Who Owns A Sonore Signature Rendu?

[Superdad]

Best way to find out a more fair a/b of SSR's I2S and SPDIF is to do them on DS only (that way no DAC differences...which are big) come into play.

 

Hi Ted:

I'm sure you realize though that such a comparison becomes as much a commentary on the quality of the DAC's S/PDIF input as on the quality of the SSR's S/PDIF output.

[Audio_ELF]

There is an "unofficial" standard developing for I2S over HDMI, as done by Wyred4Sound, Sonore and PSAudio.

 

I'm committed to LVDS i2s via HDMI and will add it wherever it makes sense to promote the format.

I do wish people - especially manufacturers - would write this correctly. It is NOT i2s over HDMI; it is running (LVDS) i2s over HDM cabling.

 

There is a subtle but distinct difference akin to the difference between Cat5 and Ethernet.

[ted_b]

Hi Ted:

I'm sure you realize though that such a comparison becomes as much a commentary on the quality of the DAC's S/PDIF input as on the quality of the SSR's S/PDIF output.

 

Sure, of course, but it reduces his variables considerably. The other way he is comparing two different DACs and unaware if, to your point, their inputs differ anyway.

[firedog]

I do wish people - especially manufacturers - would write this correctly. It is NOT i2s over HDMI; it is running (LVDS) i2s over HDM cabling.

 

There is a subtle but distinct difference akin to the difference between Cat5 and Ethernet.

 

noted.

[vortecjr]

I do wish people - especially manufacturers - would write this correctly. It is NOT i2s over HDMI; it is running (LVDS) i2s over HDM cabling.

 

There is a subtle but distinct difference akin to the difference between Cat5 and Ethernet.

 

We should really say that the Rendu supports LVDS i2s / DSD over HDMI cable.

 

Jesus R

[barrows]

I know it is a bit long in the tooth, but there is one important thing to note regarding the Sonore Signature Rendu:

 

The SPDIF output is not a value added feature, and the I2S output is not the main strength of the unit.

 

To be sure, the SPDIF output of the SSR is outstanding, and uses a proprietary design, which has a lot to do with its performance. Indeed, the SPDIF output of the SSR is intended to be the very best SPDIF source possible, and is very special.

 

The entire purpose of the SSR is to be the best SPDIF and I2S source possible, and nothing is compromised in the design of either output. Anyone whose DAC has an SPDIF input can be confident that they will get the best performance possible from that input on their DAC, and the SPDIF transmitter of the SSR is designed to make the DAC's SPDIF receiver work spectacularly well, by making sure the SPDIF wave shape is as perfect as possible.

[vgrubb]

I finally sat down and listened yesterday after having my SSR setup and running all week. I heard the best digital sound I've ever heard. After all I'd read, I expected a lot and actually got more than I expected. I've had a JPlay dual PC setup, an Aries and currently have a Mac Mini with MMK and JS-2 into a Regan (which sounds very good also). But the SSR going I2S into my Directstream just beats everything I've heard. I doubt I'll ever listen to the turntable again. I really appreciate the effort Jesus, Burrows, Swenson and Crespi have put into the Rendu and other products to advance what is attainable in computer audio. We are fortunate to have guys like this out there to help us achieve our listening pleasure. Thank you guys. In my ~15 years of using a computer as the primary source, I am finally content.

[MikeJazz]

I finally sat down and listened yesterday after having my SSR setup and running all week. I heard the best digital sound I've ever heard. After all I'd read, I expected a lot and actually got more than I expected. I've had a JPlay dual PC setup, an Aries and currently have a Mac Mini with MMK and JS-2 into a Regan (which sounds very good also). But the SSR going I2S into my Directstream just beats everything I've heard. I doubt I'll ever listen to the turntable again. I really appreciate the effort Jesus, Burrows, Swenson and Crespi have put into the Rendu and other products to advance what is attainable in computer audio. We are fortunate to have guys like this out there to help us achieve our listening pleasure. Thank you guys. In my ~15 years of using a computer as the primary source, I am finally content.

 

very impressive...thanks for the feedback.

[DavidL]

I finally sat down and listened yesterday after having my SSR setup and running all week. I heard the best digital sound I've ever heard. After all I'd read, I expected a lot and actually got more than I expected. I've had a JPlay dual PC setup, an Aries and currently have a Mac Mini with MMK and JS-2 into a Regan (which sounds very good also). But the SSR going I2S into my Directstream just beats everything I've heard. I doubt I'll ever listen to the turntable again. I really appreciate the effort Jesus, Burrows, Swenson and Crespi have put into the Rendu and other products to advance what is attainable in computer audio. We are fortunate to have guys like this out there to help us achieve our listening pleasure. Thank you guys. In my ~15 years of using a computer as the primary source, I am finally content.

 

Slightly off-topic but has anyone been able to do a sound-quality comparison between the SSR into the DS via I2S with that from ethernet input to the Bridge II board in the DS?

 

I wonder whether adding optical ethernet isolation immediately upstream of the Bridge in the DS might possibly tip the balance in favour of the bridge input - any thoughts?

