Building a DIY Music Server

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8 minutes ago, abase said:

.yes it is - so I must thank you for spend so many information on your website. Today I followed your guide to update the firmware...

 

 

 

Today the card is running over 10 hours ;-). All my single mode transeivers are not working with the card. At the moment I`m using a multimode tranceiver..
I think that is the reason why I`m not satisfy with the sound...

Could be! I always strongly preferred the sound of single mode transceivers.

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The difference in quality between this and the H5 is quite astonishing. I happen to have a set of these chassis as well. The LPS chassis will be used for my final LPS build (for the foreseeable future), while the server chassis will be used for my previous SOTM build. I can’t wait to fire this up again in its new chassis to listen for the improvements mentioned above by Angelo.

 

@SK8 special shout out to you as well. I won’t speak on Angelo’s behalf but as far as I’m concerned your chassis design really made me want to build my own chassis. I don’t have the time to come up with this on my own, so yeah, chatting with Angelo 1:1 eventually resulted in what you see here. Angelo’s interpretation of his dream chassis.

 

 

 

As you can see, it isn’t completely done yet but I couldn’t help not posting about it. To prospective buyers of this chassis, I am quite certain you will be amazed at the quality and SQ benefits. Thanks for bringing this to fruition @AngeloVRA. It is a game changer to say the least.

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1 minute ago, Nenon said:

So this is a commercial product, not a DIY project?

Good question - I heard through the grapevine that people wanted to buy one of these (even someone I’ve built an lps for reached out to me directly about availability) and given the way we do things in the diy community, a group buy naturally came to mind. Why? Because producing only one of these chassis is WAY more expensive than having multiple built up. It would be a win-win for all involved.

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56 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

I think discussing a chassis for the dual CPU Asus Sage build is right on topic here. 

 

After more than 4 years of experimentations, 245 pages, and trying many different motherboards and CPUs, nothing comes even close to the dual CPU Asus Sage, at least not on these DIY pages. Not even the custom purpose motherboards with fancy clocks, masterclocks, etc. 

 

But that dual CPU Asus Sage is quite difficult to passively cool down for multiple reasons. First, it's using a server based CPU with not so popular socket in the AV sector. Second, it has two CPUs. Third, the motherboard size is very big. 

As far as I am aware, only HDPlex has a working solution. HDPlex is pretty good at cooling down one 85W CPU but handling two is pushing the limits of its heatsinks. And as good as this DIY server sounds, if you can drop the temperature a bit, it sounds even better. This is where a better chassis will really shine. And that product does not exist. It will be really cool if you can make one, @AngeloVRA. 

To give others an idea of how the Asus Sage fits the existing Angelo chassis design:

 

There is certainly enough space if one were to position the DC-ATX module where I’ve positioned it with my hand. This is more difficult to accomplish with the H5 since it is shorter and the lip of the front panel gets in the way.

 

For those with Asus Sage builds perhaps it makes sense to start with how we would prefer to handle the LPS. Take a poll?

 

Who would prefer a 1 box solution vs a 2 box solution?

 

edit: Yes that is the HDplex 500w I am going to test soon, not the Taiko dc-ATX. Either would work in this position.

 

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1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

I own the Taiko DIY chassis today and have been able to heavily upsample for weeks straight without any issue of heat dissipation.  I installed Panzerholz for the ULPS components although can't say definitively whether there was a SQ benefit by doing so.  It did allow for more flexible placement of the supply components.

 

I have since removed the ULPS components out of the server chassis and back into its own.  It is very difficult to A/B because of the time and effort involved in moving the components around. When I first moved the ULPS into the server chassis I believed I heard a loss of SQ.  After a year of listening with the supply components in the server chassis I moved them out and believe there to be an improvement in SQ.  I don't know if it's expectation bias.  One would think that there is noise generated by the supply that impacts the server components.

 

My only complaints with the Taiko chassis are that is designed to have the supply inside, so unnecessarily big without, and its backplate for holding down PCI cards is terrible.  Top ventilation could also be better. I'm not sure why they didn't duplicate that from the Extreme. 

