LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[psme]

Lunim v/s WEISS 301 v/s Aurender v/s....

 

Gentlemen, may be you can help me to choose. I am hesitating between several solutions for my next Audio Server. I don't want a PC based solution but a physical server like this one.

 

In my list are the LUMIN, but also the WEISS 301 (with or without internal DAC), the Aurender, and the QAT M5, and to some extend the Audioresearch REF DAC. I am forgetting some ??

 

You said you don't want a PC based solution. Weiss 301, Aurrender, and QAT MS5, they are PC based!

 

I haven't heard the Weiss 301. I do know a few Weiss 202 users switched to LUMIN...

[Nicoben45]

Hello psme, no comment about the power supply described behind ?

Regards, Nicolas.

[Holzohr]

I'm hearing good reports of the new T+A streamer too.

-----------------

I can not really recommend the T+A Music Players. I had the Music Receiver, later the MP Balanced. Each time when the sampling rate is changing you can hear a "relais click". That`s very annoying especially in shuffle mode when you have lot of music in other sampling rate than 44,1 kHz. I couldn`t live with that. Also I found the sound quite thin, flat opposite to an Oppo 105 (both were connected to a T+A PP Balanced via XLR).

 

I still didn`t hear the new T+A HV Player but was told by a T+A seller that it has these clicks, too.

Besides, the new T+A Player is not DSD ready. *thumbs down*

[ThierryNK]

Every High End source has a "relais click" when changing sampling rate. Including the Lumin when you start a DSD track (on a PCM track the click is very very low), or Ayon S5.

If you want to avoid this, then you have to put some capacity or solid state device on the signal path. This highly degrades the audio quality.

You have to chose: the shortest signal path and the best quality, or a small click in sampling rate changes and less transparency when playing music.

 

I also know people who do not like live concerts because of others coughing.

 

Best regards

[Audio_ELF]

None of these do DSD over network.

True... But I thought the question was general streamers as several of those mentioned didn't do DSD either.

 

Eloise

[Holzohr]

Every High End source has a "relais click" when changing sampling rate.

 

You want to say it is a feature of "High End" streamers? That`s not "High End" to me then. I don`t need these clicks. There are even albums with songs in 44,1 and 48 kHz. It was very audible with the T+A streamer. Thank God, my Lyngdorf doesn`t have these clicks. Only when turning on/off. Well, it is working as a DAC. When the LUMIN has these clicks, too.. then I better stay with my cheap Touch for PCM and my Oppo for DSD.

 

Btw, you contradict yourself. At first you write that every High End source has a relais click when changing the sampling rate and then you write

You have to chose: the shortest signal path and the best quality, or a small click in sampling rate changes and less transparency when playing music.

 

Bien sur, I want the first.. without clicks!

[ThierryNK]

There is no contradiction in what I said. Read again. Removing the clicks lead to introducing solid states devices on the signal path, and this leads to less transparency.

 

It is a DAC design question, not a network player question.

 

One day, try to listen to high end DACs, and ask designers about all this. You may trust them more than me.

 

Best regards

[Holzohr]

I have read again:

Every High End source has a "relais click" when changing sampling rate.

You have to chose: (Either) the shortest signal path and the best quality, or a small click in sampling rate changes and less transparency when playing music.

Still contradicting to me. Ok, my Lyngdorf is not "high end" (you seem to be a big friend of this term?) because it has no clicks. I appreciate its clickless signal path because relais clicks between two songs with different sampling rate would ruin the "transparency" before. We already had this discussion in the German hifi-forum. There were people who didn`t care about these clicks, also due to the lack of hi-res files. And there were people like me who found that very disturbing.

 

It is a DAC design question, not a network player question.

True.

One day, try to listen to high end DACs, and ask designers about all this. You may trust them more than me.

The T+A MP Balanced was the most expensive DAC/streamer I owned so far. After all I was disappointed from its DAC qualities. I found the (Sabre-) DAC of the Oppo 105 much better. And imagine there were no clicks with the Oppo! Probably not high end

 

Btw, I was asking the T+A support. They pretended to have heard the very first time about this. It made me believe that no one from the guys there owns hi-res files.

