Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[R1200CL]

7 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Their circuits are a bit bizarre and a HUGE compromise, but in the end if using their sine wave output with the filter recommended (got to read the paper), one could still get decent performance our of that very inexpensive clock

Maybe John can do a quick an dirty PCB for that OCXO, and we can just replace our BG7TBL clocks 😀

(The clock itself). 

[R1200CL]

3 hours ago, ambre said:

Hi Martin, did you some comparison with Bg7, Afterdark, Cybershaft etc in terms of specs?

 

For approx. € 650 seems a bargain?

 

Not possible to quote about the Gustard. 
It’s been covered on previous page. Don’t buy. PHASE NOISE NUMBERS IS BAD. 
 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/59419-master-clock-for-your-etherregen/?do=findComment&comment=1119354

 

[R1200CL]

wow Adrian. 
@AfterDark.  very attempting. 
 

Any plans of adding these:

https://www.circuitstransistors.com/circuitstransistors?search=BLP-10.7-75

Fake site or ?

 

So will my 5x5 tungsten fit inside your clock ?

Time to show pictures?

[R1200CL]

3 hours ago, sahmen said:

Is this the correct one?

https://www.adark.co/products/afterdark-project-clayx-giesemann-ocxo-10mhz-reference-master-clock-audiophilestyle-edition
 

3 hours ago, sahmen said:

I suppose I am going to need a power supply for the Gieseman and I am wondering whether my LPS 1.2 would work for it.

If this post is correct, the answer is no. 
 

3 hours ago, sahmen said:

What is the correct cable?

Adrian has cable included in is offer. 
 

3 hours ago, sahmen said:

Would i need one for the power supply as well?

DC power cables can affect SQ a lot. 
 

This one should work very well. 
https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc-gac4.html or the more reasonable priced canare. (Use JSSG360). 
 

3 hours ago, sahmen said:

Would someone kindly let me know if there is something else I am missing?  Sorry for all my noob questions.

Probably not, but based on John’s paper which I haven’t studied yet, you need to be aware of if 50 ohm clock will suit you. With a 50 ohm cable. Assuming your EtherRegen is 75 ohm. 
I think it was stated that ohm didn’t matter in that paper. Earlier in this tread there are measurements of cables not matching impedance input. (Search clockmeister posts). 
 

Also it may be that the LPS-1.2 will power it perfectly. At least after warm up. You can discuss this with Adrian, as power up is different than continues draw. Heating up the clock should theoretically reduce or remove heavy power draw at start up. 

[R1200CL]

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/shopbycable/LV77S.htm
Canare crimp connectors
 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Video-Belden-Neutrik-NBNC75TU11X-Blue/dp/B07BZVLPKF/ref=pd_rhf_ee_p_img_5?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=9P2VC1MTQTN76TV25W0D&th=1

 

https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/e07.html. Canare crimp connectors.

(Here you can ask for optional JSSG360. I have no idea if it’s has any affect). 

 

[R1200CL]

Just ordered this 50 ohm cable. Have no idea if specifications is good or not. 
https://no.mouser.com/datasheet/2/1030/141-12BM_2b-1699951.pdf

 

And this one as well.

https://no.mouser.com/ProductDetail/549-CLPFL-0010-BNC

[R1200CL]

@sahmen

All your questions is answered in the AfterDark sponsored forum. I’ve asked the most. As his website is very unclear. But yes, until recently only queen existed as square. The rest is 50 ohm sine. But I think he offers 75 ohm for some. However it’s unclear how he implement this. The clocks is 50 ohm native. 

I personally would bet on sine versions to be best. Hopefully some future equipment will have better receivers as well. Doing the conversion at the end. 
People that bought queen square seems very happy with it. 
 

I personally would prefer Adrian to show pictures of inside, and type of clock.

That may be helpful in understanding what to purchase for some. 
 

Maybe bay pass internal, if any, is the best way to use AfterDark clocks. As with the BG7TL. 

 

[R1200CL]

If anyone like to find phase noise for this clock please share. 
I think it’s directly wired to the clock out. Need a f-connector to BNC. 
 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001402512471.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.56d44353ws9DIc&algo_pvid=6ed87871-60e6-40ea-804a-8ca02cd5a91b&algo_expid=6ed87871-60e6-40ea-804a-8ca02cd5a91b-17&btsid=0bb0623616169715807126671e0fb6&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

 

[R1200CL]

Maybe it’s possible to build your own OCXO. 
https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/141563/1/08540461.pdf

VII. CONCLUSIONS
It is shown that oscillators with the excellent phase noise performance can be built using relatively simple but highly accurate linear theories and these can be implemented using a modular approach to oscillator designs, utilizing transformer coupled differential amplifiers, a three-element filter, and high-pass phase shifter designs.
Further improvements in the longer term phase noise per- formance are expected through the improved and optimized temperature stabilization of the resonator at turnover temper- ature (82 °C). Certain types of components have been found to be more effective in keeping the phase noise low.