 

My vote would be for a 2 box solution.  Big enough for the Sage motherboard, but capable of other form factors.  Also having enough room for the DC-ATX module.  It would also be nice to be able to install a SOtM sCLK-EX in it, but that may be of limited value.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, JackJohnson316 said:

When I installed the dual cpu sage motherboard into the HDPlex H5 case I had to drill I believe five additional holes in the bottom plate to match the sage stud layout. Some of the holes came very close to the bottom plate ventilation holes. So if there are plans for the sage motherboard diy case, let’s make sure there aren’t any issues with the bottom plate studs. Thanks 

The both of you make very good points.

 

Today, although the existing baseplate has many holes, they do not all align with the Sage motherboard. So the baseplate plate would require a design change or DIY mod for the Sage to mount perfectly.
 

I am going to cast my vote for two chassis as well.

 

Reasons being:

 

1. One chassis would be massive but you’d still be relatively restricted from a diy perspective. Us tweakers/DIYers would like space to explore different/larger caps, bypass caps etc. Keeping the LPS in a separate spacious chassis helps with flexibility.

 

2. Two chassis would distribute the weight. You wouldn’t have one massive box to carry.

 

3. One could experiment with DC input conductors more easily.

 

 

Slightly noteworthy topic: The Modushop chassis most of us use for our ULPS (Slimline 3U) offers a nice amount of space/flexibility but the rear/top/bottom panels are particularly flexible. There is room for improvement there.

 

I realize point 4 is a separate topic but factually, the Slimline 3U can use a beefier base/top/rear plate for strength.
 

That being said: In a perfect world, the existing Angelo design would be perfect for the Asus Sage C621 if the chassis were:

 

1. At least an internal height of 120mm to match the Slimline 3U, but not necessarily required.

 

2. Approximately 4” (100mm) deeper to allow for base plate mounting of the Taiko dc-ATX module.

 

3. Same width as the existing chassis OR if there is some horizontal space to add several inches (~3”) to the left side of the motherboard to allow for lps modules, a clock module/sclk-ex for those who want to go crazy and try reclocking their sage boards (I’m not interested or adventure enough to do this), but to retain the overall dimensions we have today this would get us relatively close.

 

I actually like the short brackets vs the long brackets.

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Alright, the time has come to gauge interest. Angelo has to invest time and energy into creating the “XL” version of his existing chassis. This would be a huge favor to the diy world. Without clear interest it will not be a worthwhile venture for him:

 

1. Upvote this post if you are 95% or more certain (seriously) you want the Angelo chassis for a dual sage build.

 

2. Like this post if you want the existing design, which will work perfectly for ATX/ Micro ATX builds.

 

if you would want one of each just quote the post and say “both”.

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58 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Both as the existing design is the same for a ULPS. 

Would require a new backplate though, with one output vs a motherboard rear panel.

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4 hours ago, AngeloVRA said:

If the server chassis is repurposed as a power supply chassis, They can use the holes for the Jaeger chassis connector for output.

and cover the I/O panel and PCIE slot openings with a thin aluminum or copper plate from the inside. 

The cover plate for the I/O Panel can then have an IEC connector.  

True! But chassis height becomes a concern, especially if one uses the large Mundorf cap. The 120mm height of the slimline 3U is already almost snug .

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4 hours ago, Nenon said:

Met with Jord @Pink Faun at Axpona yesterday, and we talked in depth about his new USB card, and all the development and challenges he ran into before releasing it. 

 

It has supercaps that take about two minutes to fully charge. But you need to have power on startup, so the computer can initialize the chip and then you need to switch to supercaps power so quickly that the chip cannot detect it (think nanoseconds). 

Super interested in hearing this someday. It is well out of my price range but surely it’s up there with the best in terms of performance.

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1 hour ago, JackJohnson316 said:

I finally managed to get my Dual sage DIY project started. I started with only one cpu connected with two sticks of cheap Amazon ram, just incase something went wrong. Then I added the other cpu. Then I added some hard drives, and the JCat ethernet and usb cards. Everything is running smoothly on Euphony Stylus. It started right up with no issues so far. 

