OPPO 103/105 Does Stereo/Multi-Channel DSD!

[valenroy]

Just thought that everyone should know about this when I was over at the stereophile website. Beta firmware is available to test stereo/multi-channel DSD natively via attached storage devices! Read more here:-

 

News Flash: Oppo now plays DSD files | Stereophile.com

[valenroy]

Just thought that everyone should know about this when I was over at the stereophile website. Beta firmware is available to test stereo/multi-channel DSD natively via attached storage devices! Read more here:-

 

News Flash: Oppo now plays DSD files | Stereophile.com

Dear OPPO users,

 

Do kindly post back your findings with this new firmware and the possibility of using the OPPO as a DSD DAC via the USB connection. It is mentioned that native DSD playback is enabled through external storage devices only. I think a lot of us will be interested to know! Thanks!

[sdolezalek]

Wow, three separate posts on this update in just two hours. You win for being the first! Now I can't wait to hear more reviews come in from CA members on this Oppo update.

[valenroy]

Wow, three separate posts on this update in just two hours. You win for being the first! Now I can't wait to hear more reviews come in from CA members on this Oppo update.

 

The OPPO actually provides for a Windows ASIO driver so I would think that it will simplify hardware interfacing issues and even if it doesn't, I wonder whether DoP is currently implemented in the new firmware as a walk-around. Many other questions abound such as the DSD data rate that it can support up to; the eventual ability to stream DSD off the network connection directly; whether DSD is converted to PCM before the analogue outputs; how multi-channel DSD is transmitted at the analogue/digital outputs, etc...

 

The most exciting aspect of this new feature is about bringing DSD to the masses, without specifically making them buy a DSD DAC separately to accomplish such native DSD conversions. I can foresee that this new development is going to bring DSD to a whole new commercial level altogether. Next, we would need to re-think how we as informed consumers can liberate the DSD medium from their SACD shackles. i.e. for discussion sake, should we condone peer sharing of our huge libraries of ripped SACD content to get the push and momentum the studios need to realise its commercial feasibility and viability? I am most certain that people who are interested in DSD are hesitant to hop onto the train because content is scarce but if we as savy end-consumers allow such material to be freely available (albeit unethically correct) to the mass in the initial stages, do you think consumers would then embrace DSD more readily?

[Kal Rubinson]

The OPPO actually provides for a Windows ASIO driver so I would think that it will simplify hardware interfacing issues and even if it doesn't, I wonder whether DoP is currently implemented in the new firmware as a walk-around.

Not yet.

 

Many other questions abound such as the DSD data rate that it can support up to;

64fs only now.

 

the eventual ability to stream DSD off the network connection directly; whether DSD is converted to PCM before the analogue outputs; how multi-channel DSD is transmitted at the analogue/digital outputs,

Not yet. Not unless you want to. Same options as with a disc.

[mayhem13]

The OPPO actually provides for a Windows ASIO driver so I would think that it will simplify hardware interfacing issues and even if it doesn't, I wonder whether DoP is currently implemented in the new firmware as a walk-around. Many other questions abound such as the DSD data rate that it can support up to; the eventual ability to stream DSD off the network connection directly; whether DSD is converted to PCM before the analogue outputs; how multi-channel DSD is transmitted at the analogue/digital outputs, etc...

 

The most exciting aspect of this new feature is about bringing DSD to the masses, without specifically making them buy a DSD DAC separately to accomplish such native DSD conversions. I can foresee that this new development is going to bring DSD to a whole new commercial level altogether. Next, we would need to re-think how we as informed consumers can liberate the DSD medium from their SACD shackles. i.e. for discussion sake, should we condone peer sharing of our huge libraries of ripped SACD content to get the push and momentum the studios need to realise its commercial feasibility and viability? I am most certain that people who are interested in DSD are hesitant to hop onto the train because content is scarce but if we as savy end-consumers allow such material to be freely available (albeit unethically correct) to the mass in the initial stages, do you think consumers would then embrace DSD more readily?

 

Terrible being a slave to the commercial music industry awaiting a usefull catalog of DSD format music......I don't have much faith that this will ever happen. Multichannel PCM via HDMI is embedded pretty deep...perhaps too deep to be uprooted.

