Go to active speakers (vs SQ & cost) ! Daddy's setup with amp+speaker is dead

[tgb]

Hi,

The title of this topic is clear enough, isn't it ? 😀

 

Last years, teens & "forever-teen" that want to create music => they get active speakers

Why? => because it's cheaper than Daddy's setup => amp+passive speakers

 

Cheaper is it the key factor ? => YES !

BUT, does cheaper match "better SQ" ?

what ever the cost of 2 active speakers => their SQ outperforms any passive setup

thus => passive setup based on amp+speaker is a no go in 2023, unless you're goal is to show off vs others to "show" your beasts, LOL

 

Going actives is => 1 shot (1 buy) => 2 targets => meanaing => high SQ & low cost

 

What's your feedback about that ?

 

I'll give my experience afterwards, going from passive... & give it a try to an active setup (keeping my digital stuff ahead). "Try" cause I was not sure (due to very few info on hifi forums), but given 14 days refund when you buy thru web sites resellees (I'm in EU) "trying" was just a question of time (14days...)

This try lasted 2s... no go back... and even more to come with mods on the digital stuffs aheads... LOL....

 

what about you ?

Rgds

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, tgb said:

Hi,

The title of this topic is clear enough, isn't it ? 😀

 

Last years, teens & "forever-teen" that want to create music => they get active speakers

Why? => because it's cheaper than Daddy's setup => amp+passive speakers

 

Cheaper is it the key factor ? => YES !

BUT, does cheaper match "better SQ" ?

what ever the cost of 2 active speakers => their SQ outperforms any passive setup

thus => passive setup based on amp+speaker is a no go in 2023, unless you're goal is to show off vs others to "show" your beasts, LOL

 

Going actives is => 1 shot (1 buy) => 2 targets => meanaing => high SQ & low cost

 

What's your feedback about that ?

 

I'll give my experience afterwards, going from passive... & give it a try to an active setup (keeping my digital stuff ahead). "Try" cause I was not sure (due to very few info on hifi forums), but given 14 days refund when you buy thru web sites resellees (I'm in EU) "trying" was just a question of time (14days...)

This try lasted 2s... no go back... and even more to come with mods on the digital stuffs aheads... LOL....

 

what about you ?

Rgds

You’re joking right?

[AudioDoctor]

I guess active speakers CAN be cheaper... but do you know what kind of system you can put together for the cost of these Focal powered studio monitors?

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Trio11BePair--focal-trio11-be-10-inch-powered-studio-monitor-pair

 

Dynaudio may have more expensive powered speakers still. Then, we get to Linn and I am sure there are others I don't even know of.

[Shadorne]

I can’t really comment impartially. I use active speakers for everything. They are usually far from the cheapest for the best designs. Yamaha is my preferred portable for live shows. (Yamaha bought a good French company called Nexo  with excellent designs - one of the very few very loud portable two way horn speakers with a good mid range). Small Studio is Genelec. Home is large ATC. None of the actives I use are cheap but they are for me the best I can find for the application I have. Actives have enormous technical advantages over passives if done correctly but few are. Passives are ok but the passive crossover is a huge limitation/handicap for these designs. That said 60 or 70 years of passive designs have achieved some pretty good sounding speakers.

[firedog]

True actives (digital crossover) will generally give better sound for less money than many conventional systems. Obviously, there is no one size fits all answer to this question.

Properly designed, such systems have a much better match between speakers and amp than you can get with separates. 

[botrytis]

Problem with powered is when they break, how does one fix them?

 

I have no dog in this race and have no opinion one way or another.

[Kimo]

1 hour ago, botrytis said:

Problem with powered is when they break, how does one fix them?

 

I have no dog in this race and have no opinion one way or another.

 

And they can weight a ton.  At least the ATCs.  

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 hours ago, firedog said:

True actives (digital crossover) will generally give better sound for less money than many conventional systems. Obviously, there is no one size fits all answer to this question.

Properly designed, such systems have a much better match between speakers and amp than you can get with separates. 

I agree for the most part. However, the much better match part is a little unintentionally misleading. There are a limited number of amps and technologies manufacturers can include inside a speaker cabinet. The match is the best, considering the limited options and space & heat constraints. 

[Kimo]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I agree for the most part. However, the much better match part is a little unintentionally misleading. There are a limited number of amps and technologies manufacturers can include inside a speaker cabinet. The match is the best, considering the limited options and space & heat constraints. 

 

Well, the absence of passive crossovers should make the amp's job much easier.  That said, the best result for your 3 way active speakers would include 6 identical mono amps, and the active crossovers located outside the cabinet.  This should make for a lovely audiophile visual, but may drag the WAF down a bit.

[vinylvalet]

Actives are no heavier than many passive speakers.

 

Regarding servicing, at least with ATC, the "amp packs" are easily removed and would ship to the service center much the same way an amp would.

 

I think US gear heads disparage active speakers mostly because it gives them two less things (amps and speaker cables) to dick with. Most of that group have also not heard a well designed, properly set up active speaker system. Just a lot of speculation.

[The Computer Audiophile]

16 minutes ago, vinylvalet said:

Actives are no heavier than many passive speakers.

 

Regarding servicing, at least with ATC, the "amp packs" are easily removed and would ship to the service center much the same way an amp would.

 

I think US gear heads disparage active speakers mostly because it gives them two less things (amps and speaker cables) to dick with. Most of that group have also not heard a well designed, properly set up active speaker system. Just a lot of speculation.

What would be your well designed active system that people should hear?

[vinylvalet]

ATC active is probably the best known and regarded in both pro and consumer applications. Perhaps an active Legacy Audio system.

