LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[dariusb]

Hi,

 

I found that my Lumin app on Ipad was updated and one of the new features is automatic firmware update for the Lumin player.

 

I read through the Internet forums about Linn DS/PS audio PWD streamers sound quality(SQ) at the very beginning when they was just released and as I understood SQ improvement from release to release was for good(at least). The "last mile"(DAC chip and output stage) was not changed but SQ was improved, so in SQ not everything depends on the superduper h/w inside the nice box.

 

As I understood Lumin player is equipped with FPGA, where all decoding/coding/upsampling and etc process are performed. Lumin has the "brains" or processing power .

So in general Lumin as a "small kid" has a perspective to grow up and became to something, but everything depends how parents will educate he .

 

But this is a rhetorical question....

 

BR,

Darius

 

p.s

psme,

do you have an ideas what to put to the "brains" for your small kid"?

As I know pixel magic company has experience in video processing area, but not audio, so you are parents with the "first kid" .

[PeteS]

Does Lumin support multichannel flac via HDMI (out)?

 

br,

 

Pete

[ThierryNK]

@PSME

Hi PSME

 

For DSD, there are 2 files format, DST (compressed) and DSD (uncompressed).

 

When you make a DoP file with the foobar plugin you have provided, what is the DSD format included inside the PCM file? DST or DSD?

I am a bit lazy to make a deep dive in your sources :-)

 

Thanks.

Best and kind regards.

Thierry

[psme]

LUMIN does not support DSD with DST compression. I want to try how a DST compressed DSF/DIFF file behave anyway. Tried extracting a few of my ripped SACD ISO using sacd_extract with and without option -c, but the resulting files are the same size. Since DST on 2 channel section of a SACD is a "optional" option, I haven't find a SACD with DST on 2 channel yet...

[caskevin]

Hi psme,

 

it seems there is option 'de emphasis for 44.1 file' after update. What is this?

 

Kevin

[ThierryNK]

LUMIN does not support DSD with DST compression. I want to try how a DST compressed DSF/DIFF file behave anyway. Tried extracting a few of my ripped SACD ISO using sacd_extract with and without option -c, but the resulting files are the same size. Since DST on 2 channel section of a SACD is a "optional" option, I haven't find a SACD with DST on 2 channel yet...

 

Hi PSME

 

Maybe you do not have enough SACD :-)

 

I have about 300 SACD and I can tell you that about half of them are encoded with DST.

 

Here are some screen shots of my Foobar ISO Library seen with Kinsky

 

 

 

 

When I first prepared DSD track for Joël (I am sure you know who I am talking about), it was DFF tracks encoded with DST. They played on the Lumin (or we have made some big mistakes in our tracks sorting, when I read you say Lumin cannot read DST).

And we noticed that there were quite discrepancies with the same tracks encoded with DSD (ripped from the same SACD with the -c option)

 

It seems, according to file size, that your DoP plugin on Foobar produces DSD only tracks, whatever the ISO image is DST or DSD.

 

As a feedback to you, I have explored nearly all existing possibilities about Multimedia Servers for dealing with both Flac/AIF/Alac files and Iso images.

 

The best setup (ergonomics, rapidity, functionality) is the following:

 

- foobar only for ISO images. Real time DoP conversion when you have a DSD network player, Real time PCM convertion when you have a non DSD network player

- Jriver (with UPNP enabled) that relays foobar as the primary setup, and fetches Flac/AIF/ALAC from a hard drive or a NAS.

 

Then, on a Jriver Pilot (iPad, Android) you have a unique control of all your albums, whatever they come from foobar as a ISO image, or PCM files from other hard drives.

 

I use this setup for my Ayon S5 Network Player and I have suggested this setup to all the French Guys that have received their Lumin :-)

 

You can send me a private message if you need more information about this setup.

 

Best and kind regards.

