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exaSound E68 Stereo DSD512 and 8-Channel DSD256 DAC


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4 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Same reason as Roon as a front end. JRIver is a great library manager and has nice remote control capabilities, etc. and HQPlayer is the state of the art for the back end. 

 

What is wrong with the current HQPlayer front ends, such as HQPlayer Client (bundled with HQPlayer Desktop, but works also with HQPlayer Embedded), HQPDcontrol and HQPWV?

 

Many times when people talk about this they have not actually tried to use HQPlayer's library in first place.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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1 hour ago, Miska said:

It is a bit like asking how many bits your brain uses when calculating 1 + 1.

I didn't write the program for that.  

1 hour ago, Miska said:

As you can imagine, I'm not going to describe in details how the implementation exactly works inside.

Fair enough.🤐

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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Geoffrey did a nice job but it is still slightly contortion-istic.  :)  But it works. 

 

Jussi, there is nothing wrong with those front ends, including yours.  But they are not as robust as Roon or JRiver when it comes to library management, bulk tagging and editing, remote control (client GUI) and the like.  I applaud all front ends to HQplayer, it's just that we'd like to add a more seamless JRiver to the mix.  Not a stay awake issue though, at least for me.

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7 hours ago, ted_b said:

when it comes to library management, bulk tagging and editing

 

This doesn't need to have anything to do with the player and selecting music for playback. Just like you can edit tags with Mp3Tag. As far as I can tell, there's really nothing much in Roon about "library management".

 

Quote

remote control (client GUI)

 

Why not? What is missing?

 

Quote

it's just that we'd like to add a more seamless JRiver to the mix.

 

You can of course ask Jriver to implement similar support for controlling HQPlayer as Roon has done.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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2 hours ago, Miska said:

You can of course ask Jriver to implement similar support for controlling HQPlayer as Roon has done.

I was not blaming you for this situation; I was merely lamenting it.  Looking at the Jriver YABB, one can find many such requests but they are unwilling to so.  

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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JRiver doesn't support JPlay either for the same reason, JRiver considers both HQ Player and Jplay as rivals.

I used JRiver in the past but switched to Audirvana.
 

When I get my new DSD 1024 capable DAC I will probably use HQ Player for upsampling.

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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This conversation comes at the right time for me.  I've been looking at HQ Player as it is well thought of here in the forum.  I use JRiver to write tags.  These tags are written directly to the music file.  When I bring up ROON, all these tags are there.  I would hope HQ Player picks up these tags as well.  ROON also lets me open the accompanying pdf liner notes, plus some other features I enjoy.  But, ROON is problematic.  I am using a Core i9 laptop as music server.  I switched to an SSD to hold my music files.  I have optimized my computer as best I can.  Yet, ROON has the occasional drop out at lower resolutions and literally stops play at higher resolutions.  I am not alone with this ROON problem.  I am using JRiver now for everything (no dropouts at any resolution).

 

I do want to incorporate DSP (including speaker distance room correction for both PCM and DSD).  I will probably try HQ Player trial version.  I do not need to up sample or down sample.  I do want the player to play PCM up to DXD and DSD up to 256 without coughing or sputtering.  Multichannel music through the S88 is fantastic.  It  is so good, I sometimes want to leave it alone.  But, I cannot arrange all five speakers to be equidistant from the MLP and I'm sure there are a few other "room" interactions issues that I would want to resolve.

 

Let's see how it goes with HQ Player.

 

Marcus

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  • 1 month later...

Now that I own the S88, I can play just about every bit & sample rate.  Up until now, I generally download the original recording format.  However, Native DSD, TRPTK and Sound Liaison all offer multiple bit & sample rates.  From what I understand, the S88 should convert DSD to analog better than DXD/PCM.  True?

 

My latest music purchase is Maestro Honeck's Brahms Symphony #4.  Soundmirror recorded the orchestra in DSD256 but post produced it in 32/352.8 DXD (post production in DXD is pretty much becoming a standard these days).  I own the DSD256 version.  This particular recording, especially in 5.0 multichannel, really deserves high resolution playback.  I'm thrilled I have the equipment to do this.  But, if given the choice, using the S88, what would you buy, the original recording format DSD256 or the post production master in DXD?

 

Marcus

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1 hour ago, Desertpilot said:

But, if given the choice, using the S88, what would you buy, the original recording format DSD256 or the post production master in DXD?

Even if the original recording was DSD256, you have to ask yourself  (or them) how much of the original recording you are buying when you download in DSD256.  Any (post)production processing is likely to have been done in DXD.  😉

 

OTOH, you also have to ask yourself:  Do you really think you will hear a difference?

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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5 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

OTOH, you also have to ask yourself:  Do you really think you will hear a difference?

