Uptone Audio Regen

[Superdad]

Prior to reading it, I had assumed that the only people who had stacked two Regens were those in possession of one green and one amber. Is that the case or do we already have some fans with two ambers?

 

Hi Mike:

 

Yes, quite a few people have ordered more than one, but I don't know if they are for one system or more.

But there is no reason for a green/amber to sound any better than an amber/amber pair. And the resistance on the ground and shields of the "amber" (the only thing that makes it different form the original "greens") is not large enough to bother anything. Besides, only the cable coming in sees it; and the interface between 2 REGENs could care less.

 

That gets me thinking:

Larry, can you go ahead and try your green/amber units in the other order--so amber>green--and let us know what you hear?

That way the USB ground line from your computer/cable will encounter our added resistance in the first REGEN. So that might end up being the better sounding order for a green/amber cascade.

[Nicholas_S]

Hi Nicholas:

Do you have actual isolation transformers from Tripp-Lite? Something like this one? Medical Grade Isolation Transformer 250W(IS250HG) | Tripp Lite Or some other product type entirely?

And if you do have one of their current model isolation transformers, can you tell me which model and if it has much mechanical hum? Big 1:1 transformers that are quiet are hard to find.

 

Thanks,

--Alex C.

 

Hi Alex... I have a pair of Tripp-Lite IS-1000 isolation transformers that were designed for/marketed to hospitals. They are rated at 1000 watts and each have four outlets. There is zero mechanical hum from either unit.

 

Curiously, I procured them several years back for use with my audio sources and didn't particularly like their effect so they've roosted in a closet until enlisted recently for their service with wall warts (at which they excel). BTW, they are exceedingly heavy and place a challenge with both placement and real estate on my rack.

 

Best,

 

Nick

 

[cmarin]

Just got my Amber Regen, thanks Alex!, and I too, as others have found, couldn't use the short adapter due to space constraints in the back of my DAC.

 

Has anyone found a 90 degree version of the the inline adapter supplied with the Regen? I've seen discussions about it, but haven't seen anyone identify an option. Perhaps I missed it? Thanks.

[Daudio]

... if the principles of the Regen could also be applied to RCA and XLR interconnects.

 

I have no idea how one might go about doing that !!??!!

 

But, there are already good principles to appy to RCA and XLR wiring: grounding, contact treatment, cable selection, sizing, and routing.

 

I've long thought those were sufficient

[YashN]

So cascading 2 REGENs obviously improves the SI for the DAC-connected REGEN, which in turn improves things a lithe at its output.

 

If John and I didn't have 2-3 other exciting products already in the works, I'd bug him to consider a double-REGEN board.

 

Anyone try Amber + Amber already? At what point do you get diminishing returns if at all?

[lmitche]

Hi Mike:

 

Yes, quite a few people have ordered more than one, but I don't know if they are for one system or more.

But there is no reason for a green/amber to sound any better than an amber/amber pair. And the resistance on the ground and shields of the "amber" (the only thing that makes it different form the original "greens") is not large enough to bother anything. Besides, only the cable coming in sees it; and the interface between 2 REGENs could care less.

 

That gets me thinking:

Larry, can you go ahead and try your green/amber units in the other order--so amber>green--and let us know what you hear?

That way the USB ground line from your computer/cable will encounter our added resistance in the first REGEN. So that might end up being the better sounding order for a green/amber cascade.

 

Hi Alex,

 

Funny, I had the same thought and tested the amber->green config yesterday. It did not sound as good as the green->amber config.

 

Nevertheless I will do this test again to ensure that I did not mess up the power supply order. As you know, I use TrippLite isolation transformers, and have three AC zones 1) Windows machine LPS running minimserver/HQP, hardisk enclosure, SSD LPS, and FMC#1 2) SMS-100, FMC#2 and REGEN green and 3) DAC and Amber REGEN with floating ground enabled on my amp. I realize that I may have crossed REGEN power supply cables across zones 2 and 3 spoiling the experiment, so re-testing will eliminate that variable.

 

FYI - I am using the MW SMPS on the amber REGEN.

 

Today, I removed the hard adapter between the REGENs and tested alternatives. I was able to build a U-shaped adapter with two right angle USB 3 hard adapters and 3 straight adapters. The SQ was not as good as a single adapter, but I could live with it. Lastly I built an 8 inch three wire USB 2.0 cable using Belden star quad. Soldering this was a PITA, I am surprised it worked, but happily it sounds as good or better than the hard adapter it replaced. This allows me to place the SMS-100 on top of the DAC, with the green REGEN connected to the amber REGEN with this short cable. Not bad for $12 in parts.

 

So at the end of this day, my system sounds better than ever. Just amazing. Many thanks to John and yourself for your efforts.

 

I'll try to find time tomorrow to re-test the amber-> green config.