Thierry

[ted_b]

I'm confused why anyone would convert using DST encoding? Why not always convert using DSF (full ID3V2 tagging supported) and always use the -c command to decode out DST, whether it's there or not. All 1000 of my SACDs play in J River and play in Lumin. None of them are problematic, all of them are easily interchangeable among players, and all of them are well tagged (unlike DFF). The DSD formats are DSF and DFF, not DST. DST is not a format, it is a compression algortihm used with high-content (read: multichannel) discs to allow for room. Since most players throw up on DST compression why encode it?? Storage is cheap.

[ThierryNK]

It is not a question of choice, it is a question of reality.

 

About half of existing SACD are encoded with compressed DSD, i.e. DST. Like this one for example:

 

 

Of course you can choose to extract the tracks with the conversion from DST to DSD with the -c option. If you do not want to use extra space to extract the tracks and use directly ISO images as Foobar allows, then you may want to know what you are doing with DoP. I made those tests, to know if real time DoP kept the original SACD format (ie DST or uncompressed DSD) or used systematically uncompressed DSD.

 

Not to have to extract tracks save me 30 minutes per SACD and a lot of disk space.

 

To know that uncompressed format as PCM AIF, WAVE, or uncompressed DSD, sounds better the compressed ones FLAC, ALAC or DST is an information about the software jitter that comes with some decoding processes, either on a computer, either on a network player.

 

The question of storage is not a question of price, but at least for me, it is a convenience and comfort issue.

 

With already more than 2 TB of music, with 2 backups, it is already 3 hard drives or NAS to manage. If I changed my Flac to Wave or Flac, I would need 6 hard drives. I currently have only 3 TB disks, Feedbacks for 4 TB drives are not sufficient yet and prices are too high.

 

If I wanted to keep my ISO images AND extract the DSD tracks, it would be 1 TB more right now.

 

About Jriver, can you confirm that its multimedia server cannot handle DSD? Jriver is able to decode it, but DSD tracks are not served but its multimedia server. Am i wrong?

 

Best and kind regards

Thierry

[ted_b]

Oops, direct playing ISOs right! Sorry.

 

 

About Jriver, can you confirm that its multimedia server cannot handle DSD? Jriver is able to decode it, but DSD tracks are not served but its multimedia server. Am i wrong?

 

Best and kind regards

Thierry

 

I do not know what you are asking? Multimedia? As I have documented all over here at CA, I use standard J River to play native DSD in both stereo and 5.1 varieties. My stereo is either ASIO (Mytek) or DoP (Meitner or Mytek). My multichannel stack are three Myteks, playing via USB hub in ASIO (J River 18, beta version 13x).

[ThierryNK]

No problem :-)

 

I mean UPNP Multimedia Server ie the software that is required by Network Players as Lumin, Linn Akurate, Ayon S5, etc and runs on a NAS, or a PC. (no lot of Multimedia Servers on Mac)

 

Jriver can be both a "decoder" to connect a PC to a DAC, or a Multimedia Server, to send files to be decoded on the network player.

 

Jriver is able to decode DSD and send the audio decoded flux to a DAC.

 

Jriver is also a Multimedia Server that is able to send files to Lumin, etc.

 

But Jriver (at least with my tries and after reading the docs), acting as a multimedia server, does not seem able to send DSD files.

 

So what do you use to feed the Lumin? :-)

 

Minimserver?

[ted_b]

Yes, Minimserver.

[psme]

hi ThierryNK,

 

I see the "Dark Side of the Moon" in your screen capture. So I tried extracting my ISO rip. Again, with or without -c option, the resulting .DSF tracks are the same size.

[psme]

Hi psme,

 

it seems there is option 'de emphasis for 44.1 file' after update. What is this?

 

Kevin

 

Check these thread for the detail of Pre/De-emphasis on Red Book Audio (CD):

Pre-emphasis - Hydrogenaudio Knowledgebase

List of CD players that can decode pre-emphasis | Steve Hoffman Music Forums

 

When a CD is played on a CD player, the CD player should read the CD TOC and each track's "sub-code" section to determine if "pre-emphasis" is applied in mastering, hence a "de-emphasis" process should be applied during playback.