[barrows]

Slightly off-topic but has anyone been able to do a sound-quality comparison between the SSR into the DS via I2S with that from ethernet input to the Bridge II board in the DS?

 

I wonder whether adding optical ethernet isolation immediately upstream of the Bridge in the DS might possibly tip the balance in favour of the bridge input - any thoughts?

 

 

I have not made the comparison, but I can offer some insight into this from a technical perspective, as I have been inside the PS Audio DS DAC and am quite familiar with how the bridge works internally in the unit.

My suspicion is that the SSR will trump the Bridge, but without an actual listening test and some measurements I will not state such. What I do know is the following:

 

DS with Bridge: the Network Bridge is installed in a slot in the rear of the DS, it is not shielded from the other circuitry of the DAC in any way, so any RF radiation from the ethernet processing board is free to migrate around in the case and find its way into the Analog output, or to corrupt the ground plane and effect the noise level of the power supplies running the critical DAC clock, etc. The Network bridge delivers I2S signals to the DS' input board over a standard ribbon cable of a fairly long length, using standard IDC connectors, this is not an ideal way to deal with high speed digital signals: I have seen some waveform measurements of ribbon cables with IDC connectors, and those measurements were enough to make me very uneasy in using them for high speed digital signals. I would much prefer using either card edge connectors and short (less than 10 cm) FFC cables, or U.FL micro BNC cables. The PS Audio DS uses a single transformer for all internal power supplies (with multiple secondaries) and there is a dedicated, but ordinary, LM 317 voltage regulator to provide power to the Network Bridge board, so any noise from the Network Bridge's power supplies could capacitively couple with the other supplies for the DAC. By no means I am trying to suggest that PS Audio has done something wrong, as all of this is pretty standard manufacturing practice for audio components at this price point, but I am suggesting that there is room for improvement, with an increase in cost and retail price.

 

DS with the Sonore Signature Rendu: Being in a separate, very heavy gauge aluminum and steel chassis, any noise generated by the Ethernet processing board is shielded from all the DAC circuitry. Internally, I2S signals in the SSR are passed from the Ethernet processing board to the isolated output and re-clocking board over a 5 cm length of FFC cable, reducing any degradation of the high speed signals due to transmission issues. Of course, internally the SSR has its own power supply, so it is not going to have any opportunity to contaminate the power supply of the DS DAC. Additionally, the SSR internally uses two dedicated power supplies, isolated, to keep all the processing noise from the Ethernet board isolated from the clock/output board, and the pre-regulator for the Ethernet processing board is an ultra low noise, ultra low output impedance discrete circuit, which performs about 2 times better than a standard LM-317 IC regulator.

 

As to the isolation issue, the SSR isolates the Ethernet processing board from the clocks and output board (where the I2S and SPDIF data streams are re-clocked just before output), this approach is going to offer the lowest jitter possible.

 

So, from a technical perspective, one can see that there are many reasons why one could expect better performance with the DS/SSR than with the DS/Bridge, of course, this difference does not come for free, and until listening tests and measurements are done, it is impossible to conclude for certain that the SSR/DS will be better, but I would be very surprised if it was not.

[alcarp]

Need some advice on how to connect the SSR. I have a Synology NAS on which my music files are stored. I currently have a NUC running JRiver connected via USB to my DAC. Music folders on the NAS are mounted on the NUC.

 

Can I connect the SSR via Ethernet to the router and fetch files from the NUC running JRiver as long as both SSR and NUC are connected to the same network even though there is no physical connection between NUC and SSR? Can I control playback using JRemote under this scenario?

[firedog]

Need some advice on how to connect the SSR. I have a Synology NAS on which my music files are stored. I currently have a NUC running JRiver connected via USB to my DAC. Music folders on the NAS are mounted on the NUC.

 

Can I connect the SSR via Ethernet to the router and fetch files from the NUC running JRiver as long as both SSR and NUC are connected to the same network even though there is no physical connection between NUC and SSR? Can I control playback using JRemote under this scenario?

 

Yes, you can play back files this way, but the SSR output needs to be connected to your DAC. It doesn't have a USB out; you have to use one of the existing digital ports on the SSR to the same type of digital input on your DAC: SPDIF, I2S...

[alcarp]

Thanks @firedog.

 

Does anyone know if Roon is planned for the SSR?

[firedog]

Thanks @firedog.

 

Does anyone know if Roon is planned for the SSR?

 

I asked this somewhere, I don't know if here or at audiocircle.com.

The answer I got was "possibly". I'm betting they upgrade it to include it, as they've already said the micro Rendu device will include Roon speakers, and I can't imagine they won't have their flagship device not have it once that happens.

[Audio_ELF]

I asked this somewhere, I don't know if here or at audiocircle.com.

The answer I got was "possibly". I'm betting they upgrade it to include it, as they've already said the micro Rendu device will include Roon speakers, and I can't imagine they won't have their flagship device not have it once that happens.

I thought the answer was "unlikely".

 

The microRendu and the SSR are completely different devices in terms of architecture - the microRendu being (iirc) an Arm based design running Linux vs the SSR which doesn't have a conventional processor or Operating System at all.

[barrows]

Thanks @firedog.

