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LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player


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hi Darius,

 

Don't put too much pressure on yourself! Simply enjoy the music! :)

 

psme,

 

psme,

 

I know I know.... but as everybody I also has some expectation for this new equipment.

I will stop comparing new and my old gear at least till end of the week, till this time equipment will be burned-in for ~200h.

Lumin is not a tube based gear, so till this time sound should be more-less stable.

I will have time to tag my music library :)

 

Darius

Power Amplifier: PassLabs XA30.5

Pre Amplifier: PassLabs XP10

Network Players: Lumin

Interconnects Cables: Nordost Heimdall XLR

Speakers: Audio Physic Virgo V mkII

Speaker Cables: Inakustik LS-1102

Power cables: DIY

NAS: Qnap 119, Minimserver

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I will stop comparing new and my old gear at least till end of the week, till this time equipment will be burned-in for ~200h.

 

Darius

This is right! Simply listen to music on Lumin and after a while try to listen again transporter. Fast change of a source at testing is not always a correct variant of testing.

 

Serge.

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Lumin arrived for eval. :)

 

So....I have a few questions to all of you who might have opinions.

 

1) I use a Synology NAS for my CAPS-to-Meitner PCM and DSD file serving (no UPnP, etc). I plan on installing/activating the Synology UPnP app (as per Lumin) and installing Minimserver there. Can I still use the NAS for the CAPS (i.e simple file serving) while I also use it for the Lumin.....I'd like to a/b the two server/DAC setups on two different inputs to my preamp.

 

2) My music room has only one ethernet connection so i will install a simple gigabit switch to have ethernet connections to both the CAPS and the Lumin, using a couple short rocketfish (best buy) cat 6 cables. Right now I have this: Dynex

Any issues I should be aware of with this setup?

 

Thanks, Ted

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Ted. I don't think you'll need to install te Synology UPnp server first. Just install MinimServer.

 

The switch looks fine.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Ted. I don't think you'll need to install te Synology UPnp server first. Just install MinimServer.

 

The switch looks fine.

 

Eloise

 

Eloise,

Thanks, but the Lumin quickstart page says kind of the opposite; i.e start up the Synology UPnP app but makes no distinct mention of Minimserver (except in the detailed support pages). I do not want to over-install anything, and surely don't want to muck up my nice minimalist CAPS-Meitner music system (i.e no installing anything on the CAPS).

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psme,

 

psme,

 

I know I know.... but as everybody I also has some expectation for this new equipment.

I will stop comparing new and my old gear at least till end of the week, till this time equipment will be burned-in for ~200h.

Lumin is not a tube based gear, so till this time sound should be more-less stable.

I will have time to tag my music library :)

 

Darius

 

 

Hello Darius,

 

I received my Lumin loaner at the same time and I am still impressed with the overall sound quality.

IMO the Logitech Transporter is a great source but at home, the Lumin is performing better than the Aurender S10 connected to my Esoteric K03 player.

I am experiencing now the DSD streaming capabilities and it is really another dimension. The Channel Classics downloads are really impressive, sound definitely better than SACDs. You should give a try...

2L also offers free downloads of DSD tracks.

 

Joël

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Ted B, please post on the Zuma thread your impressions of the Caps 2 plus vs. the Lumin. Thanks.

 

I haven't unboxed the Lumin yet, and plan to give it hundreds of hours before any eval. When i do the Zuma page will likely not be where I post it cuz I have no Zuma in my system, in my plans or in my evaluation. No offense. I will post here. :)

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Just a little general feedback and advice from the everyday use of Network Players...

 

Do not use a Gigabit Switch. Mixing the NAS Gigabit Ethernet Interface with the 100 MBps Network Players interfaces, lead to dropouts and "up and down" outputs from the Multimedia Server on the NAS, useless re-send of data, errors signals from the Network Player to the Multimedia Server, useless traffic, etc.

Except if you use a high quality Gbit Switch that is able to deal very efficiently with the mix of 100 and 1000 Mbps interfaces.

 

A 10/100 MBps switch solves any communication issue that may happen (and they happen on Very High Sampling tracks).

 

Best

Thierry

Thierry

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So, a Lumin update. I unboxed the Lumin system (player, power supply and cables). It is packaged beautifully, and the build quality of both the player and the power supply is of VERY high quality. The player itself is nicely carved out of aluminum and deserves a spot on the top of one's high-end rack (especially given that the player has a design that hides all cabling from the top view, with a protruding "roof" over the back panel that makes the unit look larger than it is, and retains a very clean clutter-free appearance. This design does not interfere with setup, however.

 

I hit quite a few snags, but they were all user error or the unfortunate fact that my Synology DS410, a 2012 purchase, is a lowly ppc processor and not available to be streamed directly to the Lumin, via neither its own shitty horrible (did I say bad, waste of time) Media Server app, nor able to install Minimserver (which requires a Synology with an ARM or x86 architecture). This lack of knowledge (thanks psme for coming to the rescue on a Sunday afternoon) caused me to re-index my folders numerous times and waste a great portion of my day (although watched football while all this was being indexed-for-no-reason).

