HQplayer 4 and Mac-mini M1

[AudioDoctor]

It seems odd that upsampling to DSD would require less ram, but that seems to be the case.

 

I almost never use the desktop HQP on my Mac mini, as I have a dedicated machine running Ubuntu server for that, but this is an interesting result.

[MikePid]

Ahh, that's more like it!  I've never used PCM output on my MMM1.

[Miska]

Note that for example above in two nearly similar cases, the memory usage is different because one has 44.1k source to 44.1k x256 output. While the other one is 96k to 44.1k x256 output, which will consume more RAM.

 

Filter choice and conversion ratio have impact on the RAM usage. And to some extent things like running EC modulators. Then also convolution can get memory hungry, especially if you do something like DSD256 -> DSD512 with large convolution filters (well, not going to work on M1 anyway).

 

[MikePid]

I just ran a test and 96k>44x256 uses only about 5% more memory than 44k source on my MMM1.  Filter is slightly different (gauss-long for Nx vs xla for 1x). I also tried DSD128>DSD256 and that finally shows more memory: 1.1GB vs. 0.3GB.  DSD64>DSD256 is 850MB.  All with 7ECv2.  No convolution though.

 

Interestingly, memory use switching back to 44k>44x256 after DSD>DSD didn't free up all the memory, and is now using 100MB more than it normally does, but still only just over 400MB.

[AudioDoctor]

39 minutes ago, Miska said:

Note that for example above in two nearly similar cases, the memory usage is different because one has 44.1k source to 44.1k x256 output. While the other one is 96k to 44.1k x256 output, which will consume more RAM.

 

Filter choice and conversion ratio have impact on the RAM usage. And to some extent things like running EC modulators. Then also convolution can get memory hungry, especially if you do something like DSD256 -> DSD512 with large convolution filters (well, not going to work on M1 anyway).

 

 

Why does 44.1 to 176.4 PCM > PCM use exponentially more RAM?

[AudioDoctor]

2 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

Here I am listening to public radio and upsampling it to only 176.4. If I had to guess I would guess that it has to do with the filters we have chosen.

 

 

 

@Miska This is the result we were comparing to. 3.00GB of ram for a PCM to PCM conversion, versus a few hundred MB of usage for PCM > DSD conversion.

[Miska]

12 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

@Miska This is the result we were comparing to. 3.00GB of ram for a PCM to PCM conversion, versus a few hundred MB of usage for PCM > DSD conversion.

 

Yeah, but you have different filters selected. You are comparing apples to oranges if many settings are different...

 

[AudioDoctor]

4 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yeah, but you have different filters selected. You are comparing apples to oranges if many settings are different...

 

 

Ok I will try PCM to PCM with the same filters and see what I get.

 

edit: It dropped to 2.90GB

 

 

[SKR]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:02 PM, Louisiana said:

 

Hi,

of course it depends on how high you want upsampling.

DSD 512 is possible with certain filters.

The "most popular" combo, Poly Sync Ext 2, ASDM7ECV2 and DSD256 works wonderfully.

I also have the HQPlayer running on a Mac Mini M1, and am very satisfied.

For me it currently runs like this,  and as you can see from the CPU usage, the MAC is already quite busy with this.🙂

 

 

 

Hi Louisiana,

as per your advice I got the Mac Mini M1  yesterday. Also I paid and purchased HQPlayer 4 Desktop by using coupon code ( as I was using HQP 3 in past).

I got a mail giving me License Key which looks very peculiar.

Now I need your help to get it registered on my M1.

I have already downloaded the HQPlayer from their website.

When I go to HELP — REGISTER than I don’t find any window for putting the License key.

please help me out to start using HQP

thanks

[MikePid]

31 minutes ago, SKR said:

Hi Louisiana,

as per your advice I got the Mac Mini M1  yesterday. Also I paid and purchased HQPlayer 4 Desktop by using coupon code ( as I was using HQP 3 in past).

I got a mail giving me License Key which looks very peculiar.

Now I need your help to get it registered on my M1.

I have already downloaded the HQPlayer from their website.

When I go to HELP — REGISTER than I don’t find any window for putting the License key.

please help me out to start using HQP

thanks

Not Louisiana, but look at section 10 of the HQPlayer manual.  The registration is a file, not just a number.  Save the file attached to the email.

 

After purchasing a license key file will be provided. Store this file in a safe place. This file can be installed by selecting “Register...” from the “Help” menu. Standard file open dialog will appear asking to locate and select the license key file. Once the license key file has been successfully installed, restart HQPlayer for the license to fully take effect.

