littlej0e Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 First, I just want to thank everyone that has contributed to this thread. I've learned a ton and I'm not even finished reading yet lol. Second, I wanted to solicit opinions to help finish my hybrid DIY taiko'ish build. The problem I'm running into is signal conversion from 1/10 gig LC single mode/multimode fiber to 3-pin AES/EBU XLR. Ethernet to AES is super easy, but fiber to AES is proving to be much more difficult. I would prefer to go the AES route as it traditionally carries far less noise and in almost every instance (save for the USB implementation on the legit Taiko Extreme), AES tends to sounds better to my ears than USB. Does anyone know of a good quality fiber to balanced 3-pin AES/EBU XLR converter or native PCIE to 3-pin AES/EBU XLR (not the 25 pin)? Pink Faun sells a PCIE "bridge" with AES/EBU, but I can't find any pictures to confirm it is the 3-pin version. I reached out to Jord at Pink Faun for clarification and I'm waiting to hear back. This is the only solution I could find, but it doesn't support more than 48kHz: https://www.transwan.com.cn/collections/balanced-audio-to-fiber-converter-line-level-audio-over-fiber-extender/products/4-channels-balanced-audio-to-fiber-converter-over-20-kilometres-single-mode-fiber?variant=31416469323838 My other options are to ditch the 10G intel fiber card and use my Adnacos instead (pcie fiber card to usb converter) or ditch my AES dream and go with USB. Any help you folks could provide would be hugely appreciated. Link to comment
Popular Post littlej0e Posted January 16, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2023 On 9/20/2022 at 1:28 PM, di-fi said: APACER Industrial M.2 2280 SSD 120GB SATA 3.1 TLC -40…85°C @ 68 EURO (3 left) FLASH Type : TLC BiCS3 = pSLC (as far as I understand, but doublecheck) My understanding is the pSLC needs 1/3 of the total disk space to work optimal. So at 120GB you will have 40GB to install OS, should be plenty. https://www.soselectronic.com/products/apacer/a52-255hha-00104-320333 PM me if you want to mail SOS direct (I have no financial interest other than that I bought all my APACER from them for a good price, shipped to Canada). You rule! Just saved me hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Very much appreciated! lwr and di-fi 1 1 Link to comment
littlej0e Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Great question. I have no idea. I only purchased Apacer RAM from SOS electronics. Paid less than half what it would have cost through other avenues. lwr 1 Link to comment
littlej0e Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 hour ago, MarcelNL said: RAM is random access memory, aka the sticks that provide volatile memory in your computer. SsD is Solid State Disc, which is memory that does not suffer from Alzheimer.... Pseudo SLC is a mode in which you use another SSD storage format way less efficuent but with a sonic advantage Understood. In that case, I can't confirm TLC can indeed be used in pseudo SLC mode. Also not sure about the penalties you speak of, but I haven't noticed any restrictions using my 16G RAM sticks in a 10/10/12 config (10G dedicated to RAM, 10G to ZRAM/a.k.a. ramroot/a.k.a swap, 12G free). I assume the fake Taiko (Faiko?!?) server I'm building will be more of the same. Obviously, 48G RAM will be supreme overkill, so I'll play around with the configs and see what sounds best. Given the direct PCIE bus access for both storage and boot drives, I do wonder if loading to RAM will actually sound better in this hardware configuration. Link to comment
Popular Post littlej0e Posted January 17, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2023 55 minutes ago, di-fi said: Hi Alex (🍳)🥚🥚🥚, So replacing a fibre optic cable with a Copper Twinax SFP Cable (or DAC cable) between ER and a Fiber network card in the server could improve sound due to less power needed resulting in the lowest possible noise? I noticed some DAC cables are made for a specific brand but there are also general DAC cables. Anything to avoid for the ER? You use 7m because the ER is next to the router I suppose? My ER is next to my server so 1M should do. But I will have to give up both selected SFP (Finisar FTLF1318) modules on each side. Also when using A and B side in ER there is still galvanic isolation between ER and server. Please let us know your results. Thanks, Paul FYI, I tumbled down a similar rabbit hole a while back. The lowest power consumption + galvanic isolation always tended to yield the best results. These fiber cards consume a maximum of 1.5w (make sure you get version 2): https://www.trendnet.com/store/products/product-detail?prod=310_TEG-10GECSFP&status=view You can probably find them even cheaper from Amazon. Exocer and di-fi 2 Link to comment
littlej0e Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 4:07 PM, drjimwillie said: The SK Hynix P31 2TB is selling for $119 on Amazon, that is about $100 off the regular selling price. I picked up two of these during a similar sale a while back. The main reason I did so is they have significantly lower power consumption compared to nearly every other similarly spec'd M.2 drive on the market. However, this may have been a poor choice as one of the key design aspects of the C621E build is not restricting power the same way an ultra low power build would. Guess I'll find out soon enough. drjimwillie 1 Link to comment
littlej0e Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 Gents, I finally finished building my DIY "Faiko" server based on all the outstanding recommendations and resources in this thread. Unfortunately, I seem to be having trouble with the CPUs, motherboard, or taiko DC-ATX. I can't seem to get both CPUs running at the same time. I've swapped cables, CPUs between MB slots, ATX ports, etc., etc. but no matter what I do I can't seem to get both CPUs working at the same time. I've been through BIOS settings, but no luck thus far. I'm now combining through the MB documentation and the next step seems to be updating the firmware (if one is available). In any case, I thought it best to see if anyone has had similar issues. Relevant components are: 1 x Asus 621E motherboard 2 x Intel 4109T 1 x Taiko DC-ATX 12 x APACER 4G RAM (78.B1GN0.4000B) Thanks, - lj Link to comment
littlej0e Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 You guys are geniuses. I re-seated the CPUs again and it worked. I guess 5th times' the charm. Thanks so much for your help! 17 hours ago, ciccio1112 said: HI. Check the perfect tightening of the bolts of the heatsinks that connect with the CPUs. It takes very little for all the contacts of the CPU not to touch correctly with the motherboard socket, and therefore not seen correctly. 10 hours ago, Nenon said: +1 This is a common issue with this CPU socket. ciccio1112 1 Link to comment
