exaSound E68 Stereo DSD512 and 8-Channel DSD256 DAC

[fatihakin]

2 hours ago, le-penseur said:

 

Same thing (no sound output).  I did try many variations of the settings, including setting "Audio -> Format" to DSF, and also trying with "Advanced -> Bitstream DSD" ON or OFF.  All resulted in no sound.  BTW, even with Format set to DSF, the s88 still showed that it was receiving 176.4 kHz PCM . . .

 

Thanks for your reply.  Please note that I'm no longer gated by this issue: as my digital music collection fits on a couple of 5 TB portable USB drives, since posting this Q, I tried using the s88's built-in UPnP audio library server/renderer by attaching my music as local storage to the s88, and was able to get flawless playback of most formats I have (still trying them out), including DSD stereo/multi-channel, with the Linn Kazoo app, so I'm really happy!  The s88 is reporting the correct format/sampling rate in each case so far.

 

So, to me, whether I can ultimately stream DSD to the s88 using JRiver from my PC has become more of an academic issue.

 

I use MC28 with PlayPoint (i.e., not S88), but the following should work:

DLNA configuration is accessed as below, and not from Options > Audio.

• Options > Media Network > Add or configure DLNA servers
• Select the relevant DLNA server (DLNA Server should be associated with S88 *)
• Audio > Mode: Original (i.e., not "specified format", so both PCM and DSF should go without conversion) (only if you want to convert or upsample everything to DSD than you can specify a format and configure Advanced > DSP Studio...)

(*) this association should be right clicking S88 on the right hand side menu (I'm guessing since I'm not at home near my configuration now)

 

[Kal Rubinson]

10 hours ago, le-penseur said:

Has anyone successfully streamed DSD (DSF files) to the s88 using JRiver's "DSD over DLNA" setup?  I know that Kal Rubinson mentioned in his Stereophile review that he had used JRiver to stream to the s88 using UPnP, but I don't know whether that had included DSD.

Memory tells me that I was successful in sending DSD via UPnP but I cannot confirm that or repeat that now because my s88 is boxed up for sending to exaSound for upgrade.

[Desertpilot]

Happy New Year everyone!

 

I am planning on building a new music server.  All of my music is on an external SSD hard drive (files are DSD, PCM, DXD, stereo and mostly surround).   I am currently using my laptop (Core i9, 9th gen) as my music server.  I am using the laptop's USB output to feed my S88.  I use JRiver and ROON as my music players.  No DSP except speaker distance corrections.  Music plays just fine. 

 

I've done a fair bit of research to determine the parts I will need.  But, given that I own the S88 with all its magic capabilities to take digital data via USB and make sure it is "bit perfect", do I need to overbuild my new server?  Apparently, a great many music server enthusiasts install a JCAT USB card (very expensive) with a separate linear power supply (again, very expensive) to feed their DACs with a "perfect" data stream.  Is this really necessary?

 

What is your experience?  A quality computer build is important, I get that.  I might even be convinced to use a linear power supply for the motherboard and CPU to reduce noise.  But a separate USB card seems excessive to feed data to the S88.

 

Thanks, Marcus

[ted_b]

I'll be unpacking and setting up my s88 FINALLY here soon (long time e28 user and dear friend of George's), but I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why anyone would use USB when the s88 has a clean ethernet input.  I may be missing something obvious.  My use will be to have the s88 as my HQPlayer NAA/dac combo for multichannel files.

[Kal Rubinson]

59 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I'll be unpacking and setting up my s88 FINALLY here soon (long time e28 user and dear friend of George's), but I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why anyone would use USB when the s88 has a clean ethernet input.  I may be missing something obvious.  My use will be to have the s88 as my HQPlayer NAA/dac combo for multichannel files.

If you are using Roon and HQP, probably not.

[Desertpilot]

3 hours ago, ted_b said:

I'll be unpacking and setting up my s88 FINALLY here soon (long time e28 user and dear friend of George's), but I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why anyone would use USB when the s88 has a clean ethernet input.  I may be missing something obvious.  My use will be to have the s88 as my HQPlayer NAA/dac combo for multichannel files.

