What is the perfect kva (isolation transformer) for gryphon diablo 300 to the point where it doesnt kill the dynamics

[kerisabe]

Youre comments and experiences are appreciated. Im currently running a 4kva which is more than double what the diablo 300 instantaneous 1900watts at peak but I still feel like it kills abit of the bass (thickness of sound). Please advice thanks 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I can only offer experience on this one, but it's with other gear. I'm using a 5kVA balanced transformer from 512 Engineering to power my Constellation Audio Inspiration Series monoblocks. These are the only two electronics connected to the 5 kVA. There is absolutely zero dynamic compression.

 

 

 

[One and a half]

Gee, my hearing wouldn't last at 1900 W sustained, 4 kVA is plenty thermally, plus short circuit capacity. 

 

Please make sure one side of the transformer is grounded and use that same ground to the Diablo. 

[kerisabe]

Thanks for the inputs guys. 
 

@One and a half should the main or secondary one of the balanced transformer be grounded? Now the ground stays on the outside of the transformer. 
 

and for some reason from 4kva transformer i still feel some minor dynamic compression of the diablo 300. Which is weird since the peak it needs is only 1900watts. 
 

another point i would point out is when the power circuitry that is connected through that balanced transformer is checked using the ifi acipurifier, the ground and polarity warning lights are both red. 
 

 

[One and a half]

25 minutes ago, kerisabe said:

Thanks for the inputs guys. 
 

@One and a half should the main or secondary one of the balanced transformer be grounded? Now the ground stays on the outside of the transformer. 
 

and for some reason from 4kva transformer i still feel some minor dynamic compression of the diablo 300. Which is weird since the peak it needs is only 1900watts. 
 

another point i would point out is when the power circuitry that is connected through that balanced transformer is checked using the ifi acipurifier, the ground and polarity warning lights are both red. 
 

 

Ok, a balanced transformer secondary is a different method of grounding.  The secondary centre tap should be grounded as well as the frame of the transformer to the Diablo. 

 

The purifier may show errors since a balanced supply may not be recognised as such. If the purifier needs a grounded neutral to work then it may not be effective on a balanced supply since the internal filtering may be wired differently. I don't know the internal of the purifier to comment fully, but error lamps on something like that indicate a real error or mis reading. Try connecting on the primary side instead , reflecting noise to the network rather than to the Diablo. If the purifier gets warm it's doing it's job.  

 

To be really effective at reducing common mode noise,  the volts between the centre ground and the two outer live pins should be identical to the last decimal. I found that off the shelf transformers had too much of a gap when under light loads, whereas the Topaz and Equitech  are a lot better. Thus equates to a blacker background and improved bass detail.

 

I can't comment on the lack of dynamics,  perhaps there's more noise on the Diablo input masking itself and smearing dynamics or from a signal source via a back door. Electrically, there's enough reserve in the transformer. 

[kerisabe]

Ok, so now i need to connect the center pin of the primary and frame with the ground that goes to the diablo correct? 

[kerisabe]

@One and a half

 

so i need to connect the main ground from mcb to the central tap of primary winding, and connect the grounding going to diablo, secondary winding neutral to the secondary winding centre tap? Please correct me if Im wrong. Much appreciated

[fas42]

One reason that dynamics are affected is because the instantaneous current that the amplifier calls upon from the mains, to top up its smoothing caps, can't be met - or to put it another way, that the impedance of the isolating transformer, irrespective of what its rating is, is not  a good match for the power supply characteristics of the amplifier.

 

What to do about it? Try the suggestions by @One and a half ; if that doesn't help, then investigating alternative methods of cleaning up the mains is one idea ... a crude, but effective way of testing the impact of changing the feed to things like amplifiers is to effectively create a dedicated spur from the outside supply - does that tell you anything, by the change in the SQ?

[One and a half]

22 hours ago, kerisabe said:

@One and a half

 

so i need to connect the main ground from mcb to the central tap of primary winding, and connect the grounding going to diablo, secondary winding neutral to the secondary winding centre tap? Please correct me if Im wrong. Much appreciated

First things first, what is the voltage on your system?

