Mutec MC-3+

[zoltan]

31 minutes ago, mourip said:

Try the Auricap and see. It is about experimentation. It will probably be better than not using one at all.

 

 

Thank you, I will probably install two in parallel, that may be even better. 

I would like to ask you a favour of some sort. I would really like to know if the "LPS modded Mutec" sounds better with its original 6.3V or equally good with 5V. Some people reported that it works fine with Uptone's LPS-1 at 5V but they had no chance to compare to higher voltages. I guess most people would be scared to try 7V which is the next step on LPS-1. 

 

You could lower the voltage to 5 V and see if it is any compromise. I think that would be a very valuable contribution to this thread 

[mourip]

51 minutes ago, zoltan said:

 

Thank you, I will probably install two in parallel, that may be even better. 

I would like to ask you a favour of some sort. I would really like to know if the "LPS modded Mutec" sounds better with its original 6.3V or equally good with 5V. Some people reported that it works fine with Uptone's LPS-1 at 5V but they had no chance to compare to higher voltages. I guess most people would be scared to try 7V which is the next step on LPS-1. 

 

You could lower the voltage to 5 V and see if it is any compromise. I think that would be a very valuable contribution to this thread 

 

Sorry. My LPS requires taking the lid off to adjust the variable output and the box is now tucked behind my rack. It is completely stable at 6.3. I measured the Mutec at 6.3 when I opened it up previously so I am not inclined to change it right now.

 

I do know that 5v fixed voltage PSUs are easy to find but personally I would recommend sticking with Mutec's stock 6.3v. If you decide to try it let us know how it goes.

 

You might check out Head-Fi. There is a DIY thread where experimentation was done with the Mutec voltages.

 

Good luck!

 

[Confused]

On ‎09‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:34 PM, mourip said:

Regarding the capacitor. Probably anything over 15v and 50mf would be fine. I think that mine was 25v and 680mf because I just had it handy. I would caution about using one that is too large in capacitance as it might trigger over-current protection when you turn on your LPS, assuming it has that protection. Otherwise I would vote for 50 to 1000mf. I put the cap in there sort of reflexively after building many power supplies for analog devices where there are often transient needs for power. I would image that the Mutec uses a pretty unvarying amount. Just a guess. Anyway the results were certainly good!

This may be a very stupid question, but to clarify I am not an expert in this area.  I have an interest in doing the LPSU mod on my own Mutec MC3+USB.  I had assumed that once access has been obtained it was a case of removing the Mutec's SMPS, and then connecting the power from a LPSU to the Mutec's mainboard power input as previously fed by the internal SMPS.  But is a capacitor needed?  Or is this just a subtly of the 'longish' LPSU cable you mentioned? 

[mourip]

22 minutes ago, Confused said:

This may be a very stupid question, but to clarify I am not an expert in this area.  I have an interest in doing the LPSU mod on my own Mutec MC3+USB.  I had assumed that once access has been obtained it was a case of removing the Mutec's SMPS, and then connecting the power from a LPSU to the Mutec's mainboard power input as previously fed by the internal SMPS.  But is a capacitor needed?  Or is this just a subtly of the 'longish' LPSU cable you mentioned? 

 

I wish that no question was treated as stupid on CA :-)

 

You are not missing anything. I just have a habit of adding some local capacitance near to the main electronics when I make an outboard power supply. My cable is not that long(~18") but I figure that the original SMPS probably had a capacitor on it's output that was way less than an inch from the main board. I have even added local bypass caps with my CAPS server and RedNet D16 which both now have external LPSs.

 

Basically it might not matter but it could so I added it...

[afrancois]

1 hour ago, mourip said:

 

I wish that no question was treated as stupid on CA :-)

 

You are not missing anything. I just have a habit of adding some local capacitance near to the main electronics when I make an outboard power supply. My cable is not that long(~18") but I figure that the original SMPS probably had a capacitor on it's output that was way less than an inch from the main board. I have even added local bypass caps with my CAPS server and RedNet D16 which both now have external LPSs.

 

Basically it might not matter but it could so I added it...

The cable I used is 14 inches long, but it is a Canare 4S6 Star Quad. I didn't use a capacitor and it sounds wonderful.