[valenroy]

Terrible being a slave to the commercial music industry awaiting a usefull catalog of DSD format music......I don't have much faith that this will ever happen. Multichannel PCM via HDMI is embedded pretty deep...perhaps too deep to be uprooted.

 

But what if I can tell you that you can readily access thousands of ripped SACD content at the moment... would you think otherwise then?

 

My SACD collection started out at a measly 3 in Feb 2012 but has now expanded to over 300 titles within a span of a year ever since I discovered the possibility to access such ripped SACD content on-line. I actually wanted to own the SACD disc after I downloaded the peer-shared content, which in my case, actually contributed positively to the industry in a way.

[russtafarian]

I just posted this over at Audio Circle but will share it here as well. I updated the firmware on my BDP-103 and spent some time goofing around with DSD playback from USB storage. It works, but before I get into sound quality observations, there are a couple configuration/navigation issues to mention.

 

Updating to the new beta test firmware requires downloading the file from Oppo’s website to a USB drive and connecting the USB drive to the Oppo player. The network firmware update feature will not install the beta test firmware.

 

Unlike dropping a disc in the tray and hitting play, file playback from USB storage requires the remote and a monitor to navigate the menus. My 103 is in a music only system so I have no incentive to buy and connect an HDMI monitor/TV of any size. I use an old 8” TFT screen connected to the “diagnostic” composite video output. This output doesn’t show video but it allows me to navigate the menus.

 

When playing DSD files or SACD discs, the Oppo’s volume control DOES NOT work. It operates like a mute control; 0 is off and 1 through 100 is full level. The volume control does work if SACD/DSD output is changed to PCM. But if you are thinking of connecting the Oppo directly to an amp to play DSD, forget it. You have to use a preamp or some other volume control solution.

 

Metadata for DSD files is limited to folder and file names. The metadata embedded in my DSF files was not displayed by the Oppo’s playback menus. Metadata for SACD discs is more complete since the Oppo hits the Gracenotes metadatabase when a disc is inserted. No cover art is displayed for either files or discs. The HDMI video output might be a different story, but I have no way to check that.

 

To test out DSD file playback from USB storage I loaded stereo DSF files to a USB flash drive and plugged it into the front panel USB port. I chose two SACDs that have served as reference discs for many years: Forget About It by Alison Krauss and French Piano Trios by The Floristan Trio. I compared disc playback to file playback on the 103. I also compared Oppo DSD playback to Jriver/Benchmark DAC2 DSD playback.

 

Yes, DSD file playback does sound better than SACD disc playback on the Oppo, but both sound really good. The difference isn’t night and day huge, but it is significant. Compared to DSD file playback, the SACD sounds a bit truncated in terms of soundstage size and dimensionality. Highs are not as extended and airy and instrument/vocal textures aren’t as fleshed out.

 

The overall character of the 103 remained consistent between discs and files. The 103 (after some modest modifications) has a round, pleasant, presentation that gives up some resolution and transparency for organic flow. Bass is a bit light and loose, and the upper midrange/lower treble is slightly muted. But overall, it’s a fun, easy player to listen to. A few months ago when the Benchmark DAC2 was still breaking in, the Oppo was so much more enjoyable to listen to, that I was seriously second guessing my decision to buy the DAC2. Now that the DAC2 has settled in, it is clearly the superior digital source.

 

Playing back the same DSF files through Jriver and the DAC2 opens up the size and spatial dimensionality of the soundstage. Instrument and vocal character and textures are more finely delineated. The overall presentation does a better job of inviting me into the musical experience that the artist is creating. The Oppo is really good, but the DAC2 is much better.

 

So my initial conclusion is that DSD file playback on the Oppo BDP-103 does sound better than playback of the source SACD. The SACD still sounds great, but playing the DSD file provides a nice step forward in sound quality. If someone is willing to live with navigation and metadata limitations, this is a simpler, lower cost alternative to doing the whole computer audio/USB DAC thing. That said, my Jriver/Benchmark DAC2 setup with Jremote Ipod control is superior in every significant way: navigation ease, metadata access, and most importantly, sound quality.