Popular Post littlej0e Posted May 11, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 11, 2023 After approx. 6 months of planning and component gathering, I'm finishing up the initial build stage of my "Faiko" DIY Taiko server and I thought it best to give something back to the community that has been such an enormous help to me. Here are some of the initial lessons learned from my build: Asus C621E Sage motherboard can be a little finicky. I had troubles making contact between the CPU and MB socket LGAs (could be specific to this board in particular). Occasionally takes 2-to-3 manual power resets before the MB finally loads to the default boot order/device (again, could be specific to my board or a BIOS setting I've overlooked). Notes on Taiko DIY Chassis Kit: It's an excellent kit with a very high quality components. The chassis is huge. Be prepared. The spacing between the motherboard and the rear of the chassis is too wide (by approx. 5mm). I had to bend the ends of the PCIE brackets to fit. Rear rectangular MB access port is approx. 3mm too small with slightly rounded corners instead of squared. The rear MB port cover would not snap in without altering it (I slightly crimped all 4 corners to get it to fit). This may have been accidental during the CNC milling process or intentional to accommodate a wider range of MBs - I can only speculate. I no longer see the DIY chassis for sale on Taiko's website. Anyone know why not? Again, it's an excellent, high quality chassis kit that is perfect for these builds. Heat Pipes The kit includes 2 extra pipes, presumably because the folks at Taiko know you'll screw this up. Unfortunately, two weren't enough for me! I kept making mistakes because I didn't slow the hell down and think it through first. I ended up bending pipes multiple times in an attempt to fix said mistakes, which subsequently weakened them and caused them to break. I ultimately had to pull extras from an old HDPLEX cooling kit just to finish the build and I still ended up mangling the $h!t out of my "finished" pipes because I got too excited and didn't think it through first. Please learn from my overzealousness and carless behavior! Two simple bends are all that is required: First bend is approx. 40 - 45 degrees vertical (depending on which grooved, horizontal pipe slot you land it in on the chassis). The bend should begin at the top base of the CPU cooler assembly pointing towards the grooved side of the chassis wall. Ensure pipes run the full length of the CPU cooler before bending and/or establishing your bend point. Ideally, the pipes should protrude out of the bottom of the cooler assembly by a very small amount, say 2-to-3mm, to ensure maximum contact with the cooler. Second bend is 90 degrees horizontal in-line with the grooved wall of the chassis. The bend point will vary slightly depending on which groove slot you land it in (i.e. a pipe landing on the top groove will require slightly more length before bending than a pipe landing on the bottom groove). That's it. Don't over-think it. Don't be afraid to DIY, but be honest with yourself and calculate risk to avoid potentially expensive mistakes. For example, I knew that given a long enough timeline I could figure out how to build my own power supply. But having never built one before, I felt that using $2,500-to-$3,000 worth of components for beginner-level education was poor risk management and therefore a poor financial choice. I ended up commissioning a build from another forum member instead at an additional cost of approx. $200 in labor (Mr. Builder - you know who you are and thanks again!). Sometimes coughing up the extra $200 is better! I was harshly reminded of how little I know about RF, electromagnetic interference, dielectrics, etc. as they relate to digital audio playback. I spent hours adding tons of extra aluminum mesh, copper tape, etc. to various components and cables. It absolutely murdered the sound and staging. Don't automatically assume "MOAR IS BETTER!!!" or that people who design and build this stuff are being lazy or cheap. My penance for this hard-learned lesson was to spend even more hours of my life removing said custom shielding, then subsequently using it to mop up my audio tears. Don't rush and enjoy the process (see ridiculous heat pipe fiasco above) The most expensive option doesn't necessarily yield the best results. Trust your ears and no one else's and don't let anyone talk you out of your preferences. Audio is a hobby of nuance and nearly every component can make a difference. Don't listen to anyone that tells you otherwise. If you get stuck, don't be afraid to reach out for help (especially those in this forum). The sound is excellent as-is, especially the dynamics and control, and I haven't even finished tweaking it yet. I have personally heard only two other sources that can easily best it: A Legit Taiko Extreme A Pink Faun 2.16 Ultra Interesting side note: I privately polled others as to the average performance gap between a DIY Taiko and the real thing. Average gap reported was approx. 25%. Having A/B'd my server against a legit Taiko this past weekend, I'd say it's closer to 35%, but my system still needs more tweaking, PS burn in, a proper USB card, etc. Components list for my build: Case: Taiko DIY Case Kit w/Dual CPU coolers Motherboard: Asus WS C621E SAGE CPU: 2 x Intel 4109T (will replace with 4210's eventually) RAM: 12 x APACER 78.B1GN0.4000B RDIMM DDR4 1.2V 2400MHz 4GB CL17 Storage: 2 x SK Hynix P31 gold 2TB drive 1 x ASUS HYPER M.2 X16 GEN 4 CARD (fan is super annoying btw - might have to disable it) Network: 1 x 10 Trendnet Gigabit PCIe SFP+ Ultra Low Power Network Adapter (though I am using the ethernet port on the MB as it sounds better to my ears. Guess I need a proper network card...) Audio output: 1 x AES/EBU BNC Pink Faun PCIE card (will replace with JCAT XE or Taiko USB eventually) Power: 1 x Taiko Audio DC DC-ATX 1 x External Sean Jacobs ULPS Operating System & Software: EuphonyOS Roon or Euphony Stylus (has slightly better SQ than Roon in my opinion). Cabling: Ghent Audio 1 x 0.2m Neotech UP-OOC (PC01) 24P---24P ATX 18AWG Cable (JSSG360) Ghent Audio 1 x 0.2m Neotech UP-OOC (PC11) 8P---8P CPU/EPS 18AWG Cable (JSSG360) Ghent Audio 1 x 0.3m Neotech UP-OOC (PC11) 8P---8P CPU/EPS 18AWG Cable (JSSG360) Custom 4 pole GX16 socket to 6 pin ATX cable from a private cable manufacturer Lots of BIOS tweaks stemming from tons of trial and error! Lastly, thanks again to everyone in this forum for letting me mooch off all of the outstanding people, expertise, recommendations, and experience contained herein. It is/was very much appreciated! - lj StreamFidelity, SK8, NanoSword and 10 others 3 7 3 Link to comment
