OPPO 103/105 Does Stereo/Multi-Channel DSD!

[wappinghigh]

^Great Kal. Thanks for taking a look. I use MinimServer to "serve" up my library to my Linn DS. Of course Linn refuses to develop support for DSD streaming (even though their high end streamers have a DSD capable chip.) In any case, They don't support multichannel PCM streaming either. Even though they used to produce one of the very best "Universal" Disc players out there a few years back. Anyway the point is Minimserver effectively acts like one of those old Universal Dic players. Potentially serving up every type of format. The only difference is you can serve up the library wherever you want. If Linn won't release a Mutlichannel streamer or a DSD capable streamer? No problem. Just get an additional player like the Oppo for that specific purpose. ie no need to swap out expensive gear.

 

As for all those who recommend JRiver. Yes JRiver is probably further developed on all this right now..but can JRiver run on a NAS drive? On a cubox or Rasberry pi consuming a couple of Watts?... Can it run without a computer? That's the exciting thing about MinimServer. It's such a code and power recourse friendly option. Dedicated solely for music.

[wappinghigh]

OMG. We are soooooo close in getting the ideal "all in one" truly "universal" streaming (and reasonably priced) piece of audiophile kit folks. So CLOSE>!

 

With the 105.

 

Can someone who has this specific model please test it with the new beta firmware (remember to first read what bleedink says about how this will take away some other playback features) Anyway, if you are OK with that, get a couple of stereo and multichannel DSD files and see if they will play via Minimserver! I'd do it myself. But my dealer won't lend me a 105 and let me put on the new beta firmware.... Go figure!

[Holzohr]

OMG. We are soooooo close in getting the ideal "all in one" truly "universal" streaming (and reasonably priced) piece of audiophile kit folks. So CLOSE>!

I wonder. What exactly does make you that euphoric? You have read the comments of two Oppo owners (using the beta firmware) here and you have read what Simon has written in his forum. Masayk and also I wrote that the Oppo sees DSD-files as APE and rejects to play them via MinimServer. The 105 acts the same way as the 103. It is up to the Oppo engineers to fix this. Also to make the Oppos ready for gapless playback.

[wappinghigh]

The 105 acts the same way as the 103.

 

Thanks. That's all I wanted to know. I'm no real boffin on this. Just wanted to know if it was something that DOP (available only in the 105) which could sort this MIME issue.. that's all.

[Holzohr]

Wap, I just read your last comment and Simon`s reply in the MinimServer forum. DOP is not implemented yet in the beta-firmware, only DSD-streaming via SMB. Afaik the Oppo engineers are thinking about making the USB-DAC of the 105 capable for DOP. Or DOP-Ethernet in general. I am thinking about buying the 105 again (I already owned one before I downsized to the 103) with the last stable firmware. I miss the ability to playback SACD-Rs and also the sound I had with the 105`s USB-DAC and my Squeezebox Touch (with EDO-app). It means I will NOT install the beta firmware on the 105 then. It`s up to you to buy the 105. Install the beta and find answers on your questions

[wappinghigh]

I wonder. What exactly does make you that euphoric?

 

The reason is if Oppo sorts this out, we have a way of collecting *ALL* files. Be they MP3, AIFF,FLAC, 16 bit 24Bit, 44.1>192, PCM, DSD, stereo DSD, mulitchannel DSD. Whatever. ALL files stored within the *one* library on a NAS drive. We can then tag all these files approriately (as you know) even the DSF ones. Now as you also know Minimserve could be configured to see all these tags. So theoretically on the Oppo (if it could just play these DSD file appropriately) we could browse to the minimserver share, find the appropriate file type (say find all my multichannel DSD files)...then bingo. Play them out via the Oppo pure DSD analog out. Say into a quality receiver like the ARCAM. Or we could then stop that and find say 24/192 stereo files and play those out via an attached XLR power amp or some other better audiophile stereo gear.

 

The point is, if this would work we would have a solution that allows playback off a NAS to the ONE "player" (the Oppo) then out to whatever other audiophile gear we had. All for less than 1.5K add on spend. And we wouldn't have to chuck out the other perfectly good 24bit stereo PCM player/streamer we may already own.

 

That is why I'm Euphoric

 

Not to mention we would be getting a great bluray/disc player (thrown in for free)..to boot.

