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RE:  Mutec MC-1.2 or MC-3+ Smart Clock USB

I recently acquired an Acoustic Plan Digimaster DAC which has one USB input and one BNC(SPDIF) input - both are 192/24.

I play ~90% of my music from a Bryston BDP-1 digital player. I use the BNC out from the Bryston to the BNC in on the Digimaster.

I have an Ayon CD-07s CD player which has only one digital out for use with an external DAC. This digital out is an RCA SPDIF. Would the Mutec MC-1.2 or MC-3+ Smart Clock USB be able to accept the Ayon RCA digital out and convert it to a USB digital out so I can use the USB in on the Digimaster?

Thanks

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5 minutes ago, nbpf said:

Correct. There is only one USB port in the rear of the Mutec and it is an input port. Check https://www.mutec-net.com/downloads/manuals/MUTEC_MC-3plusUSB_Manual_E_screen.pdf page 13.

I don"t think so.

From the manual: "»USB I/O« This USB (Universal Serial Bus) interface receives or sends data streams in compliance with USB2.0."

HQplayer - NAA - Devialet D-800 - YG Acoustics Carmel + dual ELAC sub-2090

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14 minutes ago, zoltan said:

I don"t think so.

From the manual: "»USB I/O« This USB (Universal Serial Bus) interface receives or sends data streams in compliance with USB2.0."

 

It is bidirectional, to enable remote firmware updates I believe... from a reclocking perpective, it is purely data in

2015 MacBook Pro > SOtM tX-USBultra > Mutec MC3+USB > Chord Blu Mk2 > Chord Dave > ATC SIA2-150/P1/P2 > ATC SCM50 PSLT

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16 minutes ago, zoltan said:

I don"t think so.

From the manual: "»USB I/O« This USB (Universal Serial Bus) interface receives or sends data streams in compliance with USB2.0."

You are right but the manual does not describe any mode of operation in which the device converts SPDIF (or AES/EBU) audio streams to USB audio streams. Of course data have to be sent through the USB port to comply with audio class 2.0 and for firmware upgrades, driver installation, etc. 

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1 hour ago, nbpf said:

You are right but the manual does not describe any mode of operation in which the device converts SPDIF (or AES/EBU) audio streams to USB audio streams. Of course data have to be sent through the USB port to comply with audio class 2.0 and for firmware upgrades, driver installation, etc. 

 

Indeed, the manual does not describe it because it is not possible, conversion via the USB port is one way only (USB > SPDIF)

2015 MacBook Pro > SOtM tX-USBultra > Mutec MC3+USB > Chord Blu Mk2 > Chord Dave > ATC SIA2-150/P1/P2 > ATC SCM50 PSLT

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3 hours ago, 6aardvark9 said:

 

Indeed, the manual does not describe it because it is not possible, conversion via the USB port is one way only (USB > SPDIF)

I still disagree. They would not indicate I/O USB if it wasn't. Look at this article (from Mutec's homepage BTW) and see how the USB output function is used.  

https://www.mutec-net.com/artikel.php?id=1461772015

HQplayer - NAA - Devialet D-800 - YG Acoustics Carmel + dual ELAC sub-2090

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12 minutes ago, beessy said:

For now, usb (O)utput is only for firmware update

Seriously guys/girls, please read the article that I linked a few minutes ago. It clearly states "Analog source simultaneously recorded as a Wave file with Sony Soundforge DAW application" but enough if you look at the photo

news_2016.04_3_c.jpg

HQplayer - NAA - Devialet D-800 - YG Acoustics Carmel + dual ELAC sub-2090

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At this point it would be nice if someone from Mutec could chime in and explain. Mutec needs anyway to make some efforts to describe the possible ways of using the MC-3+ USB more clearly. The manual that comes with the device (also downloadable from the Mutec site) is not bad but there is plenty of space for improvements and clarifications. The lights on the front panel are very bright and reading the tiny annotations between the lights nearly impossible, at least to my eyes.