Popular Post littlej0e Posted May 12, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 12, 2023 The short answer is - I'm not sure specifically which settings will work best and I need to do more testing to see which settings will best translate between high power and low power designs. This is a non-typical build for me as I've always built sources around the core principle of achieving the lowest power draw possible. That is obviously not the case with the Faiko and I suspect this plays a significant role in the amazing dynamics, staging and presence these servers provide. I also have to be careful. I commissioned a custom server a couple of years back from someone who does this professionally and I don't want to be a dick and open their kimono without asking. That said, here are some of the preliminary BIOS settings I have implemented: - SATA ports manually disabled - USB ports manually disabled (I keep one enabled for emergencies) - Asus storage controller disabled - Ethernet port 1 manually enabled (for now, until I spring for the Taiko network card. The ultra low power SFP+ card I have sounds completely dead and lifeless). - Ethernet port 2 manually disabled - Hyperthreading enabled - Intel proprietary inter-CPU communication, enabled and hard set to 9.xx Gbps (I can't remember specifically what this is called UCT, UTC?!?) - The CPUs are hard set to power and frequency, but I can't remember the specifics (I typically do this to prevent fluctuations in power delivery). I'll post specifics when I return from my business trip. - Note: CPU pinning appears to have a tremendous effect on SQ with these builds. Beyond the simple BIOS settings above, I would focus there. - Note: Taiko has an excellent Roon configuration/optimization guide on their website. As for APACER specifically, I have 16kb ECC x 4 enabled instead of the 32 non-ECC mode (forgive me if I screwed this up - I'm not in front of my Faiko at the moment and need to double-check) Other than that, I'm running default RAM settings. But you can always undervolt the sin out of it like I typically do with low power builds. The question is whether or not this will have any tangible beneficial to SQ with this design. More to come as I need to test before I can provide any reliable guidance. Though I will say that running in Ramroot mode via Euphony vs directly on the Intel Optane 900P 280GB PCIe Card (which I lazily neglected to include in my build list above) seems to be largely a matter of preference. The 900P sounds excellent by itself. Exocer, drjimwillie, SK8 and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment
Popular Post littlej0e Posted May 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 19, 2023 Below are the notional hardware and BIOS configurations I used to build my "Faiko" or "Fake Taiko" DIY server. Hardware PCIe Card Configuration: Slot 1: Intel Optane P900 Boot Drive Slot 2: JCAT USB XE Slot 3: Open (I use this for emergency video card access. Setting is configurable in BIOS) Slot 4: Open/Expansion Slot 5: Future network card that doesn't suck Slot 6: Open/Expansion Slot 7: Asus HyperX multi-M.2 (populated w/2 x SK Hynix Gold P31 2TB low power M.2 drives) Notes: I based most of this configuration on the CPU systems architecture diagram in the Appendix section of Asus's motherboard documentation (greater physical separation between PCIe cards should also help maximize heat dissipation). In theory, this hardware configuration should help minimize motherboard bus traffic, especially bus transits, which seem to be vital for minimizing latency and noise (I also assume this is a big reason why using ramroot tends to be so effective in traditional server builds). Consequently, keeping the USB, boot and storage drives isolated to the same secondary CPU and away from the primary CPU seems to yield significant performance gains. Combining this hardware strategy with software-based CPU pinning seems to be even more effective. During normal operation, I noted CPU 1 routinely exhibited higher average operating temperatures by approx. 2°C compared to CPU2. This could be caused by variations in cooling efficiency, component placement, or overall motherboard design (i.e., the 24 pin MB power connector is located directly above CPU1). But the difference in operating temps seem to support the idea that CPU1 is indeed doing more processing on average. Asus’s CPU architecture diagram appears to support this as well. Hence, I chose CPU2 to act as the primary processer for boot and storage drives as well as the USB card (for now…more testing and reading is required). Using an external USB PCIe card seems to make a ton of sense for these builds as data calls don’t need to traverse the USB host/bus controller on the motherboard or CPU1 to get to the controller in the first place. Thereby saving both CPU cycles and bus transits. Using a network PCIe card also seems to make sense, albeit a bit less than a USB card. If you use network ports just to control Roon, occasionally upload music, or manage the server, then using the built-in ethernet is probably fine. In theory, however, a dedicated PCIe network card should be able to isolate network noise significantly better, keeping most of it contained between the PCIe bus and primary CPU. The decision to leverage a “relatively affordable” dual CPU architecture that allows for both physical and logical process pinning is one of many strokes of genius baked into this design. The further I plummet down this rabbit hole, the more convinced I become that Emile Bok is a visitor from another planet. The following settings are intended for use with the Asus WS C621E Sage motherboard based on BIOS version 6801 (download BIOS here https://www.asus.com/commercial-servers-workstations/ws-c621e-sage/helpdesk_bios/ and follow instructions to upgrade). Configurations are broken down by BIOS tab. If no changes are annotated, leave on default settings. Main Set date and time AiTweaker Ai Overclock Tuner manual 100 CPU1 & CPU2 Input Voltage set to lowest value possible, then slowly increase up to 2/3rds of the maximum reported voltage (for safety) or until you find your sweet spot for sonic performance. For example, the minimum reported voltage for my 4109T CPUs is 0.800, but I couldn't boot below 0.920 and was forced to start there. Please note that reducing CPU voltage to the floor significantly reduced dynamics and collapsed staging a bit. But it did increase clarity and significantly lowered the noise floor. Balance is key and this is merely a starting point. Find what works best for you and your system. DRAM Voltage & VCCIO More to come. Need to thoroughly investigate RAM capabilities and settings. External Digi+ Power Control More to come. This section is not for the uninitiated. You should know exactly what you are doing before playing here. Otherwise, you could damage components. Performance Tuning Optimized Performance Setting By Workload Latency Optimized Core Optimizer DISABLED Engine Boost DISABLED Power Balancer DISABLED