 

ATC Client List

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, vinylvalet said:

ATC active is probably the best known and regarded in both pro and consumer applications. Perhaps an active Legacy Audio system.

 

ATC Client List

I’ve heard ATC at shows, but have never heard people talk about them as highly regarded. There is a mystique about them and a lot of hearsay. 
 

Kii makes some great active speakers. 

[cjf]

If I were literally starting from scratch today and wanted to build a satisfying system with as few components as possible, knowing what I know now (this is key), then I would buy an Active speaker setup for my main rig.

 

One reason being, unless I win the lottery, I couldn't afford to repurchase the level of system I have now at todays prices. So given this, I'm pretty sure I could spend 1/2 of what I have invested today in my passive setup on an Active setup and still walk away happy. Will it sound as good? Honestly, I do have my doubts but who knows. I'm half deaf by now anyway 🤣

 

With that said though, every time I see these I can feel a bead of sweat forming on my brow and my wallet running for the hills

 

[vinylvalet]

Might be that you're speaking mostly with gear heads. No mystique among that broad client list I posted. Certainly no mystique in the pro audio community. The hearsay I've heard are from folks that have never heard a pair.

 

I heard Kii speakers twice and was not impressed.

 

Another one I've not heard but have read good things about are the Dutch & Dutch 8C actives.

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, vinylvalet said:

Might be that you're speaking mostly with gear heads. No mystique among that broad client list I posted. Certainly no mystique in the pro audio community. The hearsay I've heard are from folks that have never heard a pair.

 

I heard Kii speakers twice and was not impressed.

 

Another one I've not heard but have read good things about are the Dutch & Dutch 8C actives.

What’s a gear head?

[Kimo]

6 minutes ago, vinylvalet said:

Might be that you're speaking mostly with gear heads. No mystique among that broad client list I posted. Certainly no mystique in the pro audio community. The hearsay I've heard are from folks that have never heard a pair.

 

I heard Kii speakers twice and was not impressed.

 

Another one I've not heard but have read good things about are the Dutch & Dutch 8C actives.

 

I know a pro guitarist who hates them.  Of course, he dislikes passive Harbeth, as well.  He loves Shindo, so make of it what you will.  

 

Lots of criticism on Gearspace, as well.  Think the studio guys have heard them.

[Kimo]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

What’s a gear head?

 

If he is referring specifically to a typical American audiophile, a 78 year old man with lots of money and little time left.

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, Kimo said:

 

If he is referring specifically to a typical American audiophile, a 78 year old man with lots of money and little time left.

Surely you jest. 

[Kimo]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

Surely you jest. 

 

On occasion

[AudioDoctor]

2 hours ago, cjf said:

If I were literally starting from scratch today and wanted to build a satisfying system with as few components as possible, knowing what I know now (this is key), then I would buy an Active speaker setup for my main rig.

 

One reason being, unless I win the lottery, I couldn't afford to repurchase the level of system I have now at todays prices. So given this, I'm pretty sure I could spend 1/2 of what I have invested today in my passive setup on an Active setup and still walk away happy. Will it sound as good? Honestly, I do have my doubts but who knows. I'm half deaf by now anyway 🤣

 

With that said though, every time I see these I can feel a bead of sweat forming on my brow and my wallet running for the hills

 

 

There is zero chance my wife would let me put that in the family room.

[fas42]

1 hour ago, vinylvalet said:

Another one I've not heard but have read good things about are the Dutch & Dutch 8C actives.

 

Thumbs up from me about the 8Cs - at an audio show a few weeks back, these were the clear winners in the accuracy stakes. The bloke running them had set them up well, and was literally willing to play anything suggested by the audience, from the net ... never stumbled.

[firedog]

9 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’ve heard ATC at shows, but have never heard people talk about them as highly regarded. There is a mystique about them and a lot of hearsay. 
 

Kii makes some great active speakers. 

 

I've heard ATC. They are good, but to my taste not as good as some others.

Lots of people swear by Genelec, Kii, Dutch and Dutch, and Dynaudio, to name a few. Obviously for every speaker there will be people who don't like them. But each brand on that list has many listeners and critics who love them. 

 

[GregWormald]

For me which is better—passive or active—is really not the question. Both types can be excellent if designed and implemented well.

 

The advantage of actives is that (generally) the amps and the speakers have been designed specifically to work together. If that design and construction is excellent then the result will be excellent. This can result in a synergy that is hard to get when both speakers and amps have to be designed to work with (almost) everything else. Theoretically there are financial savings as well.

 

My last 2 sets have been active and have been "current drive" rather than "voltage drive". Neither have been cheap but both models receive rave reviews from users as well as satisfy me. 

 

The disadvantages of my current set are that they are both extremely heavy (130 kg a side) and expensive. As I wrote in my review elsewhere "They make fun out of sitting at home to avoid the [viral] zombies."

 

Sorry all, AFAIK they have not made it outside Australia.

[The Computer Audiophile]

17 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

For me which is better—passive or active—is really not the question. Both types can be excellent if designed and implemented well.

 

The advantage of actives is that (generally) the amps and the speakers have been designed specifically to work together. If that design and construction is excellent then the result will be excellent. This can result in a synergy that is hard to get when both speakers and amps have to be designed to work with (almost) everything else. Theoretically there are financial savings as well.

 

My last 2 sets have been active and have been "current drive" rather than "voltage drive". Neither have been cheap but both models receive rave reviews from users as well as satisfy me. 

 

The disadvantages of my current set are that they are both extremely heavy (130 kg a side) and expensive. As I wrote in my review elsewhere "They make fun out of sitting at home to avoid the [viral] zombies."

 

Sorry all, AFAIK they have not made it outside Australia.

Well said.