 

Does anyone know if Roon is planned for the SSR?

 

The SSR is a UPnP device, at this time Roon does not support UPnP. For the SSR to work with Roon, my understanding is that the Roon guys would have to support UPnP.

 

I am also a little apprehensive, personally, about Roon, as it requires a fair amount of processing power to work, as well as taking up a lot of WiFi bandwidth for the remote app. In my experience, more processing power leads to lower sound quality. We had a Roon/Linux setup at RMAF, using the Sonic Orbiter as a Roon speaker device, and the sound quality was clearly not up to par with the SSR. Of course, this is likely the result of the SO hardware not being the equal of the SSR (nor should it be, as it is quite a bit more affordable). But I was kind of perplexed by how crazy the Roon App was, and how much WiFi bandwidth it seemed to use.

 

Still not sure what all the fuss is about with Roon myself, it does not really seem like a package which was designed with absolute sound quality performance as a primary goal, but until everything is available and running, we will not really know much about that. I sure would not want to run Roon on a music server directly feeding an audio system, as there is way too much going on in that approach for my peace of mind.

[chip]

Hi all,

This topic has been quiet for the last 6 months. Nothing new to report? I have a couple of questions if anybody is still around.

 

I have:

Linksys Gigabit Ethernet switch

CAT6a cabling

QNAP NAS

JRiver MC21 setup for the DS using PS Audio's instructions

PS Audio DirectStream DAC with BridgeII

two other streaming DACs

All devices are connected to the same switch with CAT6a cabling

 

I am not very happy with the BridgeII and consider it an unfinished product the way it is now.

Too many times it will not advance to the next track or just stops playing a track and skips to the next track or just stops playing. I usually have to power cycle the DS to get the system to work again.

 

I have been told everything in my setup is wrong or could be wrong at various times.

Replace this or that.

Restart everything.

Change cables.

I have faithfully tried everything suggested and the problem remains.

This is more than frustrating since I do not have these problems when streaming directly to the other Streaming DACs in my house.

Others have said the problem is with the DLNA / UPnP software/technology.

 

I like the sound of he DS DAC when it is working so I started trying to find an alternative to the BridgeII and came across the SSR. Reviews all seemed positive so I started looking around to see what I could find and found this thread.

 

OK, enough background.

 

I do have a some questions that someone may be able to enlighten me on.

 

Is DLNA and UPnP related?

From my reading today I seem to think that DLNA is an improvement on or an extension of UPnP.

Is this correct?

Since the SSR is a UPnP device is it also a DLNA device?

 

Roon

After reading several threads in the Roon Community I realize that they do not like the UPnP /DLNA protocol. Understandable since their protocol is a competing protocol. From the posts I read by their management I doubt they would ever implement UPnP/DLNA in their product when they consider it inferior to their protocol.

After reading about how Roon works it seems the receiving device would need to have their RAAT protocol installed and running over the Ethernet connection to create the Roon Endpoint that can be addressed by the Roon system.

Anyone have a different opinion?

Implementing the protocol over Ethernet creates a Roon Ready endpoint.

Am I missing something here?

 

Sonore Products

I see new products from Sonore are labeled as Roon Ready so Sonore has experience with Roon implementations.

The SSR is identified as a UPnP device with an Ethernet connection to receive music files over a network.

Is the SSR also a DLNA device?

Will the Roon RAAT protocol be implemented in the SSR to become a Roon Endpoint?

 

Sorry about the length of this post but I have been my research and just thought this thread might help me with some last questions or correct me if I have strayed down the wrong train of thought.

 

Thanks,

Chip

[digilog5]

Well although I don't know the exact network protocol nomenclature related to DLNA, it is a standard for shared network media availability. The SSR does connect to a network similar to the bridge and is visible as DLNA renderer by Upnp/DLNA controller points (applications) such as PlugPlayer, bubble, Synology DS Audio Etc...

I am using the SSR with i2s to a W4S Dac2 for a year now and I think its an amazing playback system.

I am not sure why you are using the Jriver in the chain though. If your files reside in the Qnap NAS, then that's all that should be needed.

My chain is:

 

Synology DS1515+ (runs DS-Audio server and BubbleUPNP/Tidal)

HP Gigabit switcher / Asus router

MOCA adapter in server room (sender)

MOCA adapter (receiver) on IFI power supply to Sonore SSR

Cat6a (Benden cable supplied with SSR - this is important) to SSR

and I2S to DAC

 

Everything from URL radio streams, to 24/192k and Tidal play near instantly. Track to track changes are also near instantaneous.

I cannot offer an opinion on Roon compatibility. I don't believe it is compatible. Although once you hear the quality of this as transport, with DLNA or good radio streams you will be very impressed to say the least. Space, air, natural timbre, focus are all there. Very few times, if I overdo it with changing tracks very quickly my IOS app might hang for few moments but that's rare and I just restart the app. For the majority of playback I use Synology's DS-Audio app on IOS for anything DLNA and Linn's Kazoo for Tidal.

[Jd7744]

Wondering if anyone can comment on the i2s implementation in the SS described in this forum and that described by the folks at Musica Pristina in their A Capella player A Cappella - Musica Pristina.