[lmitche]

I have no idea how one might go about doing that !!??!!

 

But, there are already good principles to appy to RCA and XLR wiring: grounding, contact treatment, cable selection, sizing, and routing.

 

I've long thought those were sufficient

 

Have you ever researched a Tortuga audio preamp? It uses light for volume control. I don't know if it isolates input from output as well, but I'll find out. It does take an external power supply.

[Daudio]

Hi Nicholas:

Do you have actual isolation transformers from Tripp-Lite? Something like this one? Medical Grade Isolation Transformer 250W(IS250HG) | Tripp Lite Or some other product type entirely?

 

Alex or anybody,

 

How is a isolation transformer different then a Line Stabilizer/Conditioner ? I have a old Tripp Lite LS-604 that used to protect previous computer systems.

 

That Tripp Lite web page was Very Well designed ! Looked fine, and offered up easy access to what I wanted to know. Unfortunately a quality not that common on the web.

[lmitche]

I use a Tripp lite IS-1000 at the root of my power system. My amp and 4 tripplite IS250s form the power zones. When I hear a hum it indicates a ground loop, so it is useful that way as well.

[rocky]

I have no idea how one might go about doing that !!??!!

 

But, there are already good principles to appy to RCA and XLR wiring: grounding, contact treatment, cable selection, sizing, and routing.

 

I've long thought those were sufficient

 

I brought a couple from my local electronic store. I did not use them as I used right angle RCA adapters instead.

 

But on ebay, just search for USB right angle adapter. here is a couple below but you have to look closely as they come in different options. eg. How the cables plug into them, what angle the device will be once plugged into them etc.

 

Right Angle USB 3 0 Type A Male TO Female Plug Super Speed Connector Adapter KK | eBay

USB A Male TO Female Extension Cable 90 Degree Right Angle Adapter Plug | eBay

 

This is a good example of the slight difference. If you look close at A and B, they will go in different directions when you plug them in.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-3-0-High-Speed-Type-A-Male-to-Female-Plug-90-Right-Angle-Connector-Adapter-/151711701437?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2352b8d9bd

[Kafy]

Thanks for your feedback... regrettable there is now way I can make it look nice, the cable will stick out underneath the Devialet. I am looking to see if I can get an 90 degree solid adapter--it may work, but I also think that if have to use more solid adapters I will be better off with using a short cable, I assume that one want to limit the number of interfaces/plugs.

 

When the Regen had had a week or so I will try to experiment with the different options... and in the meantime look at e-bay for adapters. Ohhh what a wonderful hobby :-)

 

Kind regards Morten

 

 

I am maybe wrong but I think you can directly send the music from you PC to the devialet through the lan. No need of USB connexion. There is a driver from devialet to install into your PC which simulate an output audio. You can select it into your player as destination. This driver will send to the devialet directly through the Lan.

In fact, I am sure you really need a Regen.

[rocky]

Whoops wrong thread...sorry

[steklo]

Lastly I built an 8 inch three wire USB 2.0 cable using Belden star quad. Soldering this was a PITA, I am surprised it worked, but happily it sounds as good or better than the hard adapter it replaced.

 

Hi Imitche,

 

would you mind telling us how you made that cables? Maybe you have some pictures?

Do you habe a part# to source the right cable from Belden catalogue?

 

Best regards

Stefan

[rocky]

Just got my Amber Regen, thanks Alex!, and I too, as others have found, couldn't use the short adapter due to space constraints in the back of my DAC.

 

Has anyone found a 90 degree version of the the inline adapter supplied with the Regen? I've seen discussions about it, but haven't seen anyone identify an option. Perhaps I missed it? Thanks.

 

I quoted the wrong person in my above post.

But here is my Dac now with the right angle adapter. I don't think I have lost anything to the sound except it looks a little wierd.

 

[4est]

They have been doing this for decades. It is called a pre-amplifier or buffer..

I tend to view a product like the regen as a first order variable... it can potentially have a large impact on performance because its in-line with signal. Improved power supplies are more of a second order variable... you might get a 15% change given all the other inteferences in a real world system.

 

My suspicion is that manufacturers haven't paid attention to stabilizing electrical interaction between audio equipment and my experiences with the unpredictability of interconnect cables suggests to me a bigger market opportunity exists if the principles of the Regen could also be applied to RCA and XLR interconnects.

[ogs]

I am maybe wrong but I think you can directly send the music from you PC to the devialet through the lan. No need of USB connexion. There is a driver from devialet to install into your PC which simulate an output audio. You can select it into your player as destination. This driver will send to the devialet directly through the Lan.

In fact, I am sure you really need a Regen.

 

Kafy, you are correct. There is a virtual sound card driver for the Devialet amps called AIR (Asynchronous Intelligent Route). It works on wireless and wired connections and is available for MAC and Windows.