[mourip]

7 hours ago, afrancois said:

The cable I used is 14 inches long, but it is a Canare 4S6 Star Quad. I didn't use a capacitor and it sounds wonderful.

 

Yup, the switch to an LPS is definitely worthwhile.

[catcando]

Just a quick update.

I am now using two Mutec MC3+USB. More of everything!

I emailed Chris at Mutec, and he said some customers, who are using two Mutec's, are connecting the clock output, from the first one, to the clock input, of the second one, and setting the second one to EXT/RLCK.

 

[SwissBear]

1 hour ago, catcando said:

Just a quick update.

I am now using two Mutec MC3+USB. More of everything!

I emailed Chris at Mutec, and he said some customers, who are using two Mutec's, are connecting the clock output, from the first one, to the clock input, of the second one, and setting the second one to EXT/RLCK.

 

Interesting. This is putting you on the tracks for the Ref-10

[catcando]

48 minutes ago, SwissBear said:

Interesting. This is putting you on the tracks for the Ref-10

 

Not a chance. TOO EXPENSIVE!

Two MC3's, is still only a third of the price, of a Ref10.

[mourip]

4 hours ago, catcando said:

Just a quick update.

I am now using two Mutec MC3+USB. More of everything!

I emailed Chris at Mutec, and he said some customers, who are using two Mutec's, are connecting the clock output, from the first one, to the clock input, of the second one, and setting the second one to EXT/RLCK.

 

 

I thought that you could only get the wclk out from the M3USB when you were also providing it with an external reference like the REF10?

 

[catcando]

Evidently not, as this was suggested by Chris, from Mutec, as relayed to him form other users.

I am doing it, and it works fine.

[mourip]

9 minutes ago, catcando said:

Evidently not, as this was suggested by Chris, from Mutec, as relayed to him form other users.

I am doing it, and it works fine.

 

Interesting. So your first M3USB is set to internal wclk and the second one to external wcklk? And both doing reclocking?

 

I would be interested in a description of your chain.

 

Thanks.

[m5sime]

47 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

Interesting. So your first M3USB is set to internal wclk and the second one to external wcklk? And both doing reclocking?

 

I would be interested in a description of your chain.

 

Thanks.

It should just mean the master references are identical for both re clock processes. I use the clock out of my Mutec into my Brooklyn DAC so I can have both devices synchronised and the audio connects via AES balanced.

 

 

[catcando]

51 minutes ago, mourip said:

I would be interested in a description of your chain.

The first MC3 is set to INT/RCLK

The AES output from my Ayon transport, goes into the AES input of the first MC3.

The USB output of my Innuos streamer, goes into the USB input of the first MC3.

The AES output of the first MC3 goes to the AES input of the second MC3. (Opt 1) The MC3 is set to Int/WCLK

The AES output of the second goes to my Ayon DAC.

 

The BNC  output W/CLK of the first MC3 goes to the BNC W/CLK input of the second MC3. (Opt 2)  The MC3 is set to Ext/WCLK

The AES output of my second MC3,  goes to my Ayon DAC.

[mourip]

Thanks. Sounds like I was misinformed. That config looks like the best clocking option unless one has a reference clock to time them all.

 

In my testing I did not find the second M3USB necessary but this must certainly be system dependent.

 

Take a look at the REF10 thread. Yesterday I posted my testing comparing various combinations. It will give a cleared picture of what I was doing.

 

Without the REF10 I would certainly try it your way.

 

Best,

 

Paul

[mourip]

2 hours ago, m5sime said:

It should just mean the master references are identical for both re clock processes. I use the clock out of my Mutec into my Brooklyn DAC so I can have both devices synchronised and the audio connects via AES balanced.

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

I do get the master reference idea. I was told by someone that it was only an option when a 10M reference was available. Clearly that is not true.

 

I would have tried it earlier but now I have the REF10 which can time all my devices. In the REF10 thread I list all of my testing combinations.

 

In the end I preferred using just one M3USB and to send wclk clock back to my RedNet D16 and also to re-clock to my DAC. The REF10 is master to the M3USB.

