Pi 2 Design Mercury Streamer

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Ghettocowboy23 said:

Looks promising. Does it have a built in clock?

Of course!

All digital devices have multiple clocks.  This streamer has two nice NDK NZ2520SDA XOs at audio-sample-rate related frequencies (22.792Mhz and 24.576Mhz), plus a 24.0MHz clock for its USB hub chip, plus the RPi Compute 4 module has a clock for its processor.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Dynobot said:

I was on the waiting list for the Mercury.

Think I'm going to pass.

Excellent! Maybe that will bump me up a spot. 

[Superdad]

22 minutes ago, bobfa said:

The Tuesday Report 2-22-22.  I could wait until 2222 hours if you want?  

Yes it certainly is a tutu Twosday!  

[Superdad]

15 hours ago, sch8mid said:

If you work with Holo Audio spring or May please try the I2S connection.

I had no success with  Raspi 4  based streamers  (Silent audio Munich M1t)

https://www.silent-angel-audio.com/munich-m1t

The Holo audio Dacs (Spring and May) need 15 seconds to lock to the I2S input

and need 15 to relock , if you pause and change resolution.  Barely tolerable .

Even without change in the samplerate  the first seconds of every file dissapear in the locking Nirvana.

 

I have been running I2S from the Mercury to my Holo Spring L3 and do not experience the problem you report.  This with PiCorePlayer/LMS/SqueezeLite or Volumio.

[Superdad]

2 minutes ago, bobfa said:

At some point, I may get a chance to test with my friends May DAC, but my Mercury is with @Superdad right now.

Hi Bob:

I owe you a phone call (been busy with family matters and travel). Am going to make another round of tests with the Mercury today in my system. It’s warming up as I write this. 

—Alex C.

[Superdad]

1 minute ago, sch8mid said:

Ah - thanx - didn´t see it. Problem is :

With PLL disabled  I2S works with the Holo and without the 15 sec. locking problem .

PLL enabled the horror begins.

 

Sorry, I guess I don’t understand my Holo DAC.  What is the PLL mode you are referring to?  Are you talking about the OS (oversampling) mode?  I never use that mode as the built-in chip filter of the Spring does not sound good.  I use NOS mode only.

 

I am happy to test for you but need to understand what settings and just what you mean about “locking” problem.  Something about changing from sending PCM to then DSD and then back?

[Superdad]

16 minutes ago, sch8mid said:

Spring and May come with a PLL circuit  . Aktivated by default.

Its in the menu - and there you can disable ist.

 

Sorry but my original Holo Spring L3 (not Spring 2 or Spring 3) has no such menu item.

 

 

16 minutes ago, sch8mid said:

A phase-locked loop (PLL) is a feedback circuit designed...

 

Yes, I know what a PLL is... 

[Superdad]

33 minutes ago, bobfa said:

Can we bring this back on track?  Observations, questions, etc. One the device itself.  

 

Sure Bob.  I'm enjoying the heck out of mine (well, technically yours Bob--until I send you a check for it this week or next ).

 

So far I have tried a variety of permutations and comparisons.  When using the Mercury it is always I2S out direct to my Holo Spring L3 via a Pangea HDMI cable, powered by a prototype of an advanced new power supply we are working on.

 

I normally run a Pareto Audio(@lmitche) built AudioLinuxNUC as my Roon Core Server (and endpoint via optical USB--into a heavily modified by @scan80269Singxer SU-1 to I2S)--prior to using the Mercury as endpoint.

[When NUC is DDC-attached Server/Endpoint then it is on 'B' side of optically-fed/externally-clocked EtherREGEN; When Mercury is endpoint the NUC is moved to an 'A' side port and Mercury gets the 'B' port.  All this is VERY audible--especially when using my DSD64 copy of Nina Simone's very first album as remastered exquisitely to SACD by Ryan Smith. Been listening to this LP for 59 years--since I was 1 year old; crazy the sonic details in there besides just the timeless beauty of her performance.]

 

For OS I have so far tried Volumio, PiCorePlayer, Ropieee, and GentooPlayer.

I have tried LMS/SqueezeLite (best with LMS not run on Mercury, and better when LMS was run on the AudioLinux NUC than from my desktop controlling M1 MacBook Pro) and Roon.  

Until this morning the best SQ I got was with Ropieee running RoonBridge.  Then for a short time I had GentooPlayer (configured with system and RoonBridge loaded into RAM) running and was in heaven.  But then I started having problems with the Mercury even being seen on the network with GentooPlayer running (literally its IP address vanishes from my IP scanner utility).  

 

There are other things I plan to try when I get GentooPlayer stable--such as copying a couple of favorite discs to the microSD or RAM. And then later I might buy an M2 flash drive to load a portion of my library there.