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I do not easily understand much of the technical side of audio electronics. It is confusing because I did study the Mutec site and it said the USB was bi-directional. It looked like I could use one of the inputs (RCA or RCA with BNC adapter) for my CD player and the USB as an out to my DAC. From the Mutec site:

  • 1 x Cinch input (coaxial) for S/P-DIF, 75 ohms terminated, unbalanced (MC-1.3)
  • 1 x BNC input for S/P-DIF + AES3id, 75 ohms terminated, unbalanced (MC-3+ USB)
  • 1 x USB2.0 interface, bi-directional usable (both models)
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On 2017. 12. 21. at 6:44 PM, Miko said:

I asked Julien about that a few months or more ago in this thread. The USB is only signal in...that’s that...

 

On Mutec's homepage I've just discovered the following review: https://www.mutec-net.com/downloads/HIFISTATEMENT_MUTEC-mc-3_17-03-02_en.pdf

 

 On the 3rd page: "The USB interface works bi-directionally. Thereby, for example, the path from S/P-DIF back through USB into the PC is available - a convenient option when you digitize analogue recordings and store them on a PC’s hard disk."

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On 2017. 10. 14. at 10:30 AM, catcando said:

Just a quick update.

I am now using two Mutec MC3+USB. More of everything!

I emailed Chris at Mutec, and he said some customers, who are using two Mutec's, are connecting the clock output, from the first one, to the clock input, of the second one, and setting the second one to EXT/RLCK.

 

 

The only reason I haven't tried this configuration was the MC3+USB manual itself: "...In all cases, the converted digital audio and Word Clock signals will have the same sampling rate as the digital audio source. However, there is no phase lock between input and output signals in this mode!"

 

In my understanding it means that even if the above config works an external master clock gen. is still needed to synchronize between the components. WIthout it there's no benefit compared to the word clock delivered in the input audio signal. With other words REF10 still rulez :-))

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/21/2017 at 2:33 PM, nbpf said:

At this point it would be nice if someone from Mutec could chime in and explain. Mutec needs anyway to make some efforts to describe the possible ways of using the MC-3+ USB more clearly. The manual that comes with the device (also downloadable from the Mutec site) is not bad but there is plenty of space for improvements and clarifications. The lights on the front panel are very bright and reading the tiny annotations between the lights nearly impossible, at least to my eyes.

 

On 12/24/2017 at 12:52 AM, Balázs said:

 

On Mutec's homepage I've just discovered the following review: https://www.mutec-net.com/downloads/HIFISTATEMENT_MUTEC-mc-3_17-03-02_en.pdf

 

 On the 3rd page: "The USB interface works bi-directionally. Thereby, for example, the path from S/P-DIF back through USB into the PC is available - a convenient option when you digitize analogue recordings and store them on a PC’s hard disk."

 

Hi all,

Sorry for my absence during the holidays and a Happy New Year to you all! I agree that the manual leaves some room for clarifications. The MC-3+USB is a pretty powerful and extremely flexible device that can be used in both Hi-Fi and studio applications, so it's challenging to cover all possible scenarios without being super confusing. That's not meant as an excuse though.

 

Anyway, the MC-3+USB is indeed a bi-directional 2-in/2-out interface. So you can re-clock a digital source like a CD player or transport and record the re-clocked audio on a computer. The interface is not full duplex though, so you can't also monitor the return from the computer through the MC-3+USB at the same time.

 

Regarding @Isoform's earlier question: Both a USB DAC like the AcousticPlan DAC and the MC-3+USB are USB slave devices meaning that they expect a USB master (like a desktop computer or laptop) on the other. Therefor, it's unfortunately not possible to hook them up to each other via USB.

 

Hope this clarifies most of the questions. Let me know if I've missed anything!

 

Best regards,

Julian

MUTEC GmbH

Marketing Associate

Email [email protected]

Web www.mutec-net.com

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/2/2018 at 1:20 PM, julian.david said:

 

 

Hi all,

Sorry for my absence during the holidays and a Happy New Year to you all! I agree that the manual leaves some room for clarifications. The MC-3+USB is a pretty powerful and extremely flexible device that can be used in both Hi-Fi and studio applications, so it's challenging to cover all possible scenarios without being super confusing. That's not meant as an excuse though.