 

Cheers

[wappinghigh]

Wap, I just read your last comment and Simon`s reply in the MinimServer forum. DOP is not implemented yet in the beta-firmware, only DSD-streaming via SMB. Afaik the Oppo engineers are thinking about making the USB-DAC of the 105 capable for DOP. Or DOP-Ethernet in general. I am thinking about buying the 105 again (I already owned one before I downsized to the 103) with the last stable firmware. I miss the ability to playback SACD-Rs and also the sound I had with the 105`s USB-DAC and my Squeezebox Touch (with EDO-app). It means I will NOT install the beta firmware on the 105 then. It`s up to you to buy the 105. Install the beta and find answers on your questions

 

^Exactly. You have summed up the issues right there. Beautifully. Oppo has never been the perfect "streamer". It always seems an afterthought. Oppo has been up to this sort of mucking around it's customers before with firmware "rollback" as I call it.. (remember the pulling of .iso playback?) Now is it a pure co-incidence that they now have some weird way of DSD file playback..? I wonder. I'm suspicious. Why would they do this, when there are perfectly straight forward way's that they know would have worked - with solutions that have been used by the likes of foobar and JRiver? etc. As I said, they have done this before with blu RAY streaming. Could this be the same with SACD?... I'm not saying it would be their "fault"...or accusing them of anything. It maybe more likely pressure from "third parties". Now I wonder who they might be again this time?.. It just seems weird: that they wouldn't have thought out this issue already, prior to the recent DSD firmware capable release. Co-incidence? Time will tell.

[Holzohr]

Ok, I understand I fear it is still a far way to make the Oppo to that ideal all-in-one player/streamer. Depends on the Oppo engineers, too. Please write a mail to their support about that topic! The more of us do the better. Since I went back from surround to stereo, such a 2ch DSD-streamer would be fine to me. Still thinking hard about the 105, the LUMIN and all... *scratching my head* I need some sleep. Good night!

[wappinghigh]

What I'm saying is I'll wait for some more water under the bridge before i take the "leap" and use the Oppo for DSD streaming. I've seen Oppo water before (deep bluray water)..only to see the river flow turned off.. Get my drift>?

[mav52]

^Exactly. You have summed up the issues right there. Beautifully. Oppo has never been the perfect "streamer". It always seems an afterthought. Oppo has been up to this sort of mucking around it's customers before with firmware "rollback" as I call it.. (remember the pulling of .iso playback?) Now is it a pure co-incidence that they now have some weird way of DSD file playback..? I wonder. I'm suspicious. Why would they do this, when there are perfectly straight forward way's that they know would have worked - with solutions that have been used by the likes of foobar and JRiver? etc. As I said, they have done this before with blu RAY streaming. Could this be the same with SACD?... I'm not saying it would be their "fault"...or accusing them of anything. It maybe more likely pressure from "third parties". Now I wonder who they might be again this time?.. It just seems weird: that they wouldn't have thought out this issue already, prior to the recent DSD firmware capable release. Co-incidence? Time will tell.

 

One question do you own a OPPO ?

[TarnishedEars]

I am thinking about buying the 105 again (I already owned one before I downsized to the 103) with the last stable firmware. I miss the ability to playback SACD-Rs and also the sound I had with the 105`s USB-DAC and my Squeezebox Touch (with EDO-app). It means I will NOT install the beta firmware on the 105 then. It`s up to you to buy the 105. Install the beta and find answers on your questions

As I understand it, SACD-R playback permanently goes away if you install the latest firmware. I'm not certain if this is starting with the Beta firmware, or if this has already been stripped from the most recent updates. But I believe that this feature is going away with your next update, whether this update supports DSD or not. This is true of both the 103 and 105. This might even be true of the 93 and 95s (even though you almost certainly won't gain DSD playback as a trade-off on the older machines).

[bleedink]

One question do you own a OPPO ?

 

Irrelevant. You see the folks on here talking about the firmwares that have taken fully functioning features away from users in the past. He is looking for an all in one multichannel streaming box. And Oppo caving in with every model isn't really helping anyone who has a huge collection of stuff and has spent considerable time archiving it only to not be able to play it if one is unfortunate enough to fall for a downgrade every time a firmware is released. I wouldn't buy a newer unit until I know exactly what they plan on chopping down the road. Who knows if the SMB thing is an oversight on their part and goes bye bye the next time you're 'up'grading. I think it will be interesting to see how this all plays out. For near perfect machines last generation except for a few minor details that could have been worked out these strike me as distinctly neutered units in many respects. I guess time will tell. You can hardly blame people for not rushing out and buying one after the last debacle. Can't upgrade your firmware to avoid some onerous feature removal--one that was a compelling reason for buying the machine in the first place--that left a bad taste in my mouth no matter how cool the new ones might be.