Well, now I have the Lyngdorf as a "Power-DAC". It works as it has to be. I have big trust in the design by Peter Lyngdorf. There is no plan to test any other stand-alone "high end" DACs for the moment. I am only interested in a DSD ready streamer.

[ThierryNK]

My strong apologies.

Sorry for this big missleading typo.

 

Shortest signal path, transparency and clicks on clock and circuit changes /

Correction of the clock and circuit clicks, and less transparency.

 

Really very sorry.

 

Best regards

[MikeJazz]

Well, now I have the Lyngdorf as a "Power-DAC". It works as it has to be. I have big trust in the design by Peter Lyngdorf. There is no plan to test any other stand-alone "high end" DACs for the moment. I am only interested in a DSD ready streamer.

 

Rendu seems to do that trick. Maybe you could test on and let us know...

 

BTW,

If you find a DAC ("high end" or not) that represents a clear improvement over the TDAI, let me know.

[Holzohr]

Rendu seems to do that trick. Maybe you could test on and let us know...

Thank you for mentioning the Rendu! I remember that Simon from MinimServer was telling about it. Seems it is available for US only? PureDSD OPTION is "coming soon". I have bookmarked the Sonore webpage.

 

BTW,

If you find a DAC ("high end" or not) that represents a clear improvement over the TDAI, let me know.

I have no intention at all to look for another DAC. Do you? I am happy with the TDAI, have mounted the AD card one week ago, finally.

 

Ok, it is the LUMIN thread. I just wanted to share my opinion about the T+A streamer(s). Honestly, I am negatively surprised that other "high end" DACs have these described relay clicks, too. I am allergic on that.

[cubase]

Hi Hollzohr,

 

As a Lumin owner, I can confirm that there is a small noise when changing from DSD to PCM and back. This is really soft and not disturbing at all. I can also confirm that I didn't hear that noise with my former amp which was less transparent. This is really a small price to pay to have better sound quality in my opinion.

 

Best regards

[Holzohr]

Thank you, cubase!

 

I think, I wouldn`t mind soft clicks when changing from DSD to PCM and back. Can you confirm these clicks when the sampling rate is changing? (e.g. 44,1 to 96kHz or 176,4 to 48kHz)

With the T+A streamer these clicks were not really "soft" to my "wooden" ears (Holzohren).

 

With the Lumin, I probably would prefer this realtime up-sampling PCM to DSD. I guess that`s also a way to avoid possible clicks.

[psme]

hmm... some damage control here! About the "click" in LUMIN, it's really quite subtle IMO! In fact I totally not notice the "click" at listening seat! I do understand other similar product with much noisy relay noise, because I hate that too!

[psme]

Quick question: does this server allow also for direct (without using a PC) Internet Radio access and streaming services ?

 

We are working on direct Internet Radio function. The development time is longer than we thought due to lots of paper work with some portal site. And quite a bit of work to implement their API on LUMIN. Anyway, we will get it done, hopefully sooner than later.

 

In the meanwhile, since LUMIN supports airplay, you can use iPhone/iPad/iPod to stream internet radio to LUMIN. No need for a PC.

[dariusb]

We are working on direct Internet Radio function. The development time is longer than we thought due to lots of paper work with some portal site. And quite a bit of work to implement their API on LUMIN. Anyway, we will get it done, hopefully sooner than later.

 

In the meanwhile, since LUMIN supports airplay, you can use iPhone/iPad/iPod to stream internet radio to LUMIN. No need for a PC.

I'm using TuneIn on my Ipad/Iphone and it's quite ok for me.

[ThierryNK]

hmm... some damage control here! About the "click" in LUMIN, it's really quite subtle IMO! In fact I totally not notice the "click" at listening seat! I do understand other similar product with much noisy relay noise, because I hate that too!