 

Anyway, the MC-3+USB is indeed a bi-directional 2-in/2-out interface. So you can re-clock a digital source like a CD player or transport and record the re-clocked audio on a computer. The interface is not full duplex though, so you can't also monitor the return from the computer through the MC-3+USB at the same time.

 

Regarding @Isoform's earlier question: Both a USB DAC like the AcousticPlan DAC and the MC-3+USB are USB slave devices meaning that they expect a USB master (like a desktop computer or laptop) on the other. Therefor, it's unfortunately not possible to hook them up to each other via USB.

 

Hope this clarifies most of the questions. Let me know if I've missed anything!

 

Best regards,

Julian

Thanks for the clarifications, I very much appreciated! Are there any plans for a MC-3+ USB version with external power supply? I have tested the MC-3+ USB for about one week and, while it worked perfectly and sounded fine, it did not sound better than my M2Tech hiFace Evo with Teddy Pardo 9V/2A LPSU. An MC-3+ USB with external PSU would be a natural complement to the standard version, I believe. Best, nbpf    

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here's an interesting perspective from Japan using an April and Mytek 192 DAC with the MC-3+USB. Compatible with the Melco (Dela) NAS designs.

The author prefers natural PCM files, over the DSD conversions. One way around this is to use HQPlayer or Roon to perform the software conversion.

 

Hey @julian.david, any chance to certify Mutec equipment as Roon Ready? 

 

Also check out the gear in the foreground & background of the photos. Right click (in Chrome) to translate to English.

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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4 hours ago, One and a half said:

Hey @julian.david, any chance to certify Mutec equipment as Roon Ready? 

 

Thanks for sharing! Funny you should ask about Roon: we're actually in the process of becoming a partner and getting our USB devices (MC-3+USB and MC-1.2) approved for the Roon Tested program. Roon Ready is a slightly different animal that is only available when a device can be a network audio device rather than a simple USB interface. So that doesn't apply for MUTECs products. Anyway though, I expect this process to be completed soon and I'm sure you'll hear about it.

 

Julian

MUTEC GmbH

Marketing Associate

Email [email protected]

Web www.mutec-net.com

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1 hour ago, julian.david said:

 

Thanks for sharing! Funny you should ask about Roon: we're actually in the process of becoming a partner and getting our USB devices (MC-3+USB and MC-1.2) approved for the Roon Tested program. Roon Ready is a slightly different animal that is only available when a device can be a network audio device rather than a simple USB interface. So that doesn't apply for MUTECs products. Anyway though, I expect this process to be completed soon and I'm sure you'll hear about it.

 

Julian

Thanks Julian for the news on Roon Ready!

 

I guess all the 'old' MC's can have their firmware changed to add Roon in, or does it need new hardware. 

 

A networking option is pretty cool with Roon, but such an interface is not a trivial matter. Since Mutec is the clocking experts, a network to AES3/id/S/PDIF with re-clocking in the box would be a great product to have, hint, hint!

 

Mutec hasn't ventured into AOIP and given the pitfalls,  justifiably can put that on ice, with Roon though, the process is pretty much seamless with great sound quality.

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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13 hours ago, julian.david said:

 

Thanks for sharing! Funny you should ask about Roon: we're actually in the process of becoming a partner and getting our USB devices (MC-3+USB and MC-1.2) approved for the Roon Tested program. Roon Ready is a slightly different animal that is only available when a device can be a network audio device rather than a simple USB interface. So that doesn't apply for MUTECs products. Anyway though, I expect this process to be completed soon and I'm sure you'll hear about it.

 

Julian

I am a little puzzled by this I have to say, why exactly does a USB to S/PDIF converter need to be 'Roon Tested'?  My MC3+USB is happily running Roon thanks to the micoRendu that is feeding via USB, a set up that works splendidly, but I struggle to understand why a MC3+USB needs to be 'Roon Tested' any more than the  amplifier and speakers that follow it.  Surely it makes no difference to the USB feed if the music player is Roon, JRiver, iTunes or anything else?  I have no problem with Mutec products being Roon tested, I am just genuinely curious as to what this means in practice.  Can the MC3+USB be optimised in any way to suit a USB feed that just happened to originate in Roon?

Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones.

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