 

Congratulations on joining the MMM1 club!

[SKR]

OK Now that I have HQP and Mac Mini M1 , I want to know if I can connect HQP to my system. I have a Roon Nucleus with 2 TB SSD and streaming Tidal. 
Roon in connected to SOTM streamer on the net work via Ethernet . SOTM feeding the DAC via USB cable.

HQP is on my Mac Mini M1 which is also connected on same net work via Ethernet cable.

Now is it possible to connect HQP to SOTM using NAA or I will have to disconnect Roon first from SOTM.

Other option could be to load Roon software on my Mac mini.

Will appreciate advice on the best way to connect and if at all it is possible.

[FooFighter]

12 minutes ago, SKR said:

OK Now that I have HQP and Mac Mini M1 , I want to know if I can connect HQP to my system. I have a Roon Nucleus with 2 TB SSD and streaming Tidal. 
Roon in connected to SOTM streamer on the net work via Ethernet . SOTM feeding the DAC via USB cable.

HQP is on my Mac Mini M1 which is also connected on same net work via Ethernet cable.

Now is it possible to connect HQP to SOTM using NAA or I will have to disconnect Roon first from SOTM.

Other option could be to load Roon software on my Mac mini.

Will appreciate advice on the best way to connect and if at all it is possible.

HQplayer can only communicate via NAA protocol.

So you can use your Streamer alternatively only as a Roon Endpoint or play through Roon to HQPlayer which is forwarding the stream to the NAA.

You can then switch in Roon between both modes back and forth.

Don't know if your Streamer can simultaneously work in both modes or needs to be rebooted for each mode exclusively but from Roon point of view it's as I wrote.

In regards to the question where to run what the general recommendation is to keep each service like Roon, HQPlayer and endpoints separate so that there's no interference and system ressources are dedicated for the according job.

So it's good to have Roon Core separated and HQPlayer too as well as your Streamer.

[stefano_mbp]

29 minutes ago, FooFighter said:

Don't know if your Streamer can simultaneously work in both modes or needs to be rebooted for each mode exclusively but from Roon point of view it's as I wrote.

@SKR You need to enable NAA service or Roon bridge service, they cannot be enabled at the same time

[SKR]

My entire music is on Roon Nucleus 2TB SSD or Tidal logged in Roon Nucleus.

So I will have to use Roon to get my music files.

All three Roon Nucleus, SOTM and Mac Mini are connected on same network via Ethernet.

Can I connect HQPlayer to Roon Nucleus directly ignoring the SOTM. If so how ?
I don’t think my streamer SOTM can work directly with both.

[FooFighter]

3 minutes ago, SKR said:

My entire music is in Roon Nucleus 2TB SSD or Tidal logged in Roon Nucleus.

So I will have to use Roon to get my music files.

All three Roon Nucleus, SOTM and Mac Mini are connected on same network via Ethernet.

Can I connect HQPlayer to Roon Nucleus directly ignoring the SOTM. If so how ?
I don’t think my streamer SOTM can work directly with both.

Mac Mini should run the HQPlayer Desktop 4 software.

If you don't want to switch your streamer between both Roon Endpoint and NAA mode you could

a) plug your Mac Mini directly into your DAC (need to unplug your Streamer for that or need to use a USB switch or need to run your old Streamer via COAX or optical into your DAC while Mac Mini is connected via USB)

b) get an additional NAA endpoint like UP GATEWAY or Fitlet2 as suggested in this forum and also need to decide about the multiple connections from your old and new Streamer into the DAC 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, SKR said:

My entire music is on Roon Nucleus 2TB SSD or Tidal logged in Roon Nucleus.

So I will have to use Roon to get my music files.

All three Roon Nucleus, SOTM and Mac Mini are connected on same network via Ethernet.

Can I connect HQPlayer to Roon Nucleus directly ignoring the SOTM. If so how ?
I don’t think my streamer SOTM can work directly with both.

 

1. Set your SMS-200 to HQPlayer NAA mode.
2. In Roon Settings -> Audio use "Add HQPlayer" button and give IP of your Mac MIni.
3. In HQPlayer, select Network Audio backend and your DAC should appear under device selection, select your DAC.
4. Press down the "Allow network control" button in HQPlayer toolbar (right-most button)
5. Select HQPlayer zone in Roon
6. Play music

Official Roon documentation here:

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/hqplayer

 

HQPlayer comes with a PDF manual, so you may want to take a look there.