 

I haven’t played with multi-channel yet; that will require a little more setup and configuration. I’ll compare DSF files to SACD discs as I did before. I’ll also compare DSD multi-channel file playback to my music server multi-channel setup: Foobar controlling and transcoding DSD to 24/88 PCM and sending it to the Oppo via HDMI. That should be interesting.

 

Russ

[TarnishedEars]

It is my understanding that while the Oppos can now play DSD files from a USB storage device, that they still cannot process DSD as ASIO via their USB ports in any form, including as DoP. The rumor is that this is a hardware limitation, so there probably aren't going to be further firmware upgrades which will support DSD over USB as ASIO. So playing DSD files though one of these from JRiver is probably not an option, except possibly if you route it through their HDMI inputs.

 

What is unclear to me though is whether they will only play DSD files from only a loal storage device, or of they now can also play DSD files from a network storage device. It seems like if they can recognize and play a local DSD file, that they should also be able to play DSD files from a network share as well. But so far I have only seen claims as to "local" storage support.

 

I'm assuming that the Oppos should now also be able to play DSD disks (computer format dvd disks containing DSF files), in addition to SACD-Rs, since this would also constitute a local storage device.

[mav52]

It is my understanding that while the Oppos can now play DSD files from a USB storage device, that they still cannot process DSD as ASIO via their USB ports in any form, including as DoP. The rumor is that this is a hardware limitation, so there probably aren't going to be further firmware upgrades which will support DSD over USB as ASIO. So playing DSD files though one of these from JRiver is probably not an option, except possibly if you route it through their HDMI inputs.

 

What is unclear to me though is whether they will only play DSD files from only a loal storage device, or of they now can also play DSD files from a network storage device. It seems like if they can recognize and play a local DSD file, that they should also be able to play DSD files from a network share as well. But so far I have only seen claims as to "local" storage support.

 

I'm assuming that the Oppos should now also be able to play DSD disks (computer format dvd disks containing DSF files), in addition to SACD-Rs, since this would also constitute a local storage device.

 

This firmware allows for DSD over direct USB storage. The Asynchronous DAC does not support DSD, but according to OPPO yesterday "we are still investigating this compatibility".

[Kal Rubinson]

What is unclear to me though is whether they will only play DSD files from only a loal storage device, or of they now can also play DSD files from a network storage device. It seems like if they can recognize and play a local DSD file, that they should also be able to play DSD files from a network share as well. But so far I have only seen claims as to "local" storage support.

While my Oppo does not seem to recognize DSD files via DLNA (oShare, jRiver, WMP), it does recognize and play them via SMB, as I discovered last night.

[edorr]

But what if I can tell you that you can readily access thousands of ripped SACD content at the moment... would you think otherwise then?

 

My SACD collection started out at a measly 3 in Feb 2012 but has now expanded to over 300 titles within a span of a year ever since I discovered the possibility to access such ripped SACD content on-line. I actually wanted to own the SACD disc after I downloaded the peer-shared content, which in my case, actually contributed positively to the industry in a way.

 

Peer shared content is a euphemism for stolen content. So distribution of pirated / stolen content "contributed positively to the industry"????? May be the hardware industry, but the content publishers probably see it differently.

 

I would personally question the viability of a technology if the only source of content is either pirated, or requires scoring and hacking an old PS3 on ebay, but that is just me. To my knowledge even the lone pioneers putting out 2 channel DSD (channel classic, 2L) have not ventured into MCH DSD downloads .....

[valenroy]

Peer shared content is a euphemism for stolen content. So distribution of pirated / stolen content "contributed positively to the industry"????? May be the hardware industry, but the content publishers probably see it differently.

 

I would personally question the viability of a technology if the only source of content is either pirated, or requires scoring and hacking an old PS3 on ebay, but that is just me. To my knowledge even the lone pioneers putting out 2 channel DSD (channel classic, 2L) have not ventured into MCH DSD downloads .....

 

I think you misunderstood what I actually meant... I was referring to the actual physical SACD discs that I have bought over the past year... from 3 to over 300 SACDs because of the availability of such peer-shared content. I was able to sample the quality of the albums first before I went all my way out to seek and own them physically... I don't even buy so many CDs previously in a year!