Advanced ACPI Settings Enable ACPI Auto Configuration DISABLED Enable Hibernation DISABLED ACPI Sleep State SUSPEND DISABLED Super IO Configuration Serial Port 1 Configuration Serial Port Disabled CPU Storage Configuration PCIEx16_7 [PCIEx16_7 HYPER M.2 X16 (data)] Configure this setting to match the corresponding PCIe slot in which the Hyper M.2 drive is installed (i.e., PCIEx16_1, PCIEx16_2, etc.) You must configure this setting to use more than one M.2 drive at a time. Onboard L210 LAN Configuration Intel LAN1 Enable DISABLED Intel LAN1 ROM Type DISABLED Intel LAN2 Enable DISABLED Intel LAN2 ROM Type DISABLED Ports should only be disabled if you are using a PCIE network card. Otherwise, it is probably best to leave at least one enabled. APM Restore on AC Power Loss Power On (optional) Power On By PCIe DISABLED Power On By RTC DISABLED PCI Subsystem Settings PCI Devices Common Settings: Load RT32 Image DISABLED Above 4G Decoding DISABLED SR-IOV Support DISABLED PCI Express Device Register Settings Relaxed Ordering ENABLED Extended Tag ENABLED No Snoop ENABLED Unpopulated Links Power Off PCI OPROM Slot Options Slots 1 thru 7 DISABLED Audio Configuration DISABLED ASMedia Storage Controller DISABLED Platform Configuration PCH Configuration PCH SATA Configuration SATA Controller DISABLE All SATA Ports DISABLE These ports should only be disabled if you are not connecting any SATA devices to the motherboard. PCH eSATA Configuration DISABLE USB Configuration USB Per-Connector Disable ENABLE All USB ports DISABLE These ports should only be disabled if you are not connecting any USB devices directly to the motherboard. Runtime Error Logging System Errors DISABLE WHEA Support DISABLE Socket Configuration Processor Configuration Hyper-Threading [ALL] ENABLE Enable Intel® TXT DISABLE VMX DISABLE Enable SMX DISABLE Hardware Prefetcher DISABLE L2RFO Prefetch Disable DISABLE Adjacent Cache Prefetch DISABLE DCU Streamer Prefetcher DISABLE DCU IP Prefetcher DISABLE LLC Prefetch DISABLE DCU Mode 32KB 8Way Without ECC Extended APIC DISABLE AES-NI DISABLE UPI Configuration UPI General Configuration Link Speed Mode Fast Link Frequency Select 9.76 GT/s More testing is needed. I tend to hard set as many power and voltage settings as possible to help minimize fluctuations in power delivery. But this setting seems particularly interesting and "fiddle worthy" given its ability to restrict chatter/direct electrical transference between CPUs. Memory Configuration Memory Frequency 2400MHz I set this based on Intel's recommended maximum memory speed of 2400MHz for the 4109T CPUs (same goes for 4210 CPUs btw). So much more testing and recommendations are needed here! RAM can certainly be under volted, but I haven't done so yet as the kit I’m using is already designed to run on low voltage. I want to test RAM mirroring between CPU DIMM sets (yep, it’s a thing in BIOS). It will almost certainly send latency through the roof and adversely affect SQ, but I think it's still worth testing. IIO Configuration Intel® VT for Directed I/O (VT-d) DISABLED Advanced Power Management Configuration CPU P State Control Turbo Mode DISABLED CPU T State Control Software Controlled T-States DISABLED Event Logs Change Smbios Event Log Settings Smbios Event Log DISABLED Monitor CPU FAN1&2 FRNT FAN1 Mode Manual 0 FRNT FAN2&3 Mode Manual 0 FRNT FAN4&5 Mode Manual 0 REAR FAN1&2 Mode Manual 0 Security Secure Boot DISABLED Boot Bootup NumLock Stage Off (this annoys the bejeezus out of me. Don’t Judge!) Boot Option Priorities Boot Option #1 Select OS installed on Intel P900 drive Save & Exit Save Profile Select profile slot from list Name Profile “Sippin’ Power Baseline” or something equally ridiculous that will remind you exactly what this profile is built for. OK Save Changes and Reset OK Notes Disclaimer - The aforementioned BIOS settings are not perfect, complete, or guaranteed to yield better sound quality. My goal is to provide a relatively safe "electrical minimum" starting point at which DIY folks can tinker and build their own configs. Please view this list for what it is; a series of notional settings and guidelines, not rules, that very well may turn out to be completely worthless. I HIGHLY recommend enabling/disabling each of these settings one at a time, then qualifying each with your own listening tests. You can then tweak your system according to YOUR ears, on YOUR gear, to suit YOUR preferences. Do the work. It is almost always worth it in the end. Disabling/enabling all settings listed above seems to yield a significant decrease in overall SQ (especially dynamics and presence), but there does appear to be some legitimate benefits to combining some variation of both "minimum power" and "controlled power" design methodologies. For example, killing all unnecessary background processes and hardware like SATA, USB, virtualization services, error logging, etc. seems to lower the noise floor quite substantially. Which tends to give the impression of a "blacker background" and illusion of better separation as a result. Please remember that Taiko doesn't necessarily enable/disable any of these settings. It would be great if someone with a legit Taiko Extreme could chime in with some BIOS settings (it also wouldn’t shock me to learn that Taiko uses a custom, or heavily modified, version of BIOS for their builds). EuphonyOS - Try using the Intel Optane P900 boot drive instead of ramroot with EuphonyOS. The P900 sounds significantly better to my ears. It’s not even close. I plan to experiment more with Windows IoT, AudioLinux, etc. in the future. However, based on what I’ve read in this thread, Windows IoT is the OS to beat and can sound even better than Euphony. Though it does seem to require significantly more manual process tweaking and a bit more effort to maintain. No annual subscription cost though… Versatility - In my humble opinion, the best part about this server is versatility. Through the simple swapping of hardware components or changing software/BIOS settings, you can tweak the sound to suit a wide range of tastes and desired performance levels. I don't know of another COTS (Commercial Off-The-Shelf) or DIY server recipe that can match that. Cost - All in, I spent just over 12k on this build and devoted months to methodically scrounging for used parts in classifieds, eBay, etc. to keep costs down. I’m guessing the average build cost falls somewhere in the neighborhood of 15-18k USD, depending on selected components. Gun to my head, if I had to do it all over again I would likely go this same route. But I think it depends on your personal goals: People with true "mid-fi/wanna-be-hi-fi" systems like me can probably extract the most value from these builds as the source is usually one of the last components to be upgraded and is often the weakest link of most systems at this level. As a point of reference, the total cost of my audio system is approx. 80k. I spent it as wisely as I knew how and my system is chock-full of ultra-high-end components from the early 2,000s (you may want to consider this approach if you are looking for a dash of champagne flavor in your discount beer. You’d be astounded by the level of performance you can achieve for far less money). If you currently have, or plan to build, a true top-of-the-line audio system (or think you might in the future), I would recommend buying a legit Taiko instead. The extra 20'ish% bump in performance you'll get with a legit Taiko could be massive depending on what you have around it. Plus, you'll get all the Taiko awesomesauce like custom OS/software, tweaks, support, warranty, future upgrades, etc. Lastly, feel free to add, change, delete, correct, repost or distribute any of this as you see fit. In the end, the goal here is to help the community…not harm it by hording information. - lj SK8, BTO, NanoSword and 10 others 11 2 Link to comment