 

Sadly, once a CD is ripped to a lossless audio file, the "pre-emphasis" flag is lost. There is no standard method to store the "emphasis" flag in an actual audio file (besides in a CUE sheet table, which won't work in LUMIN setup).

 

The LUMIN's "De-Emphasis for 44.1kHz CD Files" option is a manual switch to toggle Wolfson DAC's de-emphasis on/off. When you play a CD ripped audio file, and you know the audio file has "pre-emphasis" applied, please enable this option during playback for the proper audio output. Otherwise, keep the "de-emphasis" option at Off.

[ThierryNK]

hi ThierryNK,

 

I see the "Dark Side of the Moon" in your screen capture. So I tried extracting my ISO rip. Again, with or without -c option, the resulting .DSF tracks are the same size.

 

Have a look at the top of the images.

DSD64 or DST64

 

Dark Side of the Moon is in DSD64, as yours :-)

 

I prepare a track that I will put on my dropbox and send you the link by Private Message.

[psme]

Thanks for the hints. Tried playing a .DFF file with DST, LUMIN won't play, as expected.

 

When converted to DoP file using foobar2000 patched sacd plugin, DST will always be removed.

[ThierryNK]

Thanks PSME.

 

So we may have scr*wed something during the first tests. It was with Minimserver.

 

I will have a Lumin to test all saturday afternoon on my own system. I will be able to check and test every DSD format, and every multimedia server :-)

 

Best and kind regards.

Thierry

[wisnon]

6 Moons LOVES the Lumin!!!!

 

6moons audio reviews: Lumin, the Audiophile Network Player

[AZ Craig]

I'm a newbie here but thought that I'd throw in that I have been using the Lumin for about a month and am very happy with it. Initially, I was using a Mac Mini as a server with Audirvana Plus but, even with all other apps shut down, I still had noise so I took the plunge and bought the Lumin. I also bought a Qnap NAS as a file server and was pleasantly surprised that it works with my Mac as a backup for Time Machine too.

 

Anyway, the DSF files as rendered by my Lumin sound great with my system.

[Pale Rider]

I set up MinimServer on my Synology 411+ last night. Took a little longer than I expected, due to some network issues, but once I got it going, it wasn't bad. Good enough so that I think I will forego putting it on my Mac mini. And it is robust enough to make think about trying out a Lumin. I am reluctant to invest in another network DAC with less-than-full-baked software, but I do want the ability to play my nearly 300gb of DSD across the network. Sure wish Lumin had 128x built-in.

[ThierryNK]

I use Jriver on Parallel Desktop on a Mac Mini.

 

It is the best software and the best interface I have ever used (and I have tested all NAS multimedia servers, all audio softwares on Mac and Windows, all Control Points, from Kinsky to SongBook)

 

For example, Jriver is the only one to provide a "real" search function, on everything, including files names. Jremote on Ipad coupled with Jriver, is just wonderful.

 

Jriver UPNP server is OK with DFF and DSF files. Still not working with ISO images (except with conversion to PCM). All this was tested on a Lumin.

 

Best and kind regards

[Pale Rider]

Guess I am just not a JRiver fan on either platform. I have been trying the Mac OS X alpha release, which is definitely not ready for regular use, but is promising. And on the PC, well, even on my MacBookAir, running VMWare [which I use to run a few specialty apps, such as the computer interface to my Audi], I cannot stand that ugly interface. To each their own. :-D

 

Anyway, I contacted Lumin to purchase a unit, and was told today the price is now $5480USD. Sorry, a $1500 price hike—coincident it seems with the rave 6Moons review—now puts this player in the wrong price range. Just me. YMMV.

