The Computer Audiophile Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 You can view the page at http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content.php?r=515-Van-Halen-Studio-Albums-1978-1984-High-Resolution-24-Bit-192-kHz-Download Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Tournesol Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Great article. Thanks. I will wait for the single album releases though. My Equipment: Naim Nait XS, Rega Dac, Squeezebox Touch, Dynaudio Focus 110. Link to comment
Julf Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Great review - but one small detail - I think "Prof. Scott's 16 v. 24 bit checking tool" should really be credited to users "nu774" and "skamp" @ Hydrogen Audio. Passing that test is no guarantee that the material is genuinely 24 bits - it only detects crude zero-padding, and any filtering, rate conversion or dithering will hide the zero bits. Link to comment
boh Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Hi, thanks for the review! Just did a quick DR on my old CD:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Van Halen / 1984 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -4.92 dB -21.85 dB 1:09 01-1984 DR14 -2.35 dB -18.45 dB 4:03 02-Jump DR14 -2.36 dB -17.96 dB 3:33 03-Panama DR14 -0.91 dB -18.78 dB 3:02 04-Top Jimmy DR13 -1.72 dB -17.71 dB 4:14 05-Drop Dead Legs DR14 -1.88 dB -18.74 dB 4:45 06-Hot for Teacher DR14 -1.26 dB -18.86 dB 4:44 07-I'll Wait DR14 -0.78 dB -18.18 dB 4:35 08-Girl Gone Bad DR14 -0.32 dB -16.61 dB 3:18 09-House of Pain -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 9 Official DR value: DR14 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 958 kbps Codec: FLAC: It seems like we have lost DR even though we have 24 bits to play with instead of 16? Link to comment
wgscott Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Great review - but one small detail - I think "Prof. Scott's 16 v. 24 bit checking tool" should really be credited to users "nu774" and "skamp" @ Hydrogen Audio. Passing that test is no guarantee that the material is genuinely 24 bits - it only detects crude zero-padding, and any filtering, rate conversion or dithering will hide the zero bits. Yes, I am but a humble, naive user. That, and I always shell-script in zsh. Link to comment
firedog Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Not going to buy this, but good to know that more classic rock has been released in hi-res without being volume compressed to death. Anybody have Redbook of this to compare the DR figures. Be interesting to see if the mainstream release is the same. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
One and a half Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Not going to buy this, but good to know that more classic rock has been released in hi-res without being volume compressed to death. Anybody have Redbook of this to compare the DR figures. Be interesting to see if the mainstream release is the same. The DR database goes back to 1978 even vinyls. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
testikoff Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Anybody have Redbook of this to compare the DR figures. Be interesting to see if the mainstream release is the same. The original VH CD releases in DR ascending order: DR10: Van Halen / Fair Warning DR12: Van Halen / Diver Down DR12: Van Halen / Van Halen II DR13: Van Halen / Van Halen DR13: Van Halen / Women and Children First DR14: Van Halen / 1984 Link to comment
Dr Tone Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 The only other copies I have at my disposal are the HDCD reissues. Definitely a different master. I immediately go to Unchained and the intro guitar for unchained in the 24/192 version isn't as hard panned left and a little recessed, definite compression on the HDCD remaster. So if Fair Warning was up-sampled from something it wasn't the HDCD version. Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas Link to comment
jcpom Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 if tracks are upsampled from 44.1 kHz, why pay more for 192kHz vs 96kHz? MacMini (late 2010 w/ 4 gb @ 10.9.5) dedicated to digital music (hi-res @24/96 FLAC & lossless @16/44.1) via Audirvana+ 1.5.12 * thru AQ Carbon USB to MF V-Link 192 to MF M1 DAC via Mogami Gold AES (XLR) * out to Sennheiser HD800 driven by Burson Audio HA-160 OR (when wife not home!) out to Paradigm Studio 60s driven by Golden Tree Audio SE-40 tube stereo amp * MacBook (lossey @iPod/iPad/iPhone/AppleTV + general computing) * MacBook Pro (late 2011) @ripping/tagging DVD-Audio + Blu ray Audio & for travel via Fiio E-17 * iPhone5 64gb w/ FLAC player Link to comment
woodcans Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 There's a 10% off code good through 4/10 on HDTracks page for the set. MBP/Amarra/Wireworld USB/Empirical OR4/Black Cat Silverstar/NAD m51/Custom hand built cryo'd ALO Audio XLR/Luxman M-600A/Custom hand built cryo'd ALO Audio speaker cables/Usher 6311/JL Audio f112 Link to comment