 

Kal, this is indeed the most important question for any audiophile.  Your implication is that my question is more academic than reality.  The Bit/Sample rate debate rages on with no winners.  Brendon at TRPTK says "No".  DXD is critical for recording/mastering but for listeners, CD or DSD64 quality is typically sufficient.  I upgraded my gear so I guess I want to feed it the best quality source material.

 

I guess the real answer is the analog signal from the S88 to my amplifier.  In other words, if the DSD 64 or DSD 256 or DXD 32/352.8 files are all of equal quality going in to the S88 then the analog signal coming out of the S88 would be identical.

 

Marcus

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Even in retirement, I don't have time to swat at gnats (LOL).  I will continue to download the original recording format or the DXD post production master.  I just downloaded the Honeck Brahms #4 album in DXD so I can make a/b comparisons.  I probably can not tell the difference.  But, heck, this is my hobby so I might as well do this test.

 

Kal, thank you for your time and sharing your expertise.

 

Marcus

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  • 2 weeks later...

Channel Volume Controls

 

Hi Folks.  Now that I am using the Coleman Switcher and running the S88 direct to my amp, I'd like to ask how you set the channel trims.  What I've done.  I set the master volume control to 0 (max volume).  I used a dB meter (set to C weighted and Slow) and set the pink noise volume to 85 dB across each individual speaker.

 

Do you do it differently?

 

Thanks, Marcus

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/19/2021 at 4:08 PM, Desertpilot said:

Channel Volume Controls

 

Hi Folks.  Now that I am using the Coleman Switcher and running the S88 direct to my amp, I'd like to ask how you set the channel trims.  What I've done.  I set the master volume control to 0 (max volume).  I used a dB meter (set to C weighted and Slow) and set the pink noise volume to 85 dB across each individual speaker.

 

Do you do it differently?

 

Thanks, Marcus

I do it the same, except I set pink noise volume to 75 dB.

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Black Friday Exasound deals include:

 

exaSound Black Friday Sale 2021 > exaSound Audio Design

 

BLACK FRIDAY - S88 MARK II STREAMING DAC - SAVE $ 500

Just Released next generation of our Stereophile Class A+Device
Reference Grade 8-Channel DAC/Streamer/Headphone Amplifier
• New Output Stages • Tidal Connect support • New Audio Optimization Settings
• New Bluetooth Audio Streaming support • New Reconstruction Filter Settings
8-Channel DSD256 and Stereo DSD512

S88 Mark II Streaming DAC
Regular Price $ 7,599 USD
Sale Price $ 7,099 - Order Now

_____________________________________________________

 

 s88 Mark II - New Features

s88 Mark II features new output stages with improved micro-symmetry of the balanced outputs.

Newly released Tidal Connect support allows the Tidal apps on iOS, Android, Mac OS and Windows to stream directly to the S88 Mark II.

New Audio Optimization Settings allow manual selection of PCM reconstructions filters and roll-off filters.

New Settings for SPDIF and Optical TOSLINK inputs allow compatibility with consumer-grade devices that exhibit high jitter, while maintaining sonic purity.

New Bluetooth Audio Streaming support makes s88 Mark II easily accessible in casual listening settings.

New Advanced Settings refine the transition playback states from track to track..

Upgrades for s88 DACs to the Mark II release will be available in the near future.

 

_______________________________________

 

Exasound mentions that an upgrade for those of us with the first version of the s88 will be available in the coming months!

Note the Mark II price, other than the Black Friday deal, has increased from $6500 to $7599.

 

I wonder if Kal will get the upgrade and review it?

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On 11/7/2021 at 8:55 AM, Desertpilot said:

Even in retirement, I don't have time to swat at gnats (LOL).  I will continue to download the original recording format or the DXD post production master.  I just downloaded the Honeck Brahms #4 album in DXD so I can make a/b comparisons.  I probably can not tell the difference.  But, heck, this is my hobby so I might as well do this test.

 

Kal, thank you for your time and sharing your expertise.

 

Marcus

Out of curiousity, did you do a/b comparisons and could you tell any difference? Or did you get to swat at gnats?

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George was nice enough to send me the Mark II (and I've been keeping quiet ever since).  My multichannel system is still a few days away, but I will make sure I give my feedback.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not sure who might be interested but I successfully tested playing a Blu-ray opera (actually a few different operas) through the S88.  As it turns out, the S88 will indeed play DTS-MA files.  I had JRiver set for music, as I usually do, per exaSound instructions.  No changes needed to the audio setup.  I did make appropriate changes to the video setup.  I ran an HDMI cable (for video) from my server to my projector.  Audio was routed normally via USB to the S88.  I played both the stereo PCM (2.0) audio track and the DTS-MA (5.1) audio track.  Each of them played properly (correct channel placement) through the S88.  I did have to adjust each channel's volume settings for balance between channels.  One other clunky issue is menus.  The JRiver app was pretty useless for video (works great for audio).  I had my server mouse at my MLP and I could control S88 volume.  But using the Blu-ray menus was hit and miss.  Sometimes the mouse was good and sometimes I had to go over to the server keyboard.  I'll likely get a Bluetooth keyboard.