[ThierryNK]

Guess I am just not a JRiver fan on either platform. I have been trying the Mac OS X alpha release, which is definitely not ready for regular use, but is promising. And on the PC, well, even on my MacBookAir, running VMWare [which I use to run a few specialty apps, such as the computer interface to my Audi], I cannot stand that ugly interface. To each their own. :-D

 

Anyway, I contacted Lumin to purchase a unit, and was told today the price is now $5480USD. Sorry, a $1500 price hike—coincident it seems with the rave 6Moons review—now puts this player in the wrong price range. Just me. YMMV.

 

I give you my word, I am not a Jriver guy :-)

 

Just have a look at the pictures at the end of this article on my (French) blog

 

Hifiatubes: Musique dématérialisée » Archives du Blog » Recommandations générales pour lecteurs réseau

 

Computer interface may be more friendly, but from an iPad, if you find an equivalent for, functions, control and interface, give me a call!

 

All the best

[Pale Rider]

@TNK, no worries, I was not criticizing your objectivity. I get that a lot of people like JRMC, and I can see why. I am not faulting you at all, but I have tried JRMC. On both platforms [and will continue to keep testing on the Mac]. As for apps, the JRemote app seems decent enough, just not special enough to make me want to deal with JRMC.

 

On an iPad, I don't find it that much superior to any of the others. I have tried the remote apps designed for JRiver, the Lumin, the EMM. They all leave much to be desired, though each has their nice touches. But eye candy is not the same as good design. I was actually reasonably satisfied with the EMM iOS app; it is simple, clean, etc., but the server left a bit to be desired. There is not enough on the JRMC to make it worth using for me, especially not to be forced to use an app that really, to me, looks a lot like all the others.

 

Again, to each their own, and all the best!

 

Still a little cheesed about the unannounced Lumin price increase. Not true "bait & switch," but darn close.

[psme]

New LUMIN firmware 2.00 added Airplay support. You can select LUMIN as an Airplay "speaker" in iTunes, OSX, iOS etc.

 

Airplay is an interesting streaming system. For streaming 44.1kHz/16bit audio file, it actually streams in bit perfect!

 

Tried a CD with HDCD encoding, ripped to ALAC file, playing in regular UPnP AV mode, through LUMIN HDMI/BNC digital output in native 44.1KHz/16bit, to an external DAC with HDCD decoding function, the external DAC (a Denon AV pre-amp in my test) will indicate the signal is in HDCD format. That means from the ripped file, all the way to LUMIN digital output, are all in the original bit perfect digital data.

 

 

In Airplay mode, with the same ripped 44.1KHz/16bit file, playing on a PC's iTunes, using LUMIN as a Airplay device, output from LUMIN HDMI/BNC digital output to the same HDCD enabled DAC, the DAC can still see the HDCD format. On the PC, if lower the PC speaker volume 1 step below Max, the DAC will lose the HDCD indicator. Keep PC speaker volume at Max, the external DAC will see the HDCD format again, while playing in LUMIN Airplay mode.

 

 

That proves for CD ripped file in 44.1Khz/16bit lossless file, playing in Airplay mode, can still send the original bit perfect data stream to the LUMIN. For 44.1Khz/16bit lossless file, LUMIN gets the same lossless data, both in UPnP and Airplay mode!

 

 

Now we can compare audio quality, if there is any difference!

[ThierryNK]

Are you sure it is a so good idea to provide this function?

 

With AirPlay, it is an audio decode flux which is transmitted, no longer a track. The track is decoded to PCM on the computer, no more on the network player.

 

The main strength of Nerwork players is to avoid jitter between decoding and DAC, and avoid jitter from local hard drives.

 

With an audio flux trasmission over Ethernet, welcome back jitter and bad sound.

 

Now, you have provided the opportunity to competitors and testers to get bad sound from the Lumin.

 

Another engineer idea for sure. The more functions, the better.

No marketing analysis at Lumin? Who needs such function on a network player?

And welcome the opportunity to get terrible sound from the Lumin.

 

I know this post may be considered as tough or impolite.

 

Please consider it as a support from a big Lumin fan.

 

Best and kind regards