 

Speaking of which, I just bought the entire The Doors SACD boxset (6 albums altogether) and both of Audio Fidelity's Rush and YES releases in the past week!

[edorr]

I think you misunderstood what I actually meant... I was referring to the actual physical SACD discs that I have bought over the past year... from 3 to over 300 SACDs because of the availability of the such peer-shared content. I was able to sample the quality of the albums first before I went all my way out to seek and own them physically... I don't even buy so many CDs previously in a year!

 

Understood. I thought you were "peer sharing" the MCH DSD rips, which is plain theft. So are you ripping them yourself, or actually spinning discs? To me the Oppo announcement is a big "so what", because the Oppo already plays the actual SACD disc and play in native DSD if the player is set to "DSD direct". The vast majority of people will never go through the effort of ripping their SACDs with an old PS3 for the convenience of playing them from a PC, rather than spinning the disc. So without a substantial catalogue of downloadable MCH DSD content this is a non event.

[valenroy]

Understood. I thought you were "peer sharing" the MCH DSD rips, which is plain theft. So are you ripping them yourself, or actually spinning discs? To me the Oppo announcement is a big "so what", because the Oppo already plays the actual SACD disc and play in native DSD if the player is set to "DSD direct". The vast majority of people will never go through the effort of ripping their SACDs with an old PS3 for the convenience of playing them from a PC, rather than spinning the disc. So without a substantial catalogue of downloadable MCH DSD content this is a non event.

 

You sound too tense by the way. This was the discussion I was bringing to the table... if such peer-sharing is condoned and in doing so, it increases the acceptance and adoption of DSD by the mass consumers, wouldn't it inevitably propel the major labels to want to release their significant catalog of DSD material like what current hi-res PCM has evolved into? People were ripping their DVD-Audio discs because it was relatively easy to and look at what the major labels are offering to the public now? i.e HDtracks?

[edorr]

You sound too tense by the way. This was the discussion I was bringing to the table... if such peer-sharing is condoned and in doing so, it increases the acceptance and adoption of DSD by the mass consumers, wouldn't it inevitably propel the major labels to release their significant catalog of DSD material like what current hi-res PCM has evolved into? People are ripping their DVD-Audio discs because it was relatively easy to and look at what the major labels are offering to the public now? i.e HDtracks?

 

Its conceivable. Somewhat like pirating begot iTunes. I question HDtracks has anything to do with DVD audio pirating. The DVD-Audio catalogue is a much bigger joke than SACD. HD downloads is just a technology ready for primetime. Let the format war begin! If DSD pirating causes the industry to embrace the format, I'm all for it. I don't see it happening, but I hope I'm wrong.

[valenroy]

Its conceivable. Somewhat like pirating begot iTunes. I question HDtracks has anything to do with DVD audio pirating. The DVD-Audio catalogue is a much bigger joke than SACD. HD downloads is just a technology ready for primetime. Let the format war begin! If DSD pirating causes the industry to embrace the format, I'm all for it. I don't see it happening, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

It is never about format wars but rather consumer options. DSD plays a complimentary role to PCM and as it is now, it can never supplant PCM, ever. People here likes DSD for its intrinsic analogue sounding attributes and when there is an option between DSD and PCM of the same title, it is up to us consumers to cherry pick our preferences. Michael from Audiostream wrote an article which echoes my exact sentiments.

 

Ask AudioStream: DSD or PCM? | AudioStream

[edorr]

It is never about format wars but rather consumer options. DSD plays a complimentary role to PCM and as it is now, it can never supplant PCM, ever. People here likes DSD for its intrinsic analogue sounding attributes and when there is an option between DSD and PCM of the same title, it is up to us consumers to cherry pick our preferences. Michael from Audiostream wrote an article which echoes my exact sentiments.

 

Ask AudioStream: DSD or PCM? | AudioStream

 

Fair enough. Forget war. Let's hope a healthy audiophile DSD niche market develops that coexists with the PCM mass market. The hardware is already there. I'll be the first to spend my heard earned $$$ on the content (and like most everyone else hanging around here I am fully prepared hardware wise!).