 

I finally simply installed Minimserver on my home office desktop, pointed it to my NAS music folders, and am now playing DSD (that took like an hour, max). I won't comment on sound quality until this player is well broken in.

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Just a friendly observation, and if I'm off base I apologize, but it sure seems like Lumin is receiving a lot of "free press" here that other manufacturers don't typically enjoy. This is almost like a perpetual ad for Lumin (IMHO). . . .

 

Apparently lots of us are interested. Check the main Mytek 192 DSD thread, which quickly grew to gargantuan proportions due only to user interest. It's probably the most looked at resource for info about the Mytek on the web. That's the beauty of the forum.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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^ Good luck with it all Ted.

 

Right now I'm exploring how to do the 180 degree opposite of network streaming. I'm over network streaming hi rez files. As I write this, I am still getting drop outs from my Linn playing Keith Jarrett 24/96 4608 Kbps....Having battled with this for near on 2-3 years now, I'm doing the complete reverse. With double pike. I want to play the files straight off a player like the Invicta for single room (hiend) and something like the Autonomic Controls mm5 for multi room. Your turn to be a crash test dummy on streaming Ted. Oh and BTW listen to Thierry. He's right about mixing gigabit and 10/100 switches.. :) As a matter of interest, what is the ethernet in the Lumin? Gigabit or 10/100?

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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^ When I said gigabit and 10/100 switches, I meant mixing gigabit switches and 10/100 network player interfaces (as Thierry pointed out).. Cheers

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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As I write this, I am still getting drop outs from my Linn playing Keith Jarrett 24/96 4608 Kbps....Having battled with this for near on 2-3 years now, I'm doing the complete reverse.

 

The problem is not with network streaming. It's your network setup, for whatever reason!

 

Here I've a Linn Klimax and the LUMIN (of course) streamer. Network setup is a simply Dlink gigabit router, a dlink 8-ports gigabit switch, 2 QNAP 1 bay NAS (112 and 119), a Synology 1 bay NAS (112), a Win7 PC (for library management), all connected in 1G wired network using quality LAN cable.

 

I never experienced drop out. Network streaming is perfectly smooth even playing native 352khz/32bit AIFF at around 20Mbps. Network streaming works fine IMO. Well, YMMV! :)

 

PS: if possible, do NOT stream from a PC/Mac. You never knew there maybe some random background task which may hold up the CPU and cause streaming hiccup.

associated with LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

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Darius

 

so how is Transporter (which I own as well, although modded) versus Lumin?

Can you describe you impression separately for redbook and high-rez?

Transporter - as to me - was exceptionally good with high-rez, even when I compared it to Weiss DAC202, EMM XDS1

 

Hi Michael,

 

The only one source I have to compare Lumin is transporter, I wish to have a chance to listen to Weiss/EMM :), but it is no way to do this at least in the place where I live.

 

For redbook files there is no doubt that Lumin is better(at least for me and in my system), now after ~250 hours of playing music sound of the Lumin become more stable( some time ago I write that Lumin SQ was "degraded"(better to say Lumin&Transporter SQ suddenly become very close)), it doeasn't mean that I don't like transporter, I can live with it for sure, but Lumin sounds better in every area.

For High-Rez(96/24bit) files the Lumin's SQ is still better or I like it more, but difference in this case not so big/evident. Overall "fingerprint" of the Lumin SQ stays with hi-rez materials.

I have no any DSD files(I need to figure out what is wrong with my foobar settings, because I can't convert files from SACD rip) to listen to, but I hope I will solve my problems.

 

BR,

Darius

Power Amplifier: PassLabs XA30.5

Pre Amplifier: PassLabs XP10

Network Players: Lumin

Interconnects Cables: Nordost Heimdall XLR

Speakers: Audio Physic Virgo V mkII

Speaker Cables: Inakustik LS-1102

Power cables: DIY

NAS: Qnap 119, Minimserver

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@Ted_b

I have some difficulties to understand your opinion about Synology Multimedia Server.

Best

Thierry

 

It sucks; is the most unintuitive setup I've ever seen.. And for the Lumin it doesn't work. It's a moot point cuz I'm using minimserver, but not sure what you didn't understand. I don't like it! The word "sh$tty" should have been a giveaway. :)

 

Wap, I am hardly a streaming guinea pig (or crash test dummy). I was Dan Wright's (Modwright) first commercial Modwright Transporter customer (and started a 100 page thread about it on AC) and have used Squeezeboxes for years. Streaming hirez is not difficult once setup. So far my 24/192 and DSD via Lumin has no dropouts; I don't expect any. But I'd much rather stream via NAS than my generic home office Dell desktop; oh well. It was one of the reasons I was so interested in the Lumin. DSD and Synology. I have one of two working. Synology needs to be x86 or ARM; mine is neither, yet my DS410 model is less than 18 months old. ?

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Click on packages center

Find multimedia center

Click on "install"

Put your tracks in "music" directory

That's all.

 

If you want to customize the menu layout that appears on Control Points, you can open Multimedia Server on the NAS Web interface and chose each high level title and content by drag and drop.

 

If this is too complex, never try to configure Minimserver or Twonky.

