Kal Rubinson Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 57 minutes ago, ted_b said: The 8805 converts your incoming DSD to PCM anyway He is contemplating sending mch analog from his DAC to 7.1 analog inputs on the 8805. something I do in my "other" system. Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
ted_b Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Ah yes, sorry...but I assume the mch analog inputs go to PCM digital, too? Or is there a "pure" bypass? Anyway, he can stay DSD and do trims in HQP. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Desertpilot Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Hi all, I didn't mean to create a "hornets' nest" on this holiday weekend. I appreciate everyone's input. This is just a minor inconvenience. FYI To clarify. I output analog from the S88 via RCA cable to the analog inputs (7.1 channel IN) on my AV8805 pre/pro. I am likely to purchase the switcher box and go direct from S88 to my amplifier. Link to comment
Desertpilot Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I was TOTALLY wrong about channel trims. I just tested it and channel trims work just fine on the server system tray. On the web interface, they are indeed greyed out in USB input mode. But, I just went to my music server and brought up the system tray while a dsd file was playing. Indeed, levels in DSD mode are not active. BUT! I can still click on each channel trim and it will allow me to adjust the trim. So, no problem and I wasted everyone's time. The good news is that if I go direct S88 to amplifier, I can adjust each channel trim even when playing DSD files in USB input mode. Whew! Marcus Link to comment
Steve Bruzonsky Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 I use my s88 as a ROON Ready via ethernet, I do not use the USB input. The s88 channel trims work and show in the s88 menu whatever I play, DSD or PCM. Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 On 9/3/2021 at 6:20 PM, Desertpilot said: To clarify. I output analog from the S88 via RCA cable to the analog inputs (7.1 channel IN) on my AV8805 pre/pro. I am likely to purchase the switcher box and go direct from S88 to my amplifier. So, have you found a switcher? Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
Desertpilot Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 53 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said: So, have you found a switcher? I am going to use the same one you recommended. This will be a big improvement, as I am discovering. Today I moved my surround speakers to the rear of my listening space. I've been having a conversation with the mastering engineer at TRPTK, Brendon Heinst. His recordings specify surround back. He informed me that he mixes to the ITU standard. So, today was spent reconfiguring. I will hopefully order the switcher box and cable tomorrow. I'm feeling kind of dumb as I think I have an issue and twice now, turns out it was my error. Thanks for all your help. Marcus Link to comment
Steve Bruzonsky Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 You are not dumb. You are learning, as we all do when it comes to this crazy hobby! Heck, you live in Vegas, right? Instead of spending money in the casinos you are listening to great music - this makes you very smart! Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 12 hours ago, Desertpilot said: I am going to use the same one you recommended. The Coleman? Good. I asked because you had been using the RCA outputs from the s88 and those would require a different switch. Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
Desertpilot Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 30 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said: The Coleman? Good. I asked because you had been using the RCA outputs from the s88 and those would require a different switch. Yes, the Coleman. Currently, I am XLR from the AV8805 to my Parasound A52+ amplifier. So, XLR from the S88 is the way to utilize the switch. Kal Rubinson 1 Link to comment
Desertpilot Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 10 hours ago, Steve Bruzonsky said: You are not dumb. You are learning, as we all do when it comes to this crazy hobby! Heck, you live in Vegas, right? Instead of spending money in the casinos you are listening to great music - this makes you very smart! Thank you Steve. Link to comment
Desertpilot Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 I found a supplier for the Coleman switcher and Amazon carries the DB to XLR cables. This morning, I disconnected the pre/pro from my amplifier. I then connected the S88 via XLR directly to my amplifier. On my initial testing, I was able to set channel trims in the S88. In my setup, my two rear surrounds need a boost to match my front three speakers. Then, I used JRemote to control main volume. Everything works as advertised. I will spend today listening to music with this new configuration. I am trying to get a review written for a new album, Canto Interno, offered by TRPTK. I purchased the surround 32/352.8 DXD version (original recording format). This will be a nice inducement to complete my review. Thanks everyone for getting me to this point. Marcus Kal Rubinson 1 Link to comment
Desertpilot Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 Coleman switch arrives next Monday, per FedEx. I listened to quite a few albums yesterday (all different formats). They all sound much better with the S88 direct to my amplifier. Difficult to describe but instruments sounded more distinct, clearer, especially piano which was a very welcome improvement. Volume was excellent. I didn't feel a need for any additional amplification. Of course, it could be the "placebo" effect. But, it doesn't matter. When I listen to music, I no longer need to think (worry) about the pre/pro's effect. It's one less thing to distract my enjoyment of the music. Marcus Kal Rubinson 1 Link to comment
Steve Bruzonsky Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 16 hours ago, Desertpilot said: Coleman switch arrives next Monday, per FedEx. I listened to quite a few albums yesterday (all different formats). They all sound much better with the S88 direct to my amplifier. Difficult to describe but instruments sounded more distinct, clearer, especially piano which was a very welcome improvement. Volume was excellent. I didn't feel a need for any additional amplification. Of course, it could be the "placebo" effect. But, it doesn't matter. When I listen to music, I no longer need to think (worry) about the pre/pro's effect. It's one less thing to distract my enjoyment of the music. Marcus Excellent. Listen to a lot of 2 channel. Then when you get the Coleman switcher listen to a lot of the same 2 channel. See if you find what Kal found, then I found, that the Coleman switcher "sounds" transparent! Desertpilot 1 Link to comment