[kerisabe]

1 hour ago, One and a half said:

First things first, what is the voltage on your system?

the gryphon diablo 300 accepts 220-240V, the iso transformer i did was 4kva 220in 220out. 

[cjf]

FWIW, all of the iso-transformers and similar power cleaning devices I've owned/tried always had the same issue..no matter how big or no matter what they cost when plugging large Amps into them. This of course is despite whatever the creator of said device claims.

 

These days I use a Shunyata Denali 6000T for Front-End components only and Amps go straight to the wall.

 

I won't say that there we not subtle benefits heard with Amps plugged into these devices but those benefits never outweighed the loss of instantaneous dynamics in the bass region that I hear with the same Amps plugged directly into the wall.

 

IME, I feel that the extra bass weight heard after plugging in a large Amp into one of these devices is the result of the bass dynamics slowing down and some what muddying up  a bit which gives the impression of their being More bass but it seems as though that bass has lost a bit of its "Bite" in the process.

 

Just my 2cents

[One and a half]

My laptop's battery is on an expansion campaign, squeezing out other components on the motherboard, and causing random crashes, making long periods of copying data very difficult!

 

So to wire the transformer for balanced output, if a Topaz designations for North America.

 

Primary

230V line Active - H1

230V Neutral - H4

Join/Jumper - H2 & H3

PE - Frame & X2 & X3

 

Secondary

115V L1 output - X1

115V L2 output - X4

Join/Jumper - X2 & X3

 

So Diablo is connected across X1 to X4 for 230V and the earth to the centre point X2 & X3.

 

 

 

[One and a half]

Output Impedance.

Here's Equitech's take on output impedance on their Q range transformers.

 

"The ultra-low impedance design of the Model Q transformer provides unrestricted current delivery to its output and virtually busts the “myth” that transformers cannot handle high amplitude current transients demanded by amplifiers and other types of high current pulse loads.  Unlike typical transformers that are often considered to be “too current restricting” (and rightfully so,) Model Q transformers have been engineered with radical modifications made to their core and winding specifications which result in a transformer that has uncommonly low impedance and unrestricted current handling characteristics.  They provide instantaneous current response with the capacity to handle much larger current transients than any comparable solid state AC generator or inverter system. The amplitude of the current transients a Model Q transformer can easily accommodate would likely explode any similar solid state based device and it does this effortlessly with almost no measureable current sag.  In technical jargon, the magnetic flux density of its core operates at a fraction of its capacity thereby providing an extreme amount of current headroom with a magnetic current transfer hysteresis curve that is far more linear than anything similar to it, even when driven at or near its maximum continuous power rating.  It is virtually impossible detect any significant current sag or to drive a Model Q transformer into saturation.  Furthermore, the line-to-ground impedance on its output is only a fraction of the line-to-ground impedance found in similarly rated solid state systems.  This means that Model Q transformers attenuate a much wider bandwidth of non-linear reactive load harmonics (noise) than any comparable “low impedance” solid state AC generator or inverter."

[kerisabe]

Thank you @One and a half apology for the late response. Finally fixed the polarity and ground on the iso transformer but I still felt the reduced dynamics and stiffness from the diablo 300. 
 

Had the iso transformer removed and diablo 300 direct to my 20A dedicated line now its back alive. The only route im thinking next is to try the shunyata denali 6000 v2. I just want to hear how much of a difference it is compared to direct to the wall. 

[StephenJK]

On 2/19/2020 at 11:24 AM, kerisabe said:

Youre comments and experiences are appreciated. Im currently running a 4kva which is more than double what the diablo 300 instantaneous 1900watts at peak but I still feel like it kills abit of the bass (thickness of sound). Please advice thanks

Deleted

[Speedskater]

It's doubtful that a quality 4kVA isolation transformer would impact peak power or bass response. The differences that you hear are probably caused by some other overlooked uncontrolled variable. Maybe cleaner AC power results in more accurate (but less enjoyable) bass.