with most DACs including your Mytek DAC. I own a Mytek DAC and the combination can play up to 192 PCM and DSD64 via SPDIF so no excuses.

 

Jesus R

 

PS Any manufacturer that is designing a PCM capable DAC is already using i2s....even the ones that design with USB.

 

Still waiting on that demo unit for development! The Unique Selling Point of the SSR is the i2s and the Spdif is there for completing the value proposition (2nd egress).

[vortecjr]

Still waiting on that demo unit for development! The Unique Selling Point of the SSR is the i2s and the Spdif is there for completing the value proposition (2nd egress).

 

Right now I'm looking to modify an Amber DAC with i2s input for use with the Rendu. I'll report my findings to Lukasz and maybe he will get inspired and start to offer the solution to his customers....

 

Jesus R

[wisnon]

Right now I'm looking to modify an Amber DAC with i2s input for use with the Rendu. I'll report my findings to Lukasz and maybe he will get inspired and start to offer the solution to his customers....

 

Jesus R

Jesus, I already had him lined up and waiting for your demo unit. He already had it working for PCM and now DSD is the issue

 

Your work on the Amber will be in vain as that is the ONLY Lampi model without chipless DSD. It uses the Sabre Dac for PCM and DSD.

 

Oh and he will never offer an input solution for something he has not personally tested with an actual working Transport, and especially not for that kind of unconventional DSD playback technique.

 

Right now, the point may be moot for many as what I am hearing with the REGEN on the Lampi Amanero USB playing DSD128 is divine…and this is with the stock smps brick supplied and no Corning cable yet!

[vortecjr]

Jesus, I already had him lined up and waiting for your demo unit. He already had it working for PCM and now DSD is the issue

I'm just not able to send a demo unit at this time.

 

Your work on the Amber will be in vain as that is the ONLY Lampi model without chipless DSD. It uses the Sabre Dac for PCM and DSD.

I'm aware that the Amber is Sabre based and that is specifically why I want to try this solution on it.

 

Oh and he will never offer an input solution for something he has not personally tested with an actual working Transport, and especially not for that kind of unconventional DSD playback technique.

This is research project for me and I'm not asking or expecting anyone to do anything. The solution is as conventional as playing DSD via the units USB input.

 

Right now, the point may be moot for many as what I am hearing with the REGEN on the Lampi Amanero USB playing DSD128 is divine…and this is with the stock smps brick supplied and no Corning cable yet!

I have been making music server with SOtM cards for some time now and I understand that solution very well. However, the Rendu is a departure from that model and you don't need "anything" between it and your DAC.

 

Jesus R

[wisnon]

Jesus,

 

A SSR retails for $3K, so its more likely that a B5/6/7 or GG owner will get a SSR. Amber is $2K, so you really are not addressing your target profile. Recall my argument that it will benefit you to have more higher end Dac compatible with SSR for i2s (that is your UNIQUE selling point at the moment).

 

I have preached long enough and cant seem to get through, so I will gracefully withdraw with no malice or ill feelings. The decision is yours to make and you have made it.

[vortecjr]

Jesus,

 

A SSR retails for $3K, so its more likely that a B5/6/7 or GG owner will get a SSR. Amber is $2K, so you really are not addressing your target profile. Recall my argument that it will benefit you to have more higher end Dac compatible with SSR for i2s (that is your UNIQUE selling point at the moment).

 

I have preached long enough and cant seem to get through, so I will gracefully withdraw with no malice or ill feelings. The decision is yours to make and you have made it.

 

Trying to match the gear based on price is the wrong approach. The Rendu is a high quality one box solution that makes any product, regardless of price, sound great. One should try to get the best source possible so you don't have to end up fixing the problem with an external solution:)

 

It's not a matter of getting through or not. You have to understand that my goals are different than your...

 

Jesus R

[wisnon]

My goal was to help you out! Is your goal different than that?

 

Matching to price is commercial reality. Nobody will by a SSR to feed a Geek out DaC or a Schitt Loki…just not going to happen. To buy a $3K streamer takes a significant budget and people who have more expensive Dacs would tend to have that kind of budget. Being Ex-HP Marketing Finance, I know a bit about this area.