Desertpilot Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 Yeah! Coleman switch just arrived. I did not expect it to be such a beast (heavy). I'll spend the next couple hours connecting it to my system. After several days now of a direct connection (via XLR) between S88 and my amplifier, I am convinced this is a great up grade. Meanwhile, I've been tracking down some nasty audio dropouts. After numerous trouble shooting tasks, it turns out it was my NAS. I'm sure this can be corrected. But, I'm tired on fiddling with it so I transferred my music to a "spinning" harddrive connected to my computer's USB port. It's a 5400 rpm WD Red drive so not optimal. But, almost all dropouts disappeared. I added back speaker correction to both JRiver and ROON. Both are working fine including the distance settings. But, randomly, like once every couple of tracks, both players experience a single brief interruption. Very brief. I am "tweaking" everything I can think of to eliminate this last glitch. The S88 performance monitor show everything is great. Monitoring the computer shows practically no load on the CPU and no throttling. Once I get the switch installed, I'll get back to this, computer power settings, USB sleep settings, etc.. Computer audio is great, except when it's not. Marcus Link to comment
Desertpilot Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 Switch is installed. Works just fine switching between pre/pro and S88. No audio dropouts this morning...so far. I went through all the usual fixes last night. Seems to have worked. Thanks for listening. Marcus Link to comment
Steve Bruzonsky Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 So how do you like using the Coleman switcher - is it sonically transparent in your system? Link to comment
Desertpilot Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/29/2021 at 6:39 PM, Steve Bruzonsky said: So how do you like using the Coleman switcher - is it sonically transparent in your system? Thanks for asking Steve. The Coleman switcher is working perfectly. Yes, sonically transparent! Now that I have implemented a laptop as my music server (JRiver and ROON) via USB to the S88 and my desktop (using a separate JRiver installation) for movies via HDMI to the Marantz pre/pro, I can simply switch between them to my amplifier using the Coleman switch. No more having to adjust settings in my desktop to switch between music and movies. Plus, of course, the ability to go direct from the S88 to my amplifier. This is a great upgrade. JRiver is working flawlessly. I've added "speaker correction" (distance settings). No dropouts or other issues. But, for DSD, JRiver makes no changes which is unfortunate. ROON is a mess. I simply cannot stop audio dropouts, although it does apply speaker corrections to DSD files. I'm trouble shooting using suggestions on another thread. Marcus Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 4 hours ago, Desertpilot said: But, for DSD, JRiver makes no changes which is unfortunate. Technically, neither does any another player/app. Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
Miska Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said: Technically, neither does any another player/app. Ehm? Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Miska said: Ehm? Do you keep the data in 1-bit form? If you do, how come no one else can? Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
Miska Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 10 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said: Do you keep the data in 1-bit form? If you do, how come no one else can? Because they don't consider DSD important enough to spend more time implementing SDM DSP algorithms than they spend implementing PCM versions of those. HQPlayer has two separate DSP engines, one for PCM and one for SDM. I am stubborn and want all the same DSP for both PCM and SDM. One reason I don't support VST plugins or similar. For distance adjustments it is bit-perfect and works even with DirectSDM, it is just N bit long delay lines for each channel. HQPlayer calculates how many bits of delay you need for given distance differences. For level adjustments signal is remodulated with given modulator either without any rate conversions, or (recommended) upsampled directly from one rate to another rate for which you have two algorithm choices. 1-bit -> [modulator] -> 1-bit By the way, if you perform volume control for 24-bit PCM, it is not staying 24-bit... ;) I would be more worried about the DSP performed to DSD inside the ESS DAC chip. It doesn't have direct conversion mode unlike some other chips. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 5 hours ago, Miska said: For level adjustments signal is remodulated with given modulator either without any rate conversions, or (recommended) upsampled directly from one rate to another rate for which you have two algorithm choices. 1-bit -> [modulator] -> 1-bit But does the modulator (or remodulator) maintain the 1-bit construction throughout? (P.S.: I wish I could use HQPlayer with Jriver without resorting to contortions.) Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
Miska Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 10 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said: But does the modulator (or remodulator) maintain the 1-bit construction throughout? It is a bit like asking how many bits your brain uses when calculating 1 + 1. As you can imagine, I'm not going to describe in details how the implementation exactly works inside. But as I said, I'd worry more about what the exaSound DAC in question does to your DSD stream than what HQPlayer does. 10 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said: (P.S.: I wish I could use HQPlayer with Jriver without resorting to contortions.) Why HQPlayer should work with Jriver in first place? Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
ted_b Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 Same reason as Roon as a front end. JRIver is a great library manager and has nice remote control capabilities, etc. and HQPlayer is the state of the art for the back end. Kal Rubinson 1 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
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