[Holzohr]

As I understand it, SACD-R playback permanently goes away if you install the latest firmware. I'm not certain if this is starting with the Beta firmware, or if this has already been stripped from the most recent updates. But I believe that this feature is going away with your next update, whether this update supports DSD or not. This is true of both the 103 and 105. This might even be true of the 93 and 95s (even though you almost certainly won't gain DSD playback as a trade-off on the older machines).

 

Yes, the Beta firmware from March removes the SACD-R playback and also the Oppo rejects to play AVCHD with 1:1 BD content now. A simple AVCHD created by tsMuxeR does still work. The question is if this feature also will be removed in the future.

 

Yesterday I was listening to DSD-albums via SMB. With help of a CUE-sheet the songs are in the right order and you have gapless playback. The downside is, you have to turn on the tv to navigate. So, now I am thinking hard either to buy the 105 with the last stable from January before they release a new stable or better save for the LUMIN. I guess/hope there will be appear some more DSD-streamers on the market soon.

[TarnishedEars]

Yes, the Beta firmware from March removes the SACD-R playback and also the Oppo rejects to play AVCHD with 1:1 BD content now. A simple AVCHD created by tsMuxeR does still work. The question is if this feature also will be removed in the future.

 

Yesterday I was listening to DSD-albums via SMB. With help of a CUE-sheet the songs are in the right order and you have gapless playback. The downside is, you have to turn on the tv to navigate. So, now I am thinking hard either to buy the 105 with the last stable from January before they release a new stable or better save for the LUMIN. I guess/hope there will be appear some more DSD-streamers on the market soon.

In some private discussions which I have had with an Oppo beta tester, he has told me that he believes that SACD-R support will going away for good. Oppo supposedly has been under quite a bit of pressure to remove all support for ISO-based formats of any kind.

[Holzohr]

...that he believes that SACD-R support will going away for good. Oppo supposedly has been under quite a bit of pressure to remove all support for ISO-based formats of any kind.

 

It seems, they got a(nother) call from Sony. I think I will not invest in another Oppo anymore. DSD via SMB is ok to me for the moment. It is a plus that I can sit on the sofa and select albums for listening by remote control. Of course, I won`t install the next firmware(s) that quick anymore. Even when you study the changelog before, you can not be sure about any other features they removed. That`s what I have learnt. Also removing the ISO-support was a "gift" that was not announced before (after what I have read).

 

I have all my SACDs on hard disk. It means that a DSD-streamer is the better option to me.

[mav52]

Irrelevant. You see the folks on here talking about the firmwares that have taken fully functioning features away from users in the past. He is looking for an all in one multichannel streaming box. And Oppo caving in with every model isn't really helping anyone who has a huge collection of stuff and has spent considerable time archiving it only to not be able to play it if one is unfortunate enough to fall for a downgrade every time a firmware is released. I wouldn't buy a newer unit until I know exactly what they plan on chopping down the road. Who knows if the SMB thing is an oversight on their part and goes bye bye the next time you're 'up'grading. I think it will be interesting to see how this all plays out. For near perfect machines last generation except for a few minor details that could have been worked out these strike me as distinctly neutered units in many respects. I guess time will tell. You can hardly blame people for not rushing out and buying one after the last debacle. Can't upgrade your firmware to avoid some onerous feature removal--one that was a compelling reason for buying the machine in the first place--that left a bad taste in my mouth no matter how cool the new ones might be.

 

Sorry but it is relevant. If he has one, then others might ask him to verify something on his OPPO. Sure OPPO has had history of fixing something and removing a feature that users happen to use, which I feel has is a pretty discouraging method towards implementing another feature...

[TarnishedEars]

It seems, they got a(nother) call from Sony. I think I will not invest in another Oppo anymore. DSD via SMB is ok to me for the moment. It is a plus that I can sit on the sofa and select albums for listening by remote control. Of course, I won`t install the next firmware(s) that quick anymore. Even when you study the changelog before, you can not be sure about any other features they removed. That`s what I have learnt. Also removing the ISO-support was a "gift" that was not announced before (after what I have read).

