Building a DIY Music Server

[MarcelNL]

anyone here ever tried to use the HDplex GPU heatsink for a CPU? I'm not particularly fond of alu/metal cases for audio so I'd like to use the copper base and heatpipes to connect to a heatsink but build a wood case (with EMI countermeasures) for the whole shebang when done. Given that the HDplex GPU kit states a TDP of 100Watt or so it should be doable if the dimensions fit an AM4 socket and MB....

[MarcelNL]

and Optane, which I'm now unable to use 🙄

[MarcelNL]

As much as I don't mind spending money on quality of things that matter in life at a price point of 1200 euro or so this ATX is not a no brainer to me, some way to audition it would be nice.

[MarcelNL]

Living in the Netherlands where Taiko is based there ought to be ways to audition this PSU without travelling 8 hours ;-) (I used to frequent NYC and NJ a lot until this pandemic came around, so I would have taken you up on that offer)

 

Driving up to Taiko for a listen or loaning a unit is perfectly fine with me (or at whatever distributor they select should the busy work involved with serving us DIY crowd be too much of a burden, which I'd understand)

 

 

 

[MarcelNL]

BTW, I would strongly suggest to test powering cards and SSD externally where possible...I recently added a nice LPS for my SSD and was shocked about the difference it made (about as much as powering it externally with a switching PSU)

[MarcelNL]

39 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

I'd like to believe he's doing this purely as an enthusiast. But the fact that the Taiko DC-ATX order form is not available on Taiko website nor in the official Taiko sticky thread on whatsbestforum and was first posted here by @Nenon does not make him objective and this can't be debated. 

 

 

I don't think anyone is objective, I have however a hard time buying the suggestion hidden in this comment. @Nenon has been completely transparent about his affiliation and initiative and is also transparent when he cannot share certain information. I'm  not  buddies with him, nor am I objective either ;-)

 

 

edit: nenon shared the PRE order form, just to capture interest. Neither is WBF a 'DIY rich' place IMO, there is little point selling an ATX to folks owning an Extreme.

 

 

 

 

[MarcelNL]

3 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

But I'd like to see hard data to justify Taiko DC-ATX superiority other than an opinion of 2 users. 

 

EOT

IMO there is no data that will show how the thing sounds, before I shell out that much for an ATX I want to audition it and I plan to do just that if possible or I'll pass and will tinker away on a PSU myself.  

[MarcelNL]

My main question for the PSU is, how much of an effect does AC ripple have on SQ AKA how much ripple current is acceptable? I mean to adequately filter 20Amps or so @12V you need a whopping capacitance, however if that ripple decreases due to the MB creating 1 V out of the 12V there is a reasonable chance that the remaining ripple current decreases.

 

 

[MarcelNL]

2 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

 

It will be known to the public soon. 

the picture is not showing if that is the answer to your somewhat cryptical response ;-)

 

BTW: I am referring to AC ripple due to rectifying, not any over/undershoot after current surges/variations...those are another topic alltogether that is causing me some headaches (in a class A amp it's simple enough as the current is steady)

[MarcelNL]

1 minute ago, Marcin_gps said:

The situation on the graph is the most extreme, in real life, and for a music server, if intensive DSP is disabled, the ripple will be in µV. For a truly linear ATX power supply this is a huge achievement. 

for me there is no graph showing...

[MarcelNL]

https://audiophilestyle.com/uploads/monthly_2021_04/image.png.cec4ce56161f3dc3350f204d20c6320d.png isonly getting me a file not found message

[MarcelNL]

If I click the links I shared I'm still getting file not found.

 

So...with the revelation of the Taiko ATX we may need to add a Corsair AX1600i to the mix as might be somewhat similar (to the naked eye)

[MarcelNL]

@Nenon Are you drawing conclusions based on comparing off the shelve transformers or custom wound transformers?

No criticism, just trying to understand, I'm working with a transformer winder (if that is a name at all) who has a wealth of knowledge and seems capable of hitting the right spot when I tell him what the transformer is needed for. 

I don't have the picture but he wound me some (400H) chokes for my tube amp that likely will run using mercury filled rectifiers, he used paper between each layer, custom anti vibration frame etc etc. Bottom line is, he know how to make a transformer for a specific purpose.

[MarcelNL]

for me living in the EU  .co.uk is a no go until the import/export mess is sorted ;-)

[MarcelNL]

@Nenon It may help if you describe (or point at a location) your setup. The possible range between speakers and amps etc is very very wide.

[MarcelNL]

don't forget ILP, they also made some great sounding ones (Canterburywinders is the preovious designer for ILP).