littlej0e Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 I just acquired a license for Win 10 Ent IoT 2021 (thanks for the guide to obtaining a legit license through Avantech btw) to compare with Euphony 4 on my DIY Faiko. I wanted see if there are any proven recommendations for software optimization tools. I'm not asking for specific optimizations mind you, as I remember reading that Nenon & Co. will post a guide at some point in the future. I'm only asking for consensus recommendations for tools. I'm used to gutting and trimming Windows manually, which is a supreme PITA, so I'm all about investing in something that can make my life significantly easier (and hopefully survive Windows updates). Based on my reading thus far, Process Lasso seems like the de facto standard and an absolute no-brainer for this use case. But I also see other options like Audiophile Optimizer (which may or may not support Win 10 IoT?!?), Fidelizer, XXHighEnd, etc.. Some of these seem additive to PL while others appear to be semi drop-in replacements. From an IT perspective, all of these add-ons (save for PL) make me nervous. Most seem like they are run by lone wolf devs that slap a GUI over a series of glorified PowerShell scripts, which makes me instantly wary of their ability to support said fancy pants scripts over term. Does anyone use any of these, or other, tools with their DIY Taiko that can share any feedback or experiences? drjimwillie 1 Link to comment
Popular Post littlej0e Posted May 24, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2023 Quote littlej0e, Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!! @tuochongle You are quite welcome, sir! It's the least I could do considering how much this thread, and many people in it, have helped me build my DIY Taiko. Remember...all of those BIOS settings are just options - NOT GUIDELINES. Play with them methodically and see what works best for you on your system. Don't try enabling all at once as your MB will almost certainly fail to boot and you will need to clear the CMOS to start over. lwr and MarcelNL 2 Link to comment
Popular Post littlej0e Posted May 24, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2023 I had a chance to compare my Windows build vs Euphony and thought I would provide some knee-jerk feedback. @Nenon's recommendations for optimization tools were absolutely spot on. Both NTLite and Process Lasso are phenomenal tools for general IT baboonery, but especially for this use case. NTLite in particular, is shockingly useful in my professional life as well. A million thanks to you, sir. Yet again. EuphonyOS should be the de facto "easy button" recommendation for minimally tech savvy folks, or people that don't want to fiddle with things and just have it work. Euphony is outstanding for what it is and was rock solid stable in my rig. However, one of it's greatest strengths also seems to be it's greatest weakness - lack of shell access severely limits your ability to tweak. Though CPU affinities are semi-configurable through the web GUI and this will likely improve in the future. Cost breakdown: 120€ (approx. $130) annual subscription license. No "buy once, cry once" lifetime license available for version 4. Hardware fingerprinting. You have to submit a support ticket to migrate your license to another machine, or if you upgrade/swap out a component. This gets very old, very quick - especially for someone that builds a lot of machines or likes to do A/B testing between components in the same rig. Always online requirement. This royally pissed me off when I accidentally discovered it. You have up to "100 checks" that can fail reaching back to Euphony's license authentication servers before your installation reverts back to a trial license. For the uninitiated, this is basically Euphony's DRM solution and I have a major axe to grind with it. Not in theory, but in practice. For example, let's say you happen to live high up in the mountains and lost power to your rig while you were away on a multi-week business trip. When you finally returned, you poured a glass of whiskey and sat down in your favorite listening chair, ready to relax and listen to some music. You press play, and after 20 seconds playback cuts off because your installation reverted back to the trial version while you were away, rendering your server completely useless - M0th#$% F#*@ING $#&T B@#!s A#@ P&$^!!! I had to submit a ticket with a refreshed hardware fingerprint to re-license my server. Which means I had to wait 24+ hours before I could use it again or subsequently listen to music. I both understand and appreciate the dev(s) need to protect their product and all of their hard work. I also realize this is/was a very niche' situation. But holding peoples' rigs hostage, for any reason, is one of the quickest ways to lose a customer. Fool me once... All of my personal b1tching aside, Euphony has a truly excellent suite of products, that also includes players and upscalers. Strictly from an SQ perspective, I found Stylus Player to be superior to Roon. All told, Euphony is probably the best "easy button" suite of high performance audio software that I've tried. Windows-based deployments should be the de facto standard for achieving the absolute best sound quality possible. Thus far, W10IoTE has either tied or beat Euphony in nearly every category. It still trails a bit in noise floor, decay, separation and stage depth. But I obviously still have a lot of optimization and tweaking left to do. Cost breakdown: 140€ (approx. $150) for Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (lifetime). 40€ (approx. $45) for NTLite (lifetime, but you can renew annually for feature updates). 35€ (approx. $40) for Process Lasso (lifetime). Lots of time spent jumping through hoops, learning, fiddling, trial-and-error, etc. Quantify this however you wish. @SK8 given the success I'm having with W10IoTE, I will almost certainly try Win11PE. Appreciate the recommendation. As always, I hope this helps someone. - lj Nenon, StreamFidelity, Exocer and 5 others 1 6 1 Link to comment