[Charente]

Interesting thread. Could anyone suggest whether the Mutec M3USB could be a valid (significant ?) replacement for a Schiit EITR ? This unit does produce some very good results on my setup (see my profile) with a Balanced Power Supply ... but if there are any further worthwhile benefits that one could achieve with the Mutec, I would be interested .. as ever ! Any thoughts appreciated.

[Confused]

A MC3+ review published today, quite a good read:

 

http://hifipig.com/mutec-mc-3-smart-clock-usb-master-clockreclockerspdif-converter/#more-34993

[mourip]

On 10/15/2017 at 4:02 PM, Charente said:

Interesting thread. Could anyone suggest whether the Mutec M3USB could be a valid (significant ?) replacement for a Schiit EITR ? This unit does produce some very good results on my setup (see my profile) with a Balanced Power Supply ... but if there are any further worthwhile benefits that one could achieve with the Mutec, I would be interested .. as ever ! Any thoughts appreciated.

 

Now that I have freed up one of my M3USBs from my speaker rig I decided to do a comparison between the GEN5 USB input of my Yggy and the USB to AES out re-sampling function of my M3USB.

 

It is not really Apples to Apples since I am using the Yggy's AES input when playing through the M3USB but it is a few data points.

 

I found them to be very close but I would give the Mutec the nod for a slightly more detailed and analog sound. I need to do a bit more listening but thist was after switching back and forth using several tracks. This M3USB is stock using it's SMPS supply.

[nbpf]

24 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

Now that I have freed up one of my M3USBs from my speaker rig I decided to do a comparison between the GEN5 USB input of my Yggy and the USB to AES out re-sampling function of my M3USB.

 

It is not really Apples to Apples since I am using the Yggy's AES input when playing through the M3USB but it is a few data points.

 

I found them to be very close but I would give the Mutec the nod for a slightly more detailed and analog sound. I need to do a bit more listening but thist was after switching back and forth using several tracks. This M3USB is stock using it's SMPS supply.

 

Very interesting, thanks for reporting! What is acting as a USB source for the Yggy and for the Mutec? Thanks, nbpf 

[Charente]

41 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

Now that I have freed up one of my M3USBs from my speaker rig I decided to do a comparison between the GEN5 USB input of my Yggy and the USB to AES out re-sampling function of my M3USB.

 

It is not really Apples to Apples since I am using the Yggy's AES input when playing through the M3USB but it is a few data points.

 

I found them to be very close but I would give the Mutec the nod for a slightly more detailed and analog sound. I need to do a bit more listening but thist was after switching back and forth using several tracks. This M3USB is stock using it's SMPS supply.

 

Thank-you @mourip ... I guess the AES/Yggy will provide some beneficial extra delta. Best I can get is BNC on the GMB. I wonder how much a difference a non SMPS supply would make to the M3USB... so many questions  !

[nbpf]

14 minutes ago, Charente said:

 

Thank-you @mourip ... I guess the AES/Yggy will provide some beneficial extra delta. Best I can get is BNC on the GMB. I wonder how much a difference a non SMPS supply would make to the M3USB... so many questions  !

 

I am in a similar situation, my Naim DAC only takes SPDIF inputs. The interesting thing about the Mutec is that it can be fed both via USB and via SPDIF. Thus, it could potentially improve low cost interfaces like the HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro or the Allo DigiOne. I have compared the DigiOne against my current source (fitPC3 + M2Tech HiFace Evo, both powered by Teddy Pardo PSUs) and while I found the DigiOne to be good, it was not as good as the old M2Tech.    

[Charente]

The multiple in/out puts is a big plus of the Mutec ... good flexibility if one needs it. The EITR (at the moment) is limited to one type each end.

[mourip]

1 hour ago, Charente said:

 

Thank-you @mourip ... I guess the AES/Yggy will provide some beneficial extra delta. Best I can get is BNC on the GMB. I wonder how much a difference a non SMPS supply would make to the M3USB... so many questions  !

 

On the M3USB that is in my speaker system I replaced the SMPS with 6.3v from my HDPlex LPS for a very nice improvement. If you are not using the USB input you can also remove that board. Probably saves some power and noise.

[nbpf]

8 minutes ago, Charente said:

The multiple in/out puts is a big plus of the Mutec ... good flexibility if one needs it. The EITR (at the moment) is limited to one type each end.

 

Beside which it is out of stock since weeks ...