I'll trust my guy, but as with Canterbury he only does the odd tranny here and there, definitely no large runs. 

[MarcelNL]

a fan-less MB is nice, it is possible to use fan management as for the CPU on some MB;s so depending on the use case there may not be a reason to look for a fan-less MB. The Aorus MB I'm currently using has a fan-stop feature, in my usage the chipset fan never comes on, the CPU fan also hardly does.

[MarcelNL]

that should be easy to check for someone, enable and disable C states while overclocking and listen. For me the improved SQ is noticeable with C states disabled (in Bios and in Daphile-Linux)

[MarcelNL]

2 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

6 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

the CPU fan also hardly does

Ugh, I would stay away from any computer fans. But that's me. 

 

I definitelyy plan to get rid of the fan, so far I haven't found a solution that I trust for passive cooling but the fan does not kick on until 55'C core temp which I hardly reach....current temp with a FLAC playing is 48'C, the Xilinx card runs hotter!

 

[MarcelNL]

I think the background is similar to having a power amp with excess power....when do you need the last few Watts if you're listening to the first few mW most of the time. The comparison is not 1:1, especially not for class A amps but still. 

 

Going from a NUC to a Ryzen 3 was quite a jump in SQ, the 5 was another jump, stepping up to the 7 was another improvement....I don't think the Ryzen 3 was overwhelmed running red book without any upsampling etc in Daphile. 

[MarcelNL]

45 minutes ago, Gurkel said:

 

Dumb question: do you have some skills in maths/phyiscs and maybe a bit about computer hardware?

 

Because what you are telling me is impossible to achieve the way to plan to do it,.

 

The idea with the multi processors and "optimzed OS" is completely wrong, which is something anyone knows who is overclocking his computer, but let me explain it. Modern CPUs contain multiple cores for the fastest possible way of doing calculations, plus run at very high frequencies. The higher the frequency they run, the faster they calculate. Problem is: they consume a lot of power which must be removed by a dedicated cooler, and the higher the frequency a cpu runs, the more heat must be removed. So heat is a limiting factor of the performance of a CPU, and Intel and AMD do anything to optimize the way how heat is generated.

On trick every CPU with more than one core does, is the following. It analysises which core is busy with doing calculations (and generates heat) and moves the process to different core after some milliseconds. By doing this, the CPU can spread the generated heat over a bigger area. So not a single spot gets really hot but the whole CPU warms up. And this gives the cooler the chance to move more heat away, resulting in a better performance of the CPU due to higher possible frequenciey it can run. This function is hard coded into the CPU and cannot be modified by any software, leave alone an "optimized OS". It also cannot be modified by changing the clock speed, so no matter if you run your computer at 1GHz or 4GHz, it will do the same process swap all the time. Last but not least I am sure that the tidal or Noon server running on a windows machine is not multithreaded but a single thread. If you run such server software on a machine with 40 threads, you have 39 idle threads and the one doing something is bored by the amount of information it has to push around.

 

The "low latency" for audio streams is not required. The digital signal going out on an USB port to the DAC is in the range of 350kb/s, which is an amount of data far far far away from a range where you need some more "horse power" to do the job. My rock64 (a simple SBC) can handle 80MB/sec without issues. And low latency also is not required because the data exchange is asynchronus, which means: the data doesn't have to arrive "just in time" and if the computer is busy doing something else at the moment, everything breaks. A short delay is captured by the buffer on the receiving side.

 

 

I stumbled across the description of one of these prebuild HQ servers (Takio? Taiko?), had a look at the product details and was a bit amused to see that someone really gets away with this and actually sells these computers.

 

 

So, why spend thousands of dollars if it's not required?

please invest in some listening time rather than theorizing more. Or better, do the experiment and let us know what you find; compare that minimalistic computer with a dedicated server/audio PC...

BTW what components is your chain made of? 

[MarcelNL]

 Just build it, listen to it and be happy...or open your mind and listen to more options and THEN make up your mind which route to go for best Sound Quality. It's not that this bunch of folks likes to invest in hardware just for fun. I don't need a high power CPU for my system at all, yet a fact is that my music sounds much better when it's processed that way.

 

to use a car analogy, a good 4.2L V8 with 350 or so HP accelerates a lot different than a biturbo car with 350 HP...there is no substitute for cubic inches except more cubic inches

[MarcelNL]

@Gurkel I somehow believe we are miscommunicating here, the purpose of this thread is not to lowest grade CPU that can run something but finding the system that offers the best sound quality.

[MarcelNL]

I saw and will stay silent. wondering if you read anything in this thread and what you are listening to.

[MarcelNL]

trolling alert