Thanks.  I have never used the LAN feature.  I should try it.  You sound pretty certain LAN is the better way to go.

[Steve Bruzonsky]

When I bought my s88 Jan 2021, I first talked to George, told him I am using ROON, and he emphasized in my case I definitely want to have hardwired ethernet and this would be best sonically as opposed to using USB. At least for ROON.

[ted_b]

In both our cases (Steve with Roon, me with HQPlayer) we are able to use the s88 as BOTH our networked endpoint (Roon endpoint, HQPlayer NAA) and our multichannel dac...so Ethernet is not only the best option but anything else would be unnecessary overhead and chances for added noise and distortion.  

[Kal Rubinson]

14 minutes ago, ted_b said:

In both our cases (Steve with Roon, me with HQPlayer) we are able to use the s88 as BOTH our networked endpoint (Roon endpoint, HQPlayer NAA) and our multichannel dac...so Ethernet is not only the best option but anything else would be unnecessary overhead and chances for added noise and distortion.  

That's debatable.  USB input goes directly to the DAC of the s88 while ethernet goes to the embedded PC for processing (as Roon endpoint, HQPlayer NAA) before sending it on to the DAC.  So, the ethernet route does add overhead and more chances for adding noise and distortion.  Whether one has to pay a price as a result depends on other factors, particularly about the efficiency and effectiveness of this process with Roon/HQP compared to how they handle the USB route.

[ted_b]

Kal,

You bring up a good point that I'll test in my system (once setup and familiar of course).  I can swap the USB from the Holo May (coming from fitelt2 NAA) and compare that to internal NAA.  There are more than a couple variables in that comparison but I'll give it a go nonetheless.   Stay tuned.  :)

Ted

[Desertpilot]

I primarily use JRiver and send files via USB to the S88 (using the exaSound ASIO driver, of course).  It works, for me, perfectly well.  I have ROON and use it occasionally, especially if I want to listen to QOBUZ.  ROON's recent update has improved it (processing is now stable with no audio dropouts).  Roon also sends files via USB to the S88.  I have speaker distance corrections incorporated for both JRiver and for ROON.  Both players handle it with no issues.  No other DSP.  I use an Android pad to control either JRiver or ROON/Qobuz from my MLP.

 

For me, everything is working so I am reluctant to make changes.  Personally, I love music reproduction on my system.  I was just curious, as I contemplate building a new music server, about the value of an upgraded USB port.  I can always add it later so I am likely to go with  the motherboard USB port.

 

An interesting discussion.  Thank you.

 

Marcus

[ted_b]

Marcus,

I would be interested in you trying the s88 as a Roon endpoint (i.e connect via LAN and point Roon core to it).  It would be an interesting exercise to hear whether USB from Roon machine sounds any different than the s88 getting it's Roon instructions internally as a Roon endpoint.

[Kal Rubinson]

6 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I would be interested in you trying the s88 as a Roon endpoint (i.e connect via LAN and point Roon core to it).

 

19 hours ago, ted_b said:

There are more than a couple variables in that comparison but I'll give it a go nonetheless.   Stay tuned.  :)

There's also the potential difference between wired ethernet and WiFi. 🤐

[Desertpilot]

4 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

 

There's also the potential difference between wired ethernet and WiFi. 🤐

 

For me, everything is wired ethernet.

[Desertpilot]

4 hours ago, ted_b said:

Marcus,

I would be interested in you trying the s88 as a Roon endpoint (i.e connect via LAN and point Roon core to it).  It would be an interesting exercise to hear whether USB from Roon machine sounds any different than the s88 getting it's Roon instructions internally as a Roon endpoint.

 

I've never tried this approach.  If I do this, I assume I would still use ROON on my music server to play music.  I'll give it a try maybe tomorrow.