 

Having fun with this high-value box! 

 

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, congofather said:

I tried RopieeeXL, VolumIO, DietPi, MoodeAudio and lastly my favorite one GentooPlayer with Mercury Streamer.

Hi:  I have followed some of your reports in the thread over on SBAF.  And @clipper (there and I think here) is a VERY good client of UpTone--and his praise for GentooPlayer is what prompted me to try it.

 

5 hours ago, congofather said:

GentooPlayer with RamSystem Mode=5 (almost everything is loaded into RAM)

Having settled on Roon (Forgot to mention above that I even compared sending Roon to SqueezeLite but preferred RoonBridge), I uninstalled from GentooPlayer all other apps and the WiFi stuff. I am running in Ramsystem Mode=6. So everything is in RAM--proven by my being able to remove the microSD card from the Mercury.

 

5 hours ago, congofather said:

,a  RealTime Kernel chosen(5.15.36-GentooPlayer-RT-MIN-NOGRAPH-EUPRCU-rt41+)

SystemInfo reports that I am running kernel 5.15.36-GentooPlayer-ST+.

Is that the realtime kernel?  If I go to SelectKernel the drop-down menu does not work or display any options.  What am I missing here?  (Does seem that on the web GentooPlayer has two completely different web pages for downloading--and their docs leave a bit to be desired.)

 

On the subject of kernel version: My friend @lmitche--a proponent of AudioLinux and builder of my little NUC--recently upgraded my AL to 5.17 and I recall him telling me that it was the first of the realtime kernels. (Might have been because my AL system was almost 2 years old and also I may have misunderstood.  I am a total Linux noob.)

But I do wonder if any of the RaspberryPi Linux kernel are yet on 5.17.

 

5 hours ago, congofather said:

,process optimizations made for LMS, Squeezelite-R2 under "System Expert-I" settings

and every process stopped/disabled (I connect to Mercury using SSH and be sure that everything is turned off) except LMS and SqueezeLite-R2 is one of the best solutions for Mercury in my opinion.

I would be VERY interested in what process tweaks you might offer for a GentooPlayer user using it on a Mercury strictly for RoonBridge.

And other things to check to be sure turned off/unloaded?

 

5 hours ago, congofather said:

Edit: I prefered caching the songs before playing and loaded them from a Synology NAS(with SSD drives) connected to a managed Ubiquiti switch in the same network with Mercury Streamer.

Ultimately I would like to be able to point Roon to some directory on Mercury/GentooPlayer (either the microSD card, RAM, or an M2 flash drive stick if I get one) to play copied over music files.  But I need to figure out how to set Gentoo to share (is Samba the same as SMB?) and what path to enter into Roon's network drive share watch list.

 

Sorry @bobfa if this post is a bit into the weeds.  

The Mercury is performing at a VERY high level! So much fun...

I need to call Michael Kelly to see if he will sell me an aluminum case for your/my acrylic beta box. But first I have to send you $$ for it.

[Superdad]

 

46 minutes ago, Riccitone said:

 

Were you saying that you’ve also tried simply running to your dac straight in without additional ddc conversion/cleanup?

Not quite sure of your question.  

Despite having installed into my original Holo Spring L3 the newer USB>I2S input board (not the more exotic one that is in the May and also available with Spring 3 Kitsune edition), the I2S input--driven by my heavily-modified Singxer SU-1 at least--is still MUCH more musical than the Spring's USB input.

So my use of the Mercury is to give me an Ethernet>I2S setup. Which eliminates my NUC>optical USB>SU-1>I2S chain.

 

The interesting thing is that it took landing on GentooPlayer before the Mercury (as Roon endpoint straight into my DAC) finally surpassed my carefully tweaked NUC (as both RoonServer and endpoint as described).

 

46 minutes ago, Riccitone said:

Will we be able to purchase - or carefully kit assemble - this wonderful power supply of which you speak? 🙃

Oh yes!  All our $$ and time have been poured into this new supply all year (which has been hard since the global chip shortage situation ground to a halt most all other UpTone sales other than JS-2s).  This thread is not the place nor the time for us to reveal any details about the new supply. But trust me we will and there will be a ton to talk about and explain--both in pictures and words.

 

I am excited because I am picking up @JohnSwenson from the Amtrak station tomorrow. He will be spending 5 nights at my house and we will be playing and testing all sorts of devices (including the newest near-beta board of the the aforementioned dual 2A/4A power supply, a couple of variants of Sonore ultraRendu, an opticalRendu, and an opticalModule Deluxe).  Plus we will be doing more strategizing on our development plans, BBQ-ing, stargazing, and maybe taking a trip into Yosemite National Park.  So happy to be seeing my dear friend in person again after too long.