 

[AudioDoctor]

On 1/30/2022 at 7:50 PM, AudioDoctor said:

 

Ok I will try PCM to PCM with the same filters and see what I get.

 

edit: It dropped to 2.90GB

 

 

 

Miska, I still am curious to know why PCM > PCM uses 3+GB of RAM while PCM > DSD uses less than 500 MB of RAM?

 

edit: In fact, I opened HQP desktop and before doing anything at all, and without playing any music, it was using 2.88GB of RAM.

[Miska]

5 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

Miska, I still am curious to know why PCM > PCM uses 3+GB of RAM while PCM > DSD uses less than 500 MB of RAM?

 

edit: In fact, I opened HQP desktop and before doing anything at all, and without playing any music, it was using 2.88GB of RAM.

 

Also make sure you are using same playlist/queue/album content when comparing...

 

[MikePid]

Here is a summary of the exciting journey I have been on since I loaded HQPlayer onto my newly purchased MMM1 at the beginning of June. 

- Back then, I was able to do 44k>DSD256/5EC and ext2 for 1x, which seemed like the holy grail

- Then I switched from ext2 to poly-sinc-gauss-xla (1x) - OMG!

- Then ECv2 came along, and even though I had to drop down to poly-sinc-guass-long for 1x, it was worth it - OMG!

- Then Jussi did some optimizations and 44k>DSD256/ECv2/xla for 1x was enabled - OMG!

- Then @Schafheide sent me down the rabbit hole making me aware of a TeraDak LPS kit for the MMM1, so took a chance on it - OMG!

- Then I swapped out the LPS's stock fuse with an old HiFi Tuning Gold I picked up for something else a couple of years ago for $10 - OMG!

- Based on the positive results with that fuse, I sprung for a new Orange fuse - OMG!  And the fuse has only been burning in for 24 hours so far.

 

The MMM1 with LPS and Orange fuse makes @Miska's amazing work really shine!  Listening to the music has never been more enjoyable! 😃

[pavi]

11 hours ago, MikePid said:

Here is a summary of the exciting journey I have been on since I loaded HQPlayer onto my newly purchased MMM1 at the beginning of June. 

 

there is such genuine fun in each step of the journey, isn't there? right now I feel like I've optimized all that I possibly can atm, and am feeling both happiness and a sense of loss.

[sworksone]

On 2/11/2022 at 9:47 PM, MikePid said:

- Then Jussi did some optimizations and 44k>DSD256/ECv2/xla for 1x was enabled - OMG!

I can’t get this to play properly on my MM1.  I can use ext2 with ASDM7ECv2 at DSD256 (which sounds amazing), but xla won’t work at ASDM5ECv2 or ASDM5EC without frequent stutters.  I have everything turned off on the MM1 I can think of.  I don’t know if it matters, but I’m usb direct out to the DAC.  Are you using an NAA or do you have any other ideas on settings?  

[Miska]

27 minutes ago, sworksone said:

I can’t get this to play properly on my MM1.  I can use ext2 with ASDM7ECv2 at DSD256 (which sounds amazing), but xla won’t work at ASDM5ECv2 or ASDM5EC without frequent stutters.  I have everything turned off on the MM1 I can think of.  I don’t know if it matters, but I’m usb direct out to the DAC.  Are you using an NAA or do you have any other ideas on settings?  

 

Are you both running same source rate? In my case, I have output to directly connected RME ADI-2 Pro that can also do 48k-base DSD correctly.

 

[MikePid]

My DAC doesn't like 48k so I'm 44x256 for output.  I don't have any 48k source.  For Nx, I use gauss-long, and that handles 96k source easily, even with the rate conversion.

[sworksone]

44 here as well.  I use ext2 for Nx and no issues with 7ECv2.

[camott]

Though I haven't tested it on 4.16.2, I was having dropouts with guass-xla 48k -> 44xDSD256 or 48xDSD256 on recent HQP revisions. (44k source is ok). Only the very first revision of 4.15.0, with the new core allocation model, worked completely without issue. Since then the load is lower overall, but is not distributed quite as evenly across all 4+4 cores. This has been discussed elsewhere ... https://community.roonlabs.com/t/which-hqp-filter-are-you-using/6061/2171. I don't know if @Miska can change the cpu allocation heuristic for just the MM M1 back to what it was in 4.15.0. 🥺