[vortecjr]

My goal was to help you out! Is your goal different than that?

 

Matching to price is commercial reality. Nobody will by a SSR to feed a Geek out DaC or a Schitt Loki…just not going to happen. To buy a $3K streamer takes a significant budget and people who have more expensive Dacs would tend to have that kind of budget. Being Ex-HP Marketing Finance, I know a bit about this area.

 

I know you are trying to help. However, my goal is high quality and low volume. When I designed the Rendu I knew there was a limited market for an i2s source. Your speculating and that does not make what you say true. I don't need to speculate because I actually know what devices my customers are using.

 

Jesus R

[wisnon]

Before the iphone was launched what were the future customers using?

 

In any case, loaner cost is peanuts, so the risk/reward ratio is high and the marketing rationale is sound.

[firedog]

Suggestion: time to stop using the thread to advise Jesus how to run his company.

 

Before the iphone was launched what were the future customers using?

 

In any case, loaner cost is peanuts, so the risk/reward ratio is high and the marketing rationale is sound.

[wisnon]

Suggestion taken.

[sig8]

I own a SSR and I have two DAC's; PS Audio DirectStream and Chord Hugo. I wanted to A/B these two DAC's with my SSR. I have been using DS with SSR's I2s output and I connected Hugo to SSR's SPDIF.

 

Initially I did not get DSD to play from SPDIF, but after some excellent one-to-one email support from Jesus of Sonore, he figured out that I needed to add dsf:dopwav under MinimServer Systems setting.

 

I do not know if others have tried it or not, but two things I can confirm; both outputs; I2s and SPDIF work simultaneously, and sound quality from both outputs is excellent (perhaps same, but I do not want to say that for know, without some more listening). Try it for yourself if your DAC has two inputs. I am contemplating trying out new Schiit Yggdrasil which is creating lot of buzz. This way I can connect two DAC's connecting via SSR. Schiit DAC doesn't do DSD, but we will see.

[ted_b]

I own a SSR and I have two DAC's; PS Audio DirectStream and Chord Hugo. I wanted to A/B these two DAC's with my SSR. I have been using DS with SSR's I2s output and I connected Hugo to SSR's SPDIF.

 

Initially I did not get DSD to play from SPDIF, but after some excellent one-to-one email support from Jesus of Sonore, he figured out that I needed to add dsf:dopwav under MinimServer Systems setting.

 

I do not know if others have tried it or not, but two things I can confirm; both outputs; I2s and SPDIF work simultaneously, and sound quality from both outputs is excellent (perhaps same, but I do not want to say that for know, without some more listening). Try it for yourself if your DAC has two inputs. I am contemplating trying out new Schiit Yggdrasil which is creating lot of buzz. This way I can connect two DAC's connecting via SSR. Schiit DAC doesn't do DSD, but we will see.

 

Yes, as per my posts (and DS review) I connect those two DACs the same. Best way to find out a more fair a/b of SSR's I2S and SPDIF is to do them on DS only (that way no DAC differences...which are big) come into play.

[vortecjr]

I own a SSR and I have two DAC's; PS Audio DirectStream and Chord Hugo. I wanted to A/B these two DAC's with my SSR. I have been using DS with SSR's I2s output and I connected Hugo to SSR's SPDIF.

 

Initially I did not get DSD to play from SPDIF, but after some excellent one-to-one email support from Jesus of Sonore, he figured out that I needed to add dsf:dopwav under MinimServer Systems setting.

 

I do not know if others have tried it or not, but two things I can confirm; both outputs; I2s and SPDIF work simultaneously, and sound quality from both outputs is excellent (perhaps same, but I do not want to say that for know, without some more listening). Try it for yourself if your DAC has two inputs. I am contemplating trying out new Schiit Yggdrasil which is creating lot of buzz. This way I can connect two DAC's connecting via SSR. Schiit DAC doesn't do DSD, but we will see.

 

You can enter the following for stream.transcode in the settings for MinimServer and it will transcode DSD to PCM in real time to 24 bit WAV for use with DACs that do not support DSD.

 

dsf:wav24;176

or

dsf:wav24;192

 

Jesus R