[ted_b]

Yes, once you hook the s88 to your network Roon should see it as an endpoint, so go into Roon and make it your audio device.

[Desertpilot]

I finally got to test out LAN input to my S88.  I switched from USB to LAN and using ROON selected the DAC endpoint (different from the S88 USB).  It worked just fine.  I played a variety of multichannel music (PCM/DXD/DSD) and walked over the the DAC's lcd screen.  It showed the proper file format and 8 channel.

 

-- I could not tell a sonic difference but I will continue to switch back and forth for further listening tests.

-- A nice feature is that using my Android pad, logged in to the S88 and selecting LAN configuration, I could adjust not only overall volume but channel trims.

-- I could leave the USB cable plugged in and simply switch inputs on the S88 page and switching the ROON endpoint.  Very easy to do.

 

I did check out several discussions about this on various forums, including the ROON community.  As is normal in discussion groups there are lovers and haters of each connection method.  So not much help from users.  This was an interesting exercise.

 

Marcus

[Desertpilot]

Today, I tested out the headset jack.  Works fine.  It did not cut out my speakers so I simply switched my Coleman switcher to an unused input.  Speakers went out and headset still engaged.  Music selection and volume control on my pad worked just fine over the headsets.  Personally, I am not a headset person but I did want to test it out.

 

I've concluded that USB out from my server to the S88 is preferred over the LAN configuration.

 

Thanks Marcus

[SMSWAP]

I have been following the latest discussion for a while. Interesting to note, that the USB and LAN doesn't make any difference in your setup.

 

Have you also tried a direct LAN connection? Using a 2nd Ethernet card/ adapter in the server you may want to connect with static IPs directly into your s88. 

 

Any thoughts or experience on this?

[Kal Rubinson]

2 hours ago, SMSWAP said:

I have been following the latest discussion for a while. Interesting to note, that the USB and LAN doesn't make any difference in your setup.

 

Have you also tried a direct LAN connection? Using a 2nd Ethernet card/ adapter in the server you may want to connect with static IPs directly into your s88. 

 

Any thoughts or experience on this?

Yes.  It makes no difference.

[SMSWAP]

Hi Kal, thanks for the quick reply.

 

Have you ever checked audio performance with all ado devices connected to a separate Ethernet switch (used for Ravenna or Dante) configured for audio only? 

 

Regards, Ralf

[Kal Rubinson]

4 hours ago, SMSWAP said:

Hi Kal, thanks for the quick reply.

 

Have you ever checked audio performance with all ado devices connected to a separate Ethernet switch (used for Ravenna or Dante) configured for audio only? 

 

Regards, Ralf

I cannot isolate my remotely located NAS (where all the files are) along with my local streamer/player/DAC to a single switch separate from other domestic services.

 

My comment was based on having the streamer/player connected to the NAS and the rest of the world via one Ethernet port and connected exclusively and directly to the S88 (and, earlier, to a NADAC+) via another Ethernet port.

[R1200CL]

I think vlan can do the trick. 

[Kal Rubinson]

2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

I think vlan can do the trick. 

Sure but ain't that just a logical, rather than a physical, separation?

[SMSWAP]

Let's clarify it. This isn't a discussion about snake oil requiring you to purchase a 2kUSD Ethernet switch.

 

Routing audio via Ethernet is common in the pro world. Based on the nature of audio (=stream) and the fact that many of the audio over Ethernet protocols use PTPv2 timing general purpose switches may not do the trick. The pro guys have then started using high quality managed switches (such as those from Cisco) to configure them differently. See the Merging Technologies website for some sample configurations.

 

Physical separation is done inside the s88. Alternative: Use high quality medial Ethernet galvanic isolators.

 

Routing audio traffic in a separate network (with static IP) does the trick. Of course, it does require your NAS or server having at least two Ethernet ports (You may also use a USB/ Ethernet adapter instead). On is connected to your Internet general purpose switch and the other one to the audio only network.

 

By doing so, it keeps any noise away from the audio part.