 

I have all my SACDs on hard disk. It means that a DSD-streamer is the better option to me.

One other thing that I have read is that apparently Oppo's firmware is directly based-upon some firmware package that most of the best BR players in the industry are using. So apparently many of the features that they receive inside of this package, they are not actually responsible for implementing. This may or may not include the ISO support which they are loosing. But apparently this does include the dsd file support that they are gaining.

 

So, if I'm reading the tea-leaves correctly, then the so-called SACD-R is a format which seems likely to loose all support from many, if not all, other manufacturers in the near future as well. If my understanding is correct, then this is looking like a deprecated format which is soon to be going the way of the do-do so far as I can tell, and Oppo might not even have any say in this matter.

 

Whatever the case, despite the fact that many Oppo players have played this particular format, it was never a format which Oppo officially supported, nor that Oppo advertised as supporting (despite the fact that there are websites which list this support). DSD file support on the other hand is officially being supported by Oppo, and this is not likely to go away.

 

But I agree with you that taking features away like this is likely to upset quite a few loyal Oppo enthusiasts.

 

It would be interesting if somebody with the Beta firmware loaded could perform an experiment as to whether the Beta firmware will play a computer file-format DVD-R containing dsd files gaplessly, when this disk also contains a cue-sheet. I'm not clear on exactly what kinds of data these cue-sheets contain. But it occurs to me that if the format of these cue sheets is the same as the text-files which lists the contents of a "DSD-disk" (to those super-rare players which support them), that such a disk might then in fact be a "DSD disk"?

[Paul R]

(Slight hijack in progress...)

 

Quick questions gang:

 

A friend is about to pull the plug on a new 105, and just asked me these questions:

 

(1) Will it play Blu-ray, DVD, CD, CD-ROM, and SACD disks. (I answered yes.)

 

(2) Will it stream all my music, including DSD from JRMC 18, including gapless playback in PCM and DSD formats? (All his PCM files are ALAC, I answered "yes, I think so." )

 

(3)Can you hook an ATV to it with HDMI and playback iTunes and Netflix content? (I answered yes)

 

(4) Can you completely control the thing with the iPhone/iPad app? (I answered yes, I think so.)

 

Did I steer him wrong in any particular?

 

-Paul

[mav52]

 

So, if I'm reading the tea-leaves correctly, then the so-called SACD-R is a format which seems likely to loose all support from many, if not all, other manufacturers in the near future as well. If my understanding is correct, then this is looking like a deprecated format which is soon to be going the way of the do-do so far as I can tell, and Oppo might not even have any say in this matter.

 

?

 

I like to go to the source for answers, so I asked OPPO , will SACD-R go away. It appears, since OPPO uses a few MediaTek chips in it's players, OPPO's source MediaTek is responsible for features being omitted.

 

Their answer:

SACD-R was never an officially supported format and MediaTek had only enabled it

because they had no means of playing back self-authored DSD media in the past.

Now that the player can do this on attached storage, MediaTek has removed SACD-R

support in the SDK used for our current line of players.

 

Best Regards,

 

Customer Service

OPPO Digital, Inc.

2629B Terminal Blvd.

Mountain View, CA 94043

[email protected]

Tel: 650-961-1118

[Holzohr]

Whatever the case, despite the fact that many Oppo players have played this particular format, it was never a format which Oppo officially supported, nor that Oppo advertised as supporting (despite the fact that there are websites which list this support).

 

That`s true. Happy are those ones among us who are ignoring all the firmware updates

 

It would be interesting if somebody with the Beta firmware loaded could perform an experiment as to whether the Beta firmware will play a computer file-format DVD-R containing dsd files gaplessly, when this disk also contains a cue-sheet. I'm not clear on exactly what kinds of data these cue-sheets contain. But it occurs to me that if the format of these cue sheets is the same as the text-files which lists the contents of a "DSD-disk" (to those super-rare players which support them), that such a disk might then in fact be a "DSD disk"?

 

Hmmm... honestly, I can not imagine that the Oppo will accept such a disc. I have created a DSD-disc with help of Korg AudioGate, the Oppo didn`t play it. There was even no info at the display. When you want to play a SACD-R now with Beta-firmware installed, the display shows "unknown disc".