littlej0e Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 6 hours ago, c-w said: Yes, If you leave your Euphony machine running and you lost internet connection it will revert back to unregistered status after some time but you don't have to open ticket to "re-register" - just restart the application once you establish internet connection - it should find your registration online and set "registered" status again (in V4, V3 will need you to enter registration code again). Only if your fingerprint changed you have to contact support to update it. This was my understanding as well, but my hardware fingerprint somehow reset while I was away without anyone or anything touching my rig. I therefore concluded that it had to be the online requirement. If not, then this raises even more troubling questions as to what could have caused the hardware fingerprint to reset in the first place. It had to be some effectual combination of losing power, losing internet and/or time as the hardware never changed and no components failed. Regardless of the cause, the end result was the same - I couldn't use my server until I registered it again. I must say that Euphony support is/was excellent and very responsive. But in the end, my server and my ability to listen to music were held hostage by my operating system software. Euphony is excellent and I assume that my situation is an exceptionally rare occurrence. But hopefully the dev(s) can tweak the licensing enforcement a bit to ensure this sort of thing can no longer happen as it can cause tremendous frustration. Link to comment
Popular Post littlej0e Posted May 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2023 13 minutes ago, MarcelNL said: did you try Linux based OS/players too? I'm hoping to get to the point where I can arrange an OS shooutout , so far I've tested a lot but haphazerdly and Daphile still comes out on top....will do some more testing once my build is near final (if such a point does exist) I did indeed. Euphony is actually Linux based (arch, I think). I also tried AudioLinux, which I was quite fond of, as well as Windows 10 IoT Enterprise 2021 and Windows Server 2019 (I'm reinstalling server 2019 as we speak to compare with W10IoTE 2021). Most Windows OSs I've tried tend to sound a bit warmer to me for whatever reason, while Linux OSs tend to sound a bit cleaner and more clinical with slightly better staging. As always, YMMV and it really depends on what you like, what you are looking for, and what you are most comfortable using and supporting. Have fun comparing them all for yourself! This whole audio hobby is quite the addiction... Altec, MarcelNL and lwr 2 1 Link to comment
littlej0e Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Exocer said: I regret missing my opportunity to own a Taiko chassis, but I am holding out hope for when/if HDplex release a full-size Fanless chassis. Also, I may ultimately stick with two separate chassis long-term. It has served me very well. The DIY chassis is high quality to be sure, but some of the tolerances were maddening. I never assumed I would have to mod a DIY chassis to get PCIE cards to fit properly. Truth is, I went with an external power supply design and don't even need the Taiko DIY chassis. I only purchased one because I wanted to support Taiko supporting the DIY community. I guess the juice isn't worth the squeeze for them anymore, if it ever was in the first place. Hit me up if you really want a Taiko DIY chassis. I wouldn't mind swapping it out with someone that will actually leverage all the space and design considerations it provides. Exocer 1 Link to comment
Popular Post littlej0e Posted May 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2023 40 minutes ago, JJSim said: For their new SG10 Streacom partnered with Calyos, which has an interesting portfolio of products. Their "2-phase" cooling solutions are particularly intriguing for use in DIY servers, by using a refrigerant instead of water in a 100% passive system without the need for a pump to circulate the fluid. https://www.calyos-tm.com/technologies/loop-heat-pipes It doesn't appear they have any off the shelf products, so anything they offer would be custom made and probably very expensive. 21 minutes ago, JJSim said: Conceptually, yes. Although the use of a refrigerant instead of water is unique. Utilizing a dedicated condenser in a closed-loop system is also different than the traditional use of a metal chassis wall acting as a heatsink. Only first hand experience will tell if this solution is a viable alternative to present offerings. Turemetal released their passive chassis a while ago, and then Taiko developed an effective solution with their heatpipe coolers. Now THIS is interesting... I did some testing this past weekend with a couple of higher core Gold and Platinum CPUs. Most ended up beating the 4109Ts, 4110s, 4210s, and 4214s quite handily in nearly every category, save for naturalness and texture (Taiko/Emile definitely new what they were doing using the 4210s). Differences between some of the CPUs were not small. Unfortunately, the higher core CPUs cannot operate exclusively using passive cooling on the Taiko DIY chassis (without tripling or quadrupling the heat sink surface area at a minimum). I ended up using active cooling with external fans/fan controller hooked up to a separate power supply just so I could test other CPUs without melting my rig. The results were so promising, however, that I am now considering purchasing a dedicated, externally controlled/monitored/powered liquid cooling chassis (which means my music server would then be comprised of three separate chassis because...stupid lol. Perhaps I should call this build "The Faiko Extreme - Extra Chromosome Edition"). In any case, there does appear to be a loose, but tangible, correlation between core count and audio performance specific to Roon. Though to what degree and how well it scales, I'm not really sure. Emile's design proved that high power servers can achieve equal, or better, performance compared to low power. So I can't help but wonder what would happen if we take Taiko's design methodology a step further and combine it with an even higher power ULPS and higher core count CPUs. Could we achieve performance beyond that of a legit Taiko Extreme? Seems worth investigating seeing as DIY'rs have the luxury of not being constrained by commercial viability. Any idea what the "real world" heat dissipation/relative performance is of the Calyos solution(s)? They seem to support up to 2 x 350W CPUs, but I'm always skeptical. Exocer, Töki and JJSim 3 Link to comment