 

Next I'll add the rest of the "quality" ram, Taiko atx, ULPS, and some good dc cables. I'm still waiting on some passive cooling units, so I'm temporarily using active cooling fans. They are louder than I want, but soon I can replace them with a fanless option.

 

The first music I played was from Billy Raffoul, 1975, and it totally left my Dac's internal streamer in the dust. And I haven't even tweaked or optimized anything yet, and the sound is amazing. I imagine things will continue to get better as it burns in and I optimize everything I can.

 

I'll update with pictures after I optimize everything, and move everything to a bigger case with passive cooling. I also plan to install Windows 11 Pro with Roon later this week. It will be interesting comparing this to Stylus V4. 

Looking good.

 

Wait until you get proper cabling, lps, and passive cooling 😎.

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Speaking of proper cabling - @Nenon had mentioned stranded Mundorf Copper Angelique wire to me (I had already spotted it) but he encouraged me to try it. I like it A LOT. It actually replaced a glorious Mundorf SG cable on my USB card and I haven’t looked back. This will probably be what I go with for my ATX, EPS, DC input cabling in the new chassis.

 

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7 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Solid core? What diameter?

Mundorf CAW is now available in stranded form:

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/sites/default/files/2024-01/Mundorf ACS Angelique Copper Stranded Wires datasheet.pdf

 

I meant to mention in my post that the stranded CAW replaced the solid core SG. The solid core CAW did not replace the SG although it too is very good 😎.

 

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53 minutes ago, lwr said:

Are you using stranded CAW to replace solid SG in signal cables as well as power cables?  

Are you saying that in these applications the stranded CAW has as exquisite an openness in the middle through highest frequencies as the SG?

I have only tried stranded CAW on the dc cable feeding my usb card. I can’t comment on how it will compare to SG with signal cables or AC power cables. It’s affordable enough to do some exploration of your own. I have a diy 5awg solid core Mundorf CAW power cable that sounds wonderful and open, with a ton of dynamic expression capability. I use that at the wall feeding my power conditioner. If only I could afford to build a similar cable with SG 😎.

 

From my notes:

 

1. Stranded caw sounds very natural and balanced.

2. It is dynamic and flows well.

3. Maintains most of the “sweetness” I like about solid core CAW, while not losing as much resolution as solid core CAW vs SG.

 

I would rank solid core caw on the more “intimate” slightly less detailed side vs stranded caw capturing most of the positive traits of both and losing out on the extremes of both too. The stranded caw does not sound any more veiled vs the SG in my system which I considered to be more resolving than ever (compared to just a few months ago). Consider it an easier to work with happy medium of the two. 

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Just now, mikicasellas said:

 

Bro !

 

What size do you suggest for each ? :

 

-- ATX

-- EPS

-- PSU

Good question- I spoke with a manufacturer out in Budapest who I am cool with, who suggested using LARGER awg wire for ground vs the positive pole. 
 

Im not endorsing that approach but I will certainly try it with my new round of experiments. 
 

For ATX, EPS, PSU - I like Mundorf’s 15.5awg or if on a budget, Neotech 16awg.

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12 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

...You got me spinning !

 

Do you and Nenon concur that stranded sounded better than solid ( in a nutshell ? )

 

Thank you Bro !

@Nenonhave you tried it yet?

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46 minutes ago, genvirt said:

Have You tried on ATX connector to use cooper wire for ground and silver one for positive pole?

R

Not yet. I may just try that though. @BCRichand I were just chatting about this.

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32 minutes ago, kraftundkultur said:

who is the manufacturer in Budapest, I live here and have not heard of it

I haven’t mentioned the name of the manufacturer 😎. Let’s connect offline just in case they want to keep their anonymity.

 

For clarity: the conversation discusses the use of heavier gauge ground wire than positive in a dc connection. 
 

edit: spoke with ceo of Core Audio Hungary (not sure if Budapest) and he’s ok with me sharing that tidbit of our convo.