[Will probably be mostly off the forum for the duration of his visit as there is so much to do.]

[Superdad]

6 hours ago, congofather said:

I shared some of my settings below that I used (the tweak and process settings). Every Gentooplayer user is recommended to find their optimum settings on their own by testing how they hear after making these changes. Therefore, I can not claim that these settings are the optimum settings for these processes etc. They are just my settings. You can try and see whether or not it works yourself.

Thank you very much for sharing all your tweaks in such a clear manner! Very helpful. I will experiment a bit as soon as I have time.

[Superdad]

8 hours ago, antonellocaroli said:

These are often problems that arise from the habits of assigning static IPs through the router...
I don't know if this is your case…

No, I do not have static IP address set.  But since yesterday I am not having anymore problems with the player being found. Hopefully it stays stable.

 

8 hours ago, antonellocaroli said:

PS: when using the ramsystem, but also when not using it, and you want to remove the sd-card (in the case of the ramsystem enabled) it is also a good thing to set 'SD-Card Polling' to disable (in TWK)... this prevents the system from regularly checking for the presence of the sd-card...

I’ll be sure to adjust that!

 

Also Antonella, you gave me a trial user key. Now that I know I wish to purchase a license, what is the procedure—for payment and installation?  Importantly, if there is a new license key, can that be loaded without my having to start all over—with optimizations, settings, tweaks?  It would be inconvenient to have to do so?

Is there some time limit on the trial key you gave me? Does it just stop working at some point?  This current week is a busy and important one for me (my engineer partner is visiting) so I hope GentooPlayer continue to work without incident for at least another 6 days.

 

Many thanks,

—Alex C.

 

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, lmitche said:

The difference with 5.17  is that is has a greatly enhanced TCP/IP stack that is much more efficient. This enhanced efficiency is audible.

Thank you for clearing that up Larry.  You know I have the memory of a goldfish… 

 

@antonellocaroli: Will GentooPlayer begin using 5.17 kernel soon? Is that even available for Pi distributions?

Indeed I recall an audible SQ improvement when Larry installed the 5.17 kernel for my AudioLinux NUC (though as the box running my RoonCore Server playing files from a shared network drive I expect the TCP/IP stack gets worked pretty heavily—perhaps more than through the little Mercury endpoint?

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, antonellocaroli said:

Hi, can you write an email for this info?

Sure.  In a couple of hours when I get to my desk.  It is very early here in California—and I’m still in bed! 

[Superdad]

7 hours ago, oneguy said:

Has anyone attempted AudioLinux on the Mercury? I received mine today and re-imaged the Micro SD card with AudioLinux and no joy. 

 

48 minutes ago, zackthedog said:

I don't know what you've tried, but if you want it up and running quick, Ropieee works great and is Roon-ready.  Or maybe you know that.

 

For Roon Bridge use, Ropiee is super easy, very reliable, and sounds quite good, but Gentooplayer with realtime kernel and all OS and player s/w loaded into RAMdisk (takes time) is the absolute bomb for Roon.  Mercury I2S powered by beta UpTone supply and fed from 'B' side of EtherREGEN > Holo Spring L3 has never sounded better.  I was happy to send @antonellocaroli my "donation" for his Linux package/scripts.

 

I am running AudioLinux/RoonCore on my @lmitche-built NUC, but since I'm not a Linux tweaker  and don't know all the ins-and-outs of AudioLinux I will for now assume that GentooPlayer with my tweaks is quite close. Still, I might at some point download the rPi version of AL and give it a go.

 

The other final test I want to try (now that all my other hardware and GentooPlayer are in place) is to run the Mercury as Squeezelite endpoint (with it RAM-loaded of course) and point Roon to that. Would like to know how that sounds versus RoonBridge.

 

BTW, I think the fact that Roon added support for the Squeeze protocol (how long ago did they do that?) is terrific--and it has implications for what devices can be built to be compatible with Roon.  I am surprised that RoonLabs did this as it (really for the benefit of all) opens up their ecosystem a bit. 

[Superdad]

59 minutes ago, congofather said:

Absolutely.. Roon Server on Euphony loaded to RAM on a seperate machine which communicates with RoonBridge on Mercury(using realtime kernel and ramdisk) is also very very good.

Yes, my RoonCore server on AudioLinux is RAMroot loaded also.

 

59 minutes ago, congofather said:

Which realtime kernel do you prefer :) ?

I'm just using the Kernel that you mentioned: 5.15.36-GentooPlayer-RT-MIN-NOGRAPH-EUPRCU-rt41+  Have not experimented with any of the dozen others. Who has the time?

 

59 minutes ago, congofather said:

And did you apply different tweaks other than the ones that I shared? If you find some other tweaks, I would be very happy and would like to try them if you share.