[R1200CL]

This is a “native” square wave clock. 
How come the data sheet can list phase noise, when phase noise is only available on sine ?

 

http://www.analysir.com/downloads/isotemp ocxo 131 10MHz.pdf

 

 

[R1200CL]

5 minutes ago, Tokyokyoto said:

I inquired Paul Pang Audio for clock specs.  What do y’all thinkk?

I think he didn’t give you 1Hz. 
I think anything below 10Hz -130dBc/Hz may not worth the effort. 

[R1200CL]

Here is the tungsten on place on the BG7TBL
Very simple heat isolation. A 6mm plate used for isolation of heated floors. Double on top.

The heat may loosen the tape, I could probably done better to ensure that. 

 

[R1200CL]

@PYP

That’s not phase noise numbers ?

Are you trying to find good cables for a square clock ?

[R1200CL]

 @AfterDark.

Isn’t you doing some heat isolation on your clocks ?

Like to explain ? Anyone looking inside your clock should be available to see this.

 

 

• OCXO is enclosed and covered with Dynamat Extreme Corporation (Made in USA) which is used to stabilize and minimize heat separation,  addition EMI material from KEMET EMI Shielding is placed on top of OCXO,  the outer layer is covered with real leather to isolate the heat factors for maximizing OCXO performance . 

[R1200CL]

@DarqueKnight

I studying my clock below this week. Mine has some modifications none of yours seems to have. Did you purchase the EtherRegen version from Ham Radioshop ?

[R1200CL]

One of us can’t have what we expect to have.......

But you did measure yours, so I suppose you have as said. 

[R1200CL]

10 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Getting a decent sound improvement out of this box is more a matter of luck than technical "goodness"  of any cables or connectors.

Well, I really doesn’t hope the same applies to the AfterDark clock you have. 

[R1200CL]

Well, let’s hope it’s possible to get some tip on how to modify it.

(John has already said how, but I’m not able to turn his introductions in to do it correctly). 

@Exocer Maybe you can help ?

[R1200CL]

9 hours ago, DarqueKnight said:

Your BG7TBL uses a different OCXO (Frequency Communications) than mine (Symmetricom).

Do you know if data sheet is different ?

http://pmod27b6c.pic34.websiteonline.cn/upload/FE180datasheet.pdf

[R1200CL]

Here is a bit OT about research on clocks. 

Maybe we can rent clock signals over the internet in the future. Fiber optic clocks is latest technology under developed. 
I would be happy if we’re getting optical transfer of OCXO clock signals one day. 

 

 

[R1200CL]

On 4/10/2021 at 1:34 AM, JohnSwenson said:

but there is no way you can use this to measure phase noise even close to the levels we are talking about here.

What would it take ?

Any of these ?

https://www.electronicproducts.com/top-7-usb-oscilloscopes-for-makers-and-pros/#

 

I guess USB versions is the way to go ?
https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/test-methods/oscilloscope/usb-pc-based-oscilloscope.php

I like this one. WiFi directly to iPad. 😀

https://www.amazon.com/Hantek-IDSO1070A-Oscilloscope-Programmable-Generator/dp/B07GWMCHS8/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Hantek+IDS1070A&qid=1618142583&sr=8-1#productDetails

[R1200CL]

On 4/9/2021 at 2:55 AM, manueljenkin said:

There's also this lecture series that I have been going through, is fantastic: 

I’ve saw this 1.5 hour video. Not sure, but it seems to be a limitation to how good phase noise you need, before the internal noise of various components is added.

Would be interesting to know if there actually is a phase noise number to be considered as sufficient ?

I guess a question almost impossible to answer.

 

Keep in mind that it has been said, using a clock in a B>A setup, shouldn’t be expected to work (have an improvement). Or at least not as good as A>B. This because of internal noise added by the isolator. I don’t know if a isolator even has phase noise numbers. 

[R1200CL]

23 minutes ago, ambre said:

1) No changed on the fly.

That’s impossible ? 
EtherRegen must have the external clock available during startup, or it will fail, right ?

 

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, FIndingit said:

I ordered the filter from Mini-Circuits in UK, estimated shipping 21st April. 

They obviously is sold out 😀

 

This one arrived an hour ago. Using the Cybershaft version now. 

[R1200CL]

I purchased this cable as a test https://no.mouser.com/datasheet/2/1030/141-12BM_2b-1699951.pdf   It’s very stiff. It was actually this one https://no.mouser.com/ProductDetail/549-CLPFL-0010-BNC that was the reason for my visit at the shop. 
So YES 😀 @ambre I did mean the Crystek. My bad. I said the BLP-10.7+, had arrived today, and I just switched it out with the Crystek. I have ordered a second one (BLP-10.7+) from AfterDark. It was shipped today together with a King clock. 
The plan is to test out the Cybershaft T with dual filters.