Krutsch Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Wow... I saw VH in Madison, WI, when they toured for their initial album release. That was the concert they apologized to the Sheraton hotel for trashing the place after the show (it's mentioned in the liner notes for VH II). I still remember Eddie running across the stage and sliding onto his knees to kick off Eruption. I am downloading this tonight... One question: is there really any reason to purchase the 192kHz version? Do you think the digital copies are really transfers made at that sample rate or are these just upsampled from 96 or even 44.1? Just curious... "Play the volume as loud as you want - but don't touch my levels now. I got them set just the way I like 'em." Link to comment
agentalbert Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Hi, thanks for the review! Just did a quick DR on my old CD:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Analyzed: Van Halen / 1984 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -4.92 dB -21.85 dB 1:09 01-1984 DR14 -2.35 dB -18.45 dB 4:03 02-Jump DR14 -2.36 dB -17.96 dB 3:33 03-Panama DR14 -0.91 dB -18.78 dB 3:02 04-Top Jimmy DR13 -1.72 dB -17.71 dB 4:14 05-Drop Dead Legs DR14 -1.88 dB -18.74 dB 4:45 06-Hot for Teacher DR14 -1.26 dB -18.86 dB 4:44 07-I'll Wait DR14 -0.78 dB -18.18 dB 4:35 08-Girl Gone Bad DR14 -0.32 dB -16.61 dB 3:18 09-House of Pain -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 9 Official DR value: DR14 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 958 kbps Codec: FLAC: It seems like we have lost DR even though we have 24 bits to play with instead of 16? The old CD may have had a high end boost, which can artificially juice the dynamic range. That's speculation, of course. Link to comment
Tournesol Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 This is my original CD from around 1984, an already awesome sounding CD. Just listen to the drum intro on Hot for Teacher. Kicks butt! The DR is quite impressive. Better than 24bit version. ---- Analyzed folder: /Volumes/music/Van Halen/1984 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR14 -2.13 dB -18.85 dB 06 Van Halen - Hot For Teacher.m4a DR14 -2.65 dB -18.13 dB 03 Van Halen - Panama.m4a DR13 -1.90 dB -17.76 dB 05 Van Halen - Drop Dead Legs.m4a DR12 -6.27 dB -21.87 dB 01 Van Halen - 1984.m4a DR14 -1.38 dB -18.92 dB 07 Van Halen - I'll Wait.m4a DR14 -1.72 dB -18.38 dB 08 Van Halen - Girl Gone Bad.m4a DR14 -2.59 dB -18.52 dB 02 Van Halen - Jump.m4a DR14 -2.00 dB -18.81 dB 04 Van Halen - Top Jimmy.m4a DR14 -0.64 dB -16.71 dB 09 Van Halen - House Of Pain.m4a ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of files: 9 Official DR value: DR14 ============================================================================================== My Equipment: Naim Nait XS, Rega Dac, Squeezebox Touch, Dynaudio Focus 110. Link to comment
Audio_ELF Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 So... Are the 24/192 better than the 24/96? Are both better than a 16/44.1 CDRB copy? Or are we just being told to buy the highest bit rate just because they have bigger numbers in the adverts. Come on Chris... Try to get some of the lower bit rate versions an compare!! Subjective comparisons are fine. Eloise --- ...in my opinion / experience... While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing. And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism. keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out. Link to comment
BattleScarze Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Hi, Thanks for the review and letting us know about the releases...gotta love old Van Halen. I currently own the original red book CD's and the HDCD's...there is more "Air" in the HDCD's BUT there is slight sibilance which is non-existent on the CD's...has anyone noticed if there is any hint of sibilance on the hi-res downloads?? I will most likely download but would really appreciate some honesty on the sibilance...again its slight but noticeable. BattleScarze, More is only better when less is no good! Link to comment
RobbieC Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Great review - but one small detail - I think "Prof. Scott's 16 v. 24 bit checking tool" should really be credited to users "nu774" and "skamp" @ Hydrogen Audio. Passing that test is no guarantee that the material is genuinely 24 bits - it only detects crude zero-padding, and any filtering, rate conversion or dithering will hide the zero bits. Stigler's law of eponymy. Rob C Link to comment
Julf Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Stigler's law of eponymy. I prefer Whitehead's version - "Everything of importance has been said before by somebody who did not discover it" Link to comment
EuroChamp Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Hm, my CD shows a different DR range: foobar2000 1.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -0.10 dB -15.28 dB 1:09 01-1984 DR7 -0.08 dB -9.13 dB 4:04 02-Jump DR9 -0.09 dB -9.96 dB 3:33 03-Panama DR9 -0.09 dB -10.89 dB 3:02 04-Top Jimmy DR7 -0.09 dB -9.03 dB 4:16 05-Drop Dead Legs DR7 -0.09 dB -8.98 dB 4:45 06-Hot For Teacher DR9 -0.09 dB -11.16 dB 4:45 07-I'll Wait DR7 -0.09 dB -9.15 dB 4:36 08-Girl Gone Bad DR7 -0.09 dB -8.91 dB 3:20 09-House of Pain -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Official DR value: DR8 Link to comment