 

This surprised me as I didn't think the S88 would decode the DTS-MA surround track.  Now that I think about it, maybe the S88 doesn't decode it.  In JRiver in the bitstreaming dropdown dialog, I have DSD selected.  I don't have any of the other codecs selected so maybe JRiver is decoding the DTS-MA tracks.  It doesn't matter, I'm getting the full benefit of the S88 with my opera movies.  The S88 showed PCM 24/48kHz for both stereo and surround.  Movies will continue through my pre/pro (using a different server).  But, it was great fun to play these operas through the S88.

 

Marcus

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39 minutes ago, Desertpilot said:

This surprised me as I didn't think the S88 would decode the DTS-MA surround track.  Now that I think about it, maybe the S88 doesn't decode it.  In JRiver in the bitstreaming dropdown dialog, I have DSD selected.  I don't have any of the other codecs selected so maybe JRiver is decoding the DTS-MA tracks. 

Yes.  the dts-MA tracks are decoded by JRiver and not by the s88 (or any other exaSound DAC).  Your setting for bitstream is only for DSD and, therefore, is not relevant.  However, when you installed JRiver, you also accepted a list of CODECs that it will decode and dts-MA was probably among them.  Do you recall that list?

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Guys,

 

you asked for an evaluation of the MKII version. This is my personal assessment:

 

The MKII version comes with an improved analogue output stage and some nice features in software.

Now, how does it sound: Magnificent! I have used the Okto DAC8 Pro in the meantime. Returning to the s88 MKII gives a boost in resolution and smoothness, a super-tight and controlled bass and sounds much (!) better than the Okto and better than ever before.

 

For existing user, the update price is absolutely fair. My recommendation: Go for it!

 

Cheers, Ralf

 

P.S. Switch to fast roll-off lin phase filter in the DAC chip. That's much better than the default!

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Has anyone successfully streamed DSD (DSF files) to the s88 using JRiver's "DSD over DLNA" setup?  I know that Kal Rubinson mentioned in his Stereophile review that he had used JRiver to stream to the s88 using UPnP, but I don't know whether that had included DSD.

 

I have recently purchased an s88 Mark II, and I am running JRiver v. 28.0.94 on Win 10/64-bit.  I was able to successfully stream both stereo (up to 24/192) and multichannel PCM (5.1, up to 24/96) to my s88 through JRiver using UPnP, after configuring the JRiver "Media Network", using (along with several other internet sources) the procedure in this guide.

 

However, I just can't get the s88 to output sound when sending it (to start with) a stereo DSD64 (DSF) from JRiver using UPnP.  JRiver shows it playing, the s88 shows that it's receiving PCM 176.4 KHz (the default DLNA server settings I configured JRiver with, according to the above guide, has Audio Mode as "Specified output format" and Audio Format as "PCM 24-bit", and hence the conversion to PCM, I suppose, but I will worry about that later).  But all I get is a faint hiss at the output, even at a pretty high volume (s88 set at 0 dB, my preamp set pretty high).  JRiver's "Audio Path" says that the JRiver audio engine is not being used, which is what I expect when it is the DLNA server.  With the same settings, I get perfect rendering of PCM sources.

 

It is worth mentioning that using the exaSound ASIO driver, and directly connecting the s88 as a USB DAC, the s88 has played everything I threw at it using JRiver as the player, all in the original native format (PCM stereo, PCM 5.1, both of various bit depths/sampling rates, and DSF files up to DSD512 stereo and DSD64 5.1).  I confirmed these with both the s88 display, and the "Audio Path" display in JRiver.  So has the foobar-2k on Windows/s88 as USB DAC combination.

 

Any help to get me over this DSD streaming with JRiver hurdle will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

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15 minutes ago, ted_b said:

What happens when you set (in JRiver's DLNA server settings) format to DSF instead of PCM 24 bit?

 

Same thing (no sound output).  I did try many variations of the settings, including setting "Audio -> Format" to DSF, and also trying with "Advanced -> Bitstream DSD" ON or OFF.  All resulted in no sound.  BTW, even with Format set to DSF, the s88 still showed that it was receiving 176.4 kHz PCM . . .

 

Thanks for your reply.  Please note that I'm no longer gated by this issue: as my digital music collection fits on a couple of 5 TB portable USB drives, since posting this Q, I tried using the s88's built-in UPnP audio library server/renderer by attaching my music as local storage to the s88, and was able to get flawless playback of most formats I have (still trying them out), including DSD stereo/multi-channel, with the Linn Kazoo app, so I'm really happy!  The s88 is reporting the correct format/sampling rate in each case so far.

 

So, to me, whether I can ultimately stream DSD to the s88 using JRiver from my PC has become more of an academic issue.

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