[bleedink]

While my Oppo does not seem to recognize DSD files via DLNA (oShare, jRiver, WMP), it does recognize and play them via SMB, as I discovered last night.

 

How does one set up the Oppo for SMB shares? Is this just for 103/5 or for 93/5? My 93 doesn't seem to support SMB (Not sure though). I know that minimserver does dff, dsf over dlna if hardware supports. Anyway interested to hear how you set up SMB on the Oppo.

If I didn't adore ISO/AVCHD support I'd be very jealous! Sounds like for now the sq is very similar to SACD (per above). I guess I'm not missing much yet but not switching SACDs would be really awesome. I started out with one when I bought the Oppo--now approaching some 150. Can't beat that sound! If someone would buy my 93 for a really inflated price the 105 would be a beast!

[ted_b]

personally question the viability of a technology if the only source of content is either pirated, or requires scoring and hacking an old PS3 on ebay, but that is just me. To my knowledge even the lone pioneers putting out 2 channel DSD (channel classic, 2L) have not ventured into MCH DSD downloads .....

 

First off, Channel Classics is indeed starting to offer multichannel DSD downloads. Second, 2L is not DSD, it's DXD (24/352.8k) although they have DSD files offered, that have been converted (argh). Third, other boutique labels like BlueCoast and Opus3 will soon offer multichannel DSD content.

 

This is all good. I am not that excited about the Oppo announcement for another totally different reason; the Oppo has always been able to play this stuff...just via disc. My three tenants of computer audio are this:

1. all sample rate file access to a much higher quality (as much as you can afford) upgradeable standalone dedicated DAC than the generic types found in players and receivers (i.e sound quality);

2. chair-based convenience of browsing ones library via text and images, creating virtual playlists and overall track-based unlimited selection (i.e convenience and access)

3. get rid of spinning discs, the price of spinning discs, the noise of spinning discs.

To me this Oppo announcement only deals with tenant number 3, while tenant number 2 is poorly addressed via a poor non-portable GUI and limited or unavailable metadata and cover art. The biggest aspect of this announcement is the acknowledgement by a major player that multichannel DSD file playback is doable (my Mytek stack is wonderful but not exactly mainstream). For that I drink to them!

[ted_b]

BTW, 2L now has free multichannel DSD (10 files, converted from DXD but nice quality regardless) on its test bench.

High Resolution Music DOWNLOAD services .:. FLAC in free TEST BENCH

[russtafarian]

So playing DSD files though one of these from JRiver is probably not an option, except possibly if you route it through their HDMI inputs.

 

I tried this last night. I wanted to see if the Oppo 103's DSD file playback capability extended its HDMI input. It doesn't. I still have to set the Foobar SACD plug-in to convert multi-channel DSF to 24/88 PCM in order for the Oppo to play the files via HDMI.

 

Russ

[russtafarian]

While my Oppo does not seem to recognize DSD files via DLNA (oShare, jRiver, WMP), it does recognize and play them via SMB, as I discovered last night.

 

SMB is new to me. Can someone point me to a resource that explains how this works so I can set it up on my 103?

 

Russ

[edorr]

The biggest aspect of this announcement is the acknowledgement by a major player that multichannel DSD file playback is doable (my Mytek stack is wonderful but not exactly mainstream). For that I drink to them!

 

Clearly, more confirmation the hardware boys are on board, (although the practical value of the Oppo announcement is near zero for the reasons you mentioned).

 

May be the high end SSP manufacturers will finally join the fray and support native DSD over HDMI in their processors. This strikes me as an infitely more practical implementation than fiddling with USB, HTPC servers, ASIO drivers and stacking multiple DACs. Always wondered why this never happened....

[mav52]

SMB is new to me. Can someone point me to a resource that explains how this works so I can set it up on my 103?

 

Russ

 

have you tried a quick google like

 

how to setup smb on windows 7

 

or mac

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1549

Mac OS X: How to connect to Windows File Sharing (SMB)

 

http://www.avforums.com/forums/streamers-network-media-players/1718720-oppo-103-105-streaming-player.html this site is visited by OPPO not to mention there are two member that beta test for OPPO.