Not really.  I chose RAM Mode 6 (though GTP's System Info screen calls that Mode 9 for some reason; but there is no Mode 9!), and I uninstalled a bunch of the apps and wifi stuff not used. Have not even played with any of those Affinity or NiceLevel tweaks for RoonBridge. Again, not much time and I am always looking for the "big wow" changes.

 

Thanks again for your guidance and enthusiasm.

[Superdad]

@congofather and @zackthedog are right: GentooPlayer (once real-time kernel is chosen and whole system loaded into RAM) sounds noticeably better with the Mercury streamer than any other OS I have tried. Crazy the difference it makes and while there are several quite plausible explanations, in the end what matters is enjoying the music. 

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, Powerman said:

That's all good to know. So yes I see it mentioned... And I am asking about Mercury... what is the deal with Ramdisk? Is it worth it, and why? Is the 4GB in the Mercury enough to be worth it?

 

 

Yes RAMdisk is highly worthwhile, even in my 4GB Mercury.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Powerman said:

Just have to figure out  roon playing the nvme.

Since the Roon Core has to be on another machine on the network, using Roon to play files stored on a drive in the Mercury is not beneficial since Roon Core has to fetch the files from the drive—and then send them back to the Mercury to be played (by either RoonBridge or Sqeezelite).  You are doubling the network traffic out and in of the Mercury.

 

The internal storage only makes sense to use if either the entire server/endpoint is on the Mercury (e.g. LMS/Squeezlite, but I personally don’t like the SQ of LMS on the Mercury—and I am not alone in that), or if the architecture of the s/w is such that the endpoint directly retrieves the tracks.

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

Hello, the Mercury streamer is always limited to pcm only and maxed out at 24/192, and no dsd. 

Why do you say that?  I send DSD64 to my Mercury all the time and it outputs it over I2S to my DAC.  (“DoP”—DSD over PCM—is required but that’s still real DSD.)

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, sch8mid said:

No. My mercury sends no DSD to my Holo Dac over I2S  .

Volumio 3 shows DSD64  or DSD 128 but HOLo Audio DAC indicates :  This is a PCM stream (192 KHz).

This is with DSD direct and DoP  DSD over PCM.

Well I too am using a Holo DAC (original Spring L3) and like I said have no trouble having it show DSD on its I2S input from my Mercury. 
Right now I am running GentooPlayer as OS, but I have played DSD through Mercury with Ropieee, PiCorePlayer, and Volumio. And I am sure I am not the only one. Keep trying! 

[Superdad]

40 minutes ago, sch8mid said:

You may look at this thread  (Topping issues with I2S)

That’s a completely different issue having to do with Topping’s I2S pin assignments versus Mercury. That person was having trouble even getting PCM to work.
No relationship to doing DSD (set to DoP) from I2S of Mercury into a DSD DAC—in my case Holo Spring L3 working perfectly.  I now run GentooPlayer (superior sound—with real-time kernel and everything loaded into RAM) but I think I still have a microSD card with Volumio on it. Maybe if I have time this week I’ll boot that and run DSD (over DoP) and take a picture for you.

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

It’s quite strange that Michael Kelly keeps the “secret” about which overlay should be used to enable DSD/DoP

 

HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro must be chosen in ALL instances for the Mercury.  The setting of DoP is separate in each operating system.

[Superdad]

17 hours ago, sch8mid said:

This is all about I2S , that doesnt work with DSD and Mercury til we get "Superdads solution."

 

With USB :  256 DSD  and DSD direct  is no problem with Mercury and the Holo audio DAC. No DoP needed,

 

But bear with me . I bought the Mercury because of I2S and I have a lot of DSD 64 and 128 files .

 

As @stefano_mbp pointed out, DSD128 will never be possible with Mercury. (I do not even have any DSD128 files, just SACD rips.)

But DSD64 (over DoP) from I2S is just fine. No special "solution" needed.

 

5 hours ago, sch8mid said:

This is , what I said.

With my  Mercury

There is no DSD direct over I2S .

There is no Dop over I2S.

Its all converted to 192Khz.

_______

Soon Superdads solution is comin ( experimental Linux Kernel ?? :-) )

 

Nothing experimental. Just RoonBridge or Squeezelite running on Mercury under choice of OS (GentooPlayer, Ropieee, PiCorePlayer). I can not recall what I was doing with Volumio but if it is still on the microSD card I just tried to boot then I'll see if I can get DSD (over DoP) running there too.

 

I do not recall what music player software you are using with Volumio. Perhaps the issue is there. 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, sch8mid said:

No

There is no DSD 64 .

 

Sorry, I do not know what to tell you.  I play DSD64 (over DoP) every day on my Mercury to I2S.

Best of luck,

ALEX