 

Do not forget to install the Minim appli on Mac or PC and to restart Minimserver each time you add a track to your NAS.

 

Best and kind regards.

Thierry

Thierry

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Click on packages center

Find multimedia center

Click on "install"

Put your tracks in "music" directory

That's all.

Thierry, please don't be condescending. Of course it is easy to "install" the app; it's a simple button on the package page! That is not what I am talking about. Oh, and I am not about to move my 3 TB of music to a "music" directory (thereby messing up my NAS setup for my CAPS server, etc) so i had to create a new pointer to my folders..the process of which was not spelled out in the instructions at all.

If you want to customize the menu layout that appears on Control Points, you can open Multimedia Server on the NAS Web interface and chose each high level title and content by drag and drop.

This is where the app fails IMHO. These high level titles never appeared on the Lumin. The app also did not pick up any tags or cover art, until I went to the "indexing multimedia" section of the NAS's control panel. It was there that I needed to re-index (took about 3 hours of that) in order for my 3 TB to be seen with any tags. I have 7500 albums, 900 of which are DSD; the app-to-Lumin saw 88 of them. Psme thinks this is becuase the NAS is ppc and Lumin is not compatible with the Synology app.

 

 

If this is too complex, never try to configure Minimserver or Twonky.

 

Do not forget to install the Minim appli on Mac or PC and to restart Minimserver each time you add a track to your NAS.

 

Don't forget to install? Huh? Of course I installed minimserver; I've said it 3 times. It also is one of the lesser apps I've used. J River, Pure music, Audirvana, Fidelia, SqueezeCenter, yadayada. They are all better than what I've seen so far. And most audit the music folders so re-starting is not necessary. What a pain. So, yes, I stand on what I said. Thank you for the condescending instructions though...very helpful.

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English is not my native language. I am French. Sorry if my post appeared to be condescending. It was not my intention at all.

 

The question of the relevant directories to scan is indeed not very clear on Synology. And the separation of "indexing" and "server" is not a good idea.

 

For Mimimserver, you missed the point, certainly because my English is not very good.

 

Minimserver does not have a deamon that updates the server real time. You have a control application on the desktop (when Minimserver runs on a NAS) that control Minimserver.

When you add a file to the server, you need to restart Minimserver to take the new files into account.

 

Synology or Twonky do not need to be restarted each time you add a file.

 

Lumin works perfectly with Synology multimedia server (and others).

 

Lumin Control Point application had decided to hide the menus structure except the basic ones. It is a Lumin app question, not a server one.

 

Kinsky (free) or Songbook lite (paying) allows to handle music and can see everything you decide on the server side.

 

Best and kind regards

Thierry

Thierry

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Do not use a Gigabit Switch...

Except if you use a high quality Gbit Switch that is able to deal very efficiently with the mix of 100 and 1000 Mbps interfaces.

 

Best

Thierry

I assume that gigabit switches like DLink DGS-1005G (D-Link | DGS-1005G 5-Port Gigabit Desktop Switch) are able to transfer automatically in the necessary high-speed operation mode of 10/100/1000 Mbps depending on speed supported by the attached device and no mixing is present.

 

Serge

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Hello Mihaylov

 

What I have noticed was more a question of "too high speed" from the NAS than a "not enough fast" transfer.

A 24/192 track is "only" 1 Mo/s (8 Mb/s). Most NAS are able of more than 60 Mo/s output ( 480 Mb/s).

Monitoring what was happening from the NAS with a (low cost) Gbit switch was a non smooth output, up and down outputs, the player interface asking again for data that had been already sent, but not arrived, by the NAS.

 

I am not saying that this happens on every NAS, every multimedia server and every Switch.

I am just sharing an experience that happened also to some people around me. Network specialists that I consulted told me it was not a good idea to mix gigabit and 100 megabit devices on a gigabit switch. Up and down outputs can void the buffer in the network player, then you have dropouts, even if the global mean output speed is above what is required.

Using a 100 Mbit switch solved every issue of this kind for me and for others.

 

NAS were Synology and Qnap. Multimedia servers were Twonky, Synology and Minimserver. The gigabit switches were the ones you can find for 20-30$.

All this depends also upon the size of the buffers in the network player.

 

Best and kind regards.

Thierry

Thierry

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LOL. And you guys say streaming is not difficult! What so starting the car isn't part of actual driving?

 

Let me assure you later on down the track problems will occur. A firmware update here. A third party change there. Or a power outage. Or you will add something else to your network. Or .... Yes. Of course. Once things are *finally* tweaked you might be able to play and stream hirez files. There is no denying that. The big test is months down the track. In a living, breathing, moving chaos type environment: such is my family and home network. With what is it now? Oh yeh. 10 Sonos zones. 6 Control 4. 6 computers. 3 different wifi meshes. And 20 odd other devices that randomly log onto my network...

 

That's what I'm talking about. Does one truly want your only hiend player dependant on a network in that enviroment ? As I said. I've found thru practical real life experience it doesn't work for me. It doesn't mean it's not suitable for others. Just pointing out some potential pitfalls. Good luck guys.

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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