littlej0e Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 2 hours ago, JJSim said: Thanks for reporting your findings. It's long been a topic of debate over low core/power CPU's vs high core/power CPU's. Looking at the market of music servers available today, you can see the division between the two ideologies. The question always remains, however–how much is too much? Even a 12-core CPU is left twiddling its thumbs under a normal music playback workload (save for upsampling in HQPlayer). You can argue that even with extreme core counts and TDP, with such a small workload placed on the CPU it will draw less power and generate less heat than it's rated for. And having more cores allows for the workload to be distributed more evenly across the cores. But at what point is there diminishing returns? There are also opponents and proponents of active cooling. On one hand active cooling can create vibrations and noise (both audible and electrical) that are detrimental to sound quality. On the other hand high temperatures can put greater stress on components, and keeping components at a lower temperature can improve sound quality. The best approach is a well implemented passive cooling system that is capable of dissipating the total amount of heat produced by the server. This is also the most difficult to develop. Taiko put much effort into developing the heatpipe system in the Extreme. But sometimes additional cooling is still needed. Taiko had to redesign their network card to include a copper heatsink as the cards were shutting down due to high temperatures. This buildup of heat inside the chassis can have a parasitic affect on the entire server. Active cooling, even in the form of an externally powered fan blowing air over the components, can have a positive result on sound quality. Excellent info, thank you very much! I also hope I didn't inadvertently kick a hornets nest with the high power/vs low power argument. I only wanted to report what I personally tested as many of the results were not subtle. As a result, I can't help but stand firmly in the "more cores = more better" camp, but my sample size/e-peen is small and inexperienced. As for the question of, "how much is too much?", increasing core counts seems to scale linearly with user insanity - haha! Seems like striving to answer the "why" behind core counts with lower cost components is more a sane approach than spending between 4-6k for the highest core count CPUs that will run under the maximum wattage supported by the C621e motherboard. I wish I could personally investigate this further, but unfortunately I lack the time, tools, talent, and inclination to do so. Specifically regarding power, you hit the nail on the head - it's all about real world utilization and desired outcomes for this specific use case. The highest core CPUs I tested were 20 core Xeon Gold 6148s, which are rated at 150W under constant load. My rig momentarily peaked at approx. 170W during startup, then settled in at approx. 112W during normal operation (approx. 105W when undervolted the CPUs to 1.47V). Taking into account Intel's notional CPU power ratings and my recorded start up draw, I set a theoretical 150W-per-CPU maximum for testing other CPUs specifically with this ULPS (officially rated max around 200W). Using said estimated theoretical formula, the highest core CPU currently available that could safely pair with this ULPS is the 26 core Xeon Platinum 8164. This CPU also happens to be rated at 150W, discontinued, cheap, and readily available. A have a pair on the way for testing as we speak. The startup draw seems to be the biggest hurdle to using higher core CPUs with this ULPS design and as you stated - it's anyone's guess if doing so will result in a tangible increase in performance. Cooling is the other fly in the ointment, as you stated. Running tests with active air cooling was a total PITA due to fan noise, though this did have the added benefit of cooling other components in the chassis. However, removing heat directly from the CPUs and quickly removing it from the chassis should help prevent components from overheating as opposed to dumping it back and locking it in with passive cooling. This is why I am considering using a 100% external water cooling solution. All pumps, controls, gauges, radiators, fans, etc. are contained within an external chassis, so coolant flowing across the CPUs should be the only noise introduced...which unfortunately still could be significant. I'm almost certain you are right about passive cooling being the optimal solution. But to support high core CPUs kicking off this much heat I would have to run heat pipes through the chassis directly to a giant external copper brick or design a different chassis cooling solution all together. This is why the Calyos solutions are so intriguing. I submitted an inquiry, though I'm almost certain it will be prohibitively expensive as you stated...and may or may not completely solve the problem in the first place. Do you, or anyone else, have any other ideas? Link to comment
littlej0e Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 15 minutes ago, BOBO said: do you guys do any tweaks on RAM timings, or you just run on auto ? At a minimum, manually set your RAM speed to match the recommended speed with your CPUs (i.e. 2400MHz, 2600MHz, etc.). For example, if you are using Xeon 4210s your RAM should be set to 2400Mhz. Also, depending on your RAM type and capability, you can try playing with (under) voltage, CAS latency, etc. but only if you know exactly what you are doing. Link to comment
littlej0e Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 13 hours ago, flkin said: Have you considered external, active cooling through the sucking action of a fan? Not touching the streamer nor electrical in the same circuit. I float a suction fan on the outside and above my streamer’s CPU and the hot air extracted is significant. This is an interesting idea...and no, I hadn't considered it! Fan noise is my concern with this approach, but that could be minimized with the right configuration. Then it becomes a question of how much air flow it will take to keep the CPUs at a reasonable temperature. My test setup is using four 120mm noctuas (two of which are industrial grade running at 2k rpm) and it is LOUD. 12 hours ago, MarcelNL said: you can design your own passive cooling system, but you'll have to bend your own heatpipes and route your heatsink....two large -ish 300W heatsinks should be perfectly capable of taking care of around 125W TDP CPU's What TDP are you looking at? 150W minimum. I would love to go for 195W to support max wattage for the MB, but that's a pipe dream as I would need to upgrade my power supply. The problem is cooling, specifically the compounding heat effect as @JJSim mentioned. Passive systems (at least this one) dump heat back into the chassis and if the chassis can't dissipate it fast enough, it keeps building on itself. I did a couple of quick heat propagation tests this morning: It took just over 4 minutes for two 150W CPUs to exceed 70C from room temperature (approx. 