 

Problem is it is very unstable/unreliable and can generate loud white noise instead of music. Not all users experience the white noise, but those that do will avoid using AIR and often uses USB instead. AES/EBU and Coax S/PDIF is also an option.

 

With the Regen, USB is maybe the best input option for a Devialet amp. Definitely on par with AIR. I say 'maybe' as some will find AES/EBU better if the equipment in use has high quality AES/EBU output.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Not sure where to post this, there are so many threads on the Regen, and posts on the expected Regen Power Adapter Thingamajig...

 

Alex, you mentioned this new gizmo would accept up to 12V. Am curious to know whether it can input 12V and output 9V (or 7.5V) to the Regen (since I understand the Regen should not be connected to 12V if the DAC's USB input is not self-powered) ?

 

Thanks.

[lmitche]

Hi Imitche,

 

would you mind telling us how you made that cables? Maybe you have some pictures?

Do you habe a part# to source the right cable from Belden catalogue?

 

Best regards

Stefan

 

Hi Stefan,

 

I used this cable from Amazon:

 

Amazon.com: Belden Brilliance 1192A 24 AWG 4C Star Quad Mic / Line Cable Tinned Copper Braid Shield Per ft. USA: Musical Instruments

 

And USB parts from Digikey:

 

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[steklo]

Hi Imitche,

 

thanks! How did you do the wiring? I guess you didn't wire the 5V connectors – that means you have 4 wires for three lines. Did you connect the cable's shielding to the ground wire? And what about the outer shield of the plugs themselves?

 

Best

Stefan

[4est]

Jeez, can't people just wait a couple of months for them to finish the product. I am sure all will be explained, and if it is intended for the Regen it will function properly and not blow up if your DAC requires power.

Not sure where to post this, there are so many threads on the Regen, and posts on the expected Regen Power Adapter Thingamajig...

 

Alex, you mentioned this new gizmo would accept up to 12V. Am curious to know whether it can input 12V and output 9V (or 7.5V) to the Regen (since I understand the Regen should not be connected to 12V if the DAC's USB input is not self-powered) ?

 

Thanks.

[cmarin]

Rocky,

 

Thank you for your response.

 

I have ordered a similar piece. It should arrive tomorrow.

 

But as others have suggested, this solution requires using two adapters in series which could result in degrading the SQ.

 

Folks have reported improvement in SQ when using the short adapter versus the supplied short USB cable Did you hear an improvement over the supplied USB cable when you installed the 90 degree adapter?

 

Thanks.

[rocky]

Rocky,

 

Thank you for your response.

 

I have ordered a similar piece. It should arrive tomorrow.

 

But as others have suggested, this solution requires using two adapters in series which could result in degrading the SQ.

 

Folks have reported improvement in SQ when using the short adapter versus the supplied short USB cable Did you hear an improvement over the supplied USB cable when you installed the 90 degree adapter?

 

Thanks.

 

None that I can pick so far. I have tried with just the Regen adapter and now added the USB right angle as well.

Sounds great. More listening to come. Not going to worry about the short cable as I can get it to work with just the adapters.

Though I am still not sure on different power adapters yet but I am not getting the harness like the first day with the SMPS.

If anything the SMPS now sounds just a touch subdued.

[Morten]

Yep, ogs are right, I use Jplay and it do not work with Devialet AIR, and Jplay via USB is superior to AIR (By a fair bit) also without the regen.

 

Kind regards Morten

[lmitche]

Hi Imitche,

 

thanks! How did you do the wiring? I guess you didn't wire the 5V connectors – that means you have 4 wires for three lines. Did you connect the cable's shielding to the ground wire? And what about the outer shield of the plugs themselves?

 

Best

Stefan

 

Yes, no power, just three pins 2,3,4, D- one pair,D- second pair and shield for ground. You can see the details here:

 

How Starquad Works

 

For expedience, I connected the ground to both the USB shell and pin 4 at each end expecting that the amber REGEN will sort out any problems here. Perhaps I should have floated the USB shield, but it sounds great nevertheless.

[Superdad]

How Starquad Works

 

Hi Larry, thanks for the link. I've been a star-quad fan for decades (first tried Canare star-quad microphone cable as line level audio interconnect in the late 1970s), and at Hovland the interconnect wire we had made for us--for use inside our preamps/amps and also as a popular interconnect--was silver-plated, teflon-insulated, star-quad with a braided shield over an inner jacket for spacing.

 

One of the most important features of star-quad that I was surprised was not mentioned in the Belden paper is that with the round 4-conductor bundle of a quad the shield is equidistant around them. Whereas in a shielded single twisted pair the shield distance varies from point to point--first being closer to one wire and then the other.

 

 

Glad you had fun making a USB cable. Now if only it was easier to find nice 90-ohm TPs and quads to do that with...