[bleedink]

Interesting as I thought it was the Sabre chip playing DSD. Is MediaTek the owners of the Sabre or the Qdeo chips? Wow that's a company who apparently has some weight to throw around. Peculiar for a chip maker...

 

 

I like to go to the source for answers, so I asked OPPO , will SACD-R go away. It appears, since OPPO uses a few MediaTek chips in it's players, OPPO's source MediaTek is responsible for features being omitted.

 

Their answer:

[Holzohr]

(1) Will it play Blu-ray, DVD, CD, CD-ROM, and SACD disks. (I answered yes.)

 

(2) Will it stream all my music, including DSD from JRMC 18, including gapless playback in PCM and DSD formats? (All his PCM files are ALAC, I answered "yes, I think so." )

 

(3)Can you hook an ATV to it with HDMI and playback iTunes and Netflix content? (I answered yes)

 

(4) Can you completely control the thing with the iPhone/iPad app? (I answered yes, I think so.)

 

 

Hi Paul, I am not at home in the world of Apple but maybe I can help in spite of this.

 

(1) yes

 

(2) Hmmm... playing of DSD-files ist possible with the Beta-firmware from March. That and gapless playback only works with help of CUE-sheets and via SMB. The Beta-firmware added support for the AIFF format. Not sure about ALAC.

 

(3) I guess yes.

 

(4) There is an Oppo app that acts like the remote control and there are rumours that Oppo will release a media app in May. This app will be available for iPhone/iPads first.

 

 

Do you know this thread? Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread

Another interesting site Unofficial OPPO BDP-103 Frequently Asked Questions

[mav52]

Interesting as I thought it was the Sabre chip playing DSD. Is MediaTek the owners of the Sabre or the Qdeo chips? Wow that's a company who apparently has some weight to throw around. Peculiar for a chip maker...

 

Also from OPPO:

In cases where technology has been removed, they have been removed by MediaTek so we OPPO, have no recourse to also remove the feature as their SDK won't allow for the feature to continue to work. This is why SACD-R and BDMV are no longer supported in the most recent and future firmware releases.

[grill]

...It would be interesting if somebody with the Beta firmware loaded could perform an experiment as to whether the Beta firmware will play a computer file-format DVD-R containing dsd files gaplessly, when this disk also contains a cue-sheet. I'm not clear on exactly what kinds of data these cue-sheets contain. But it occurs to me that if the format of these cue sheets is the same as the text-files which lists the contents of a "DSD-disk" (to those super-rare players which support them), that such a disk might then in fact be a "DSD disk"?

Nope. DSD Disc format and cue'd audio file(s) are two different things. See PS3SACD.com FAQs: DSD Disc guide Btw, SACD capable PS3 consoles support DSD Disc playback and more interestingly they play DSD discs with surround DSF tracks, too.

[TarnishedEars]

That`s true. Happy are those ones among us who are ignoring all the firmware updates

Until your player dies, and then you will probably no longer be able play SACD-Rs on anything which isn't thoroughly obsolete.

 

Hmmm... honestly, I can not imagine that the Oppo will accept such a disc. I have created a DSD-disc with help of Korg AudioGate, the Oppo didn`t play it. There was even no info at the display. When you want to play a SACD-R now with Beta-firmware installed, the display shows "unknown disc".

I'm waiting to update any of my players until I know the answer to this question for certain. But I am under the distinct impression that they will indeed now support computer file format DVD-Rs containing DSD data files. I know that the Oppos didn't used to support this format. This is a new feature. The SMB network DSD file support just happens to be another method of accessing dsd files.

 

This is actually a genuine advantage because it would mean all that Korg and TASCAM DSD recorder authored DSD DVD-Rs should now play on Oppos, not just PS3 ripped ISOs (as is currently the case). People's biggest complaints about this support currently seem to be centered around the inability of the Oppos to play DSD files gaplessly without using one of these cue-sheets.

 

My question is in regards to the format of these so-called "cue-sheets". Are these just simple text-files containing a list of filenames like those which are specified inside of the DSD-Disk standard? If they are, then this would mean that the Oppos would now have genuine DSD-Disk support, which is far preferable to ISO support in my book (since I own a Tascam DSD recorder). And I would think that creating such a disk from an SACD-R ISO file should be relatively straight-forward once you have extracted the DSD files from the ISO file.