Tournesol Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Hm, my CD shows a different DR range: foobar2000 1.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -0.10 dB -15.28 dB 1:09 01-1984 DR7 -0.08 dB -9.13 dB 4:04 02-Jump DR9 -0.09 dB -9.96 dB 3:33 03-Panama DR9 -0.09 dB -10.89 dB 3:02 04-Top Jimmy DR7 -0.09 dB -9.03 dB 4:16 05-Drop Dead Legs DR7 -0.09 dB -8.98 dB 4:45 06-Hot For Teacher DR9 -0.09 dB -11.16 dB 4:45 07-I'll Wait DR7 -0.09 dB -9.15 dB 4:36 08-Girl Gone Bad DR7 -0.09 dB -8.91 dB 3:20 09-House of Pain -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Official DR value: DR8 That's because it's one ofe the remasters. My CD is from back in the eighties. My Equipment: Naim Nait XS, Rega Dac, Squeezebox Touch, Dynaudio Focus 110. Link to comment
Veovis Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I'm a bit sceptic towards HDtracks since they rarely (never?) tell the costumer anything about the process behind their releases. How can we know that what they sell are true 24/96 (or 24/192) transfers of the best master tapes available? I'd be especially surprised if a record company actually makes two new digital transfers, one in 24/96 and one in 24/192, of the analouge master tape to sell as downloads through HDtracks. Until they at least tell me otherwise I would assume that they make one digital transfer in either 24/96 or 24/192 and then up- or downsample the result in order to sell as a different version. Which means what you buy is either bogus 24/192 or inferior downsampled 24/96 files. I hope I'm wrong about this, but until they introduce some kind of declaration of the stuff they sell I'll only buy things I assume is genuin hirez stuff, such as David Bowies latest album (24/48 i think). Or the latest Rush album in 24/96. When it comes to the older stuff from the analougue era I'm, as I said, a bit sceptic. Buying the 24/96 version of an Alice Cooper album from the 70's didn't exactly make me change my mind... Link to comment
Somsak Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Interesting review but it seems a little light on direct comparisons to earlier releases of those albums. I have a 1990 CD of Van Halen’s first album. The DR results look so similar to those reported in the review for this HDTracks release that I wonder if it’s a coincidence. Does this new release from HDTracks sound better than the original CDs? Here are the DR results from that 1990 CD (which does sound good IMO): -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Van Halen / Van Halen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -0.98 dB -16.03 dB 3:37 01-Runnin' with the Devil DR12 -1.59 dB -16.43 dB 1:42 02-Eruption DR11 -2.28 dB -15.70 dB 2:39 03-You Really Got Me DR13 -1.95 dB -16.33 dB 3:50 04-Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love DR12 -1.85 dB -16.27 dB 3:46 05-I'm the One DR13 -1.78 dB -17.55 dB 3:30 06-Jamie's Cryin' DR12 -2.51 dB -16.73 dB 3:02 07-Atomic Punk DR12 -3.58 dB -17.58 dB 3:43 08-Feel Your Love Tonight DR13 -2.29 dB -17.72 dB 3:23 09-Little Dreamer DR13 -2.58 dB -18.70 dB 3:20 10-Ice Cream Man DR14 -1.18 dB -17.33 dB 3:01 11-On Fire -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 11 Official DR value: DR12 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 948 kbps Codec: FLAC ================================================================================ Link to comment
Julf Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I'm a bit sceptic towards HDtracks since they rarely (never?) tell the costumer anything about the process behind their releases. How can we know that what they sell are true 24/96 (or 24/192) transfers of the best master tapes available? I guess what we really need is an updated version of the old SPARS code system (remember the "AAA", "AAD", "ADD", "DAD" and "DDD" codes from the early days of the CD?). Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted April 4, 2013 Author Share Posted April 4, 2013 I guess what we really need is an updated version of the old SPARS code system (remember the "AAA", "AAD", "ADD", "DAD" and "DDD" codes from the early days of the CD?). Hi Julf - that has been discussed before and I'm not sure I agree with you. Here's a good post from Paul Stubblebine, Mastering Engineer for some great sounding recordings. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-audiophile-downloads/scandal-brewing-high-resolution-downloads-7735/index11.html#post94800 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Julf Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Hi Julf - that has been discussed before and I'm not sure I agree with you. Here's a good post from Paul Stubblebine, Mastering Engineer for some great sounding recordings. And I get his point. I still think there should be some sort of auditable "product tracking" system, just like in most other industries. BTW, that thread also provided a great explanation of the 38KHz tone we see on some spectrum plots - leak-through from the motor control signal of the ATR-100 tape machine. Link to comment
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