In fact, those clicks are a good test for... Preamplifiers

If you cannot here it, then the preamplifier is "eating" a part of the signal.

 

Kind regards.

[Holzohr]

hmm... some damage control here! About the "click" in LUMIN, it's really quite subtle IMO! In fact I totally not notice the "click" at listening seat! I do understand other similar product with much noisy relay noise, because I hate that too!

Thanks psme. Indeed I was always an album listener till I tried the shuffle mode with that T+A streamer. Unfortunately in that mode, I couldn`t ignore the clicks at listening seat.

 

In fact, those clicks are a good test for... Preamplifiers

If you cannot here it, then the preamplifier is "eating" a part of the signal.

A "high ender", who accepts relay clicks when listening. That`s hard to understand Well, the tastes are different. I guess you are rather an album listener. Then it makes sense to me.

 

Regards

[ThierryNK]

Hello Holzohr

 

I accept clicks because there is an understandable technological reason linked to the search of the higher transparency through an entire system. When an electron sneezes in the source power supply, it is good yo know that the signal goes to the speakers

 

I also have playlists where there can be a click when there is a sampling rate change.

 

You prefer pure silence between a Mozart and an Oscar Peterson track. I perfectly understand.

 

I do not care at all.

 

I would care inside an album. Or no gapless for a live concert or an opera.

 

People coughing between the parts of a concert and even during the music, do not bother me neither. That is life.

 

Best and kind regards.

[One and a half]

Hello Holzohr

 

I accept clicks because there is an understandable technological reason linked to the search of the higher transparency through an entire system. When an electron sneezes in the source power supply, it is good yo know that the signal goes to the speakers

 

I also have playlists where there can be a click when there is a sampling rate change.

 

You prefer pure silence between a Mozart and an Oscar Peterson track. I perfectly understand.

 

I do not care at all.

 

I would care inside an album. Or no gapless for a live concert or an opera.

 

People coughing between the parts of a concert and even during the music, do not bother me neither. That is life.

 

Best and kind regards.

 

I don't have a Lumin, however my DAC also relay switches at every fs change, including DSD. I believe the relay mutes the output briefly to ensure the new fs is detected correctly. If this is not muted you end up with some ugly mess on your tweeter. A relay is simple and the resistance very low, so it doesn't impact on SQ (well not that much if at all).

Some DACs do silent muting, they go through gates which do the same function, maybe a muting function on the DAC chip itself, like a suppression command. Higher end DACs may not have this ability as each processing section may be different and difficult to implement, that's why they use the relay. Life cycle typically for a small relay is 500k + operations, and are readily replaceable as their formats are similar between manufacturers. You could end up with a new DAC before the relay expires

 

I don't mind the click, at least I know there's something coming very quickly.

[dariusb]

Lumin Audiophile Network Music Player 6Moons Lunar Eclipse Award 2013! | Transports | Atlanta, Georgia 30305 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community

 

for someone it can be good chance to own Lumin for a little less

 

 

p.s

It is not my Lumin

[la1209]

Dear All,

 

After almost three weeks of hard work, the final ultimate version LPS for Lumin is out!!

Handcrafted by myself in Hong Kong, and finally bring Lumin to another world!

Attached some pictures for your reference!

 

 

 

 

 

[ThierryNK]

Is Lumin warranty still valid when using your power supply?

 

Many Lumin owners may be interested, including myself, but Lumin has to clarify this point first.

 

Kind regards

[psme]

As long as nothing changed inside LUMIN, I guess LUMIN couldn't know! From LUMIN point of view, that's just like a power cord change...

 

PS: that indeed looks very nice!

[Audio_ELF]

As long as nothing changed inside LUMIN, I guess LUMIN couldn't know! From LUMIN point of view, that's just like a power cord change...

 

PS: that indeed looks very nice!

I would guess that if there was a problem with your LUMIN caused by the power supply they could refuse to fix it under warranty. Most manufacturers consider the warranty zoid if you use it with an unapproved PSU (e.g. Musical Fidelity with V-series and Naim).

 

Eloise