18C) Approx. 17 minutes for one CPU to exceed 70C from room temperature. Unfortunately, the amount of passive cooling required to support these higher TDP CPUs likely exceeds both the available space and dissipation capabilities of in the Taiko DIY chassis. Best idea I can think of is replacing the top chassis panel with an enormous, finned copper slab. I assume the biggest challenges with this approach would be: Ensuring proper heat transfer between the existing grooved side panel of the Taiko chassis and the proposed top panel copper heat sink. In theory, a handful of copper "L" brackets adhered (screwed?) to both the inside of the Taiko chassis and top panel should do the trick. It would make far more sense to land the CPU heat pipes directly on the top copper panel, but then taking it apart becomes a supreme PITA. Pray this doesn't lock even more heat and cook literally everything inside chassis. Perhaps include some venting holes and a priest? Given the cost, I would likely be better off designing a completely new chassis all together. The more I think about it, the more an external water cooling solution makes sense. I just worry water flowing across the CPUs will generate unwanted vibrations. Perhaps it's the lesser of two evils as opposed to running everything at higher temps than they should be. FYI, this is likely what I would use: https://shop.alphacool.com/en/shop/water-cooling-sets/external-sets/11932-alphacool-es-orbiter-360-ts Was just launched a couple of months ago. Link to comment
littlej0e Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, baconbrain said: Perhaps cooling one CPU per heatsink / side of the Taiko chassis? Indeed. That's why I tested a single CPU from ambient to max temp, but had to shut it down after it exceeded 70C after approx. 17 minutes. The cold truth is, I should ditch the high cores, keep using the 4210s, be happy and stfu. Otherwise, I'll have to use water cooling or a different chassis all together. The TDPs are just too high. Exocer 1 Link to comment
Popular Post littlej0e Posted August 10, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 10, 2023 1 minute ago, SK8 said: I think I will buy 2 used Xeon Gold 6148 to try delidding later. I remember @littlej0e mentioned that higher cores count resulting in better audio performance in his tests. These Xeons were dismantled from retired servers so they are really cheap, about US$50 per chip. Yes, sir...given the dirt cheap price, I think you are making a fine choice with Gold 6148s! I've been running those for a while along with Platinum 8164s. I refrained from posting further details here as to not derail the thread and/or rock the boat:-) If you are starting from a base dual 4210 system, please consider: Power. Higher core CPUs can draw considerably more power, especially at startup. You will need a power supply that can efficiently handle 200W to 260W at startup and 110W to 180W constant depending on PCIE load and other options. I believe the max recommended CPU voltage per-socket on the Sage board is 205W. But given the high cost of these components, I personally don't want to get anywhere close to that unless there is a safe and reliable sonic benefit of doing so. Cooling. The passive CPU cooling system included with the Taiko DIY chassis simply couldn't handle the heat from the higher core CPUs (especially under Windows tweaked with selective real-time kernel processing). I ended up trying all sorts of crazy alternatives; suspended fan arrays, heat absorbing gel pads, etc. until I arrived on a custom water-cooling solution. It works beautifully and offers more precise CPU temperature control, but a well-engineered passive cooling system is still definitely the way to go. Economics. In theory, people could run a single 6148 without taxing their existing power supply designed for 4210s. I personally haven't tried running/optimizing a single CPU on this board. Perhaps it would offer nothing, but trying is half the fun! Hope they work in your server with your ears in your system. StreamFidelity, SK8 and baconbrain 2 1 Link to comment
Popular Post littlej0e Posted August 11, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 11, 2023 9 hours ago, baconbrain said: Interesting, would you mind sharing a few details? Absolutely, but keep in mind I do no recommend going this route. The water cooling system requires semi-regular maintenance and a passive cooling design is just better and safer. I'll send pictures in a couple of weeks when I return from my business trip. The problem with the vast majority of traditional all-in-one (AIO) water coolers is they are designed with the pump housing coupled directly to the CPU cooling block. This combined with active radiator fans transfers a lot of vibration to the chassis. After experimenting with some alternatives, the best solution I found was to use an external industrial-grade cooler that allowed for de-coupling of the pumps, fans and radiators from the chassis. This doesn't remove all vibration, but gets pretty darn close. The main benefits of this approach are: You can use any CPU you wish, up to the max voltage supported by the motherboard. I'm using two Platinum 8164 w/26C/150W each, but the Gold 6148s/20C/150W seem to be the sweet spot. Offers more precise CPU temperature control. I haven't experimented with finding sonically optimal CPU temps yet, but it's on my to do list. Allows for experimentation with CPU overclocking (though I discovered underclocking to the lowest achievable base clock tends to result in the best sound). Allows for integrated upsampling with HQPlayer. However, just because you can, doesn't mean you should! Upsampling generates a lot of noise and can substantially degrade audio performance at this level. The right way to implement upsampling in this scenario would be to use a separate upscalling machine all together (i.e. a bastardized, but much more powerful, DIY version of a Chord M-scaler). Allows for dual use of the server as a screaming fast PGGB 256 processing machine (hint: use separate BIOS and Process Lasso profiles for this as PGGB tends to consume all available resources during processing and will melt your server if you aren't careful!!!). Lastly, I must reiterate the drawbacks to water cooling are many. Go passive...it is much safer and sounds better. That said, the full inventory for my cooling system is below. These components were specifically chosen for durability and longevity: Item # Description Link Qty Unit Price Price 1020341 Alphacool ES Orbiter 360 TS (11932) https://modmymods.com/alphacool-es-orbiter-360-ts-11932.html 1 $499.95 External cooler $ 499.95 1022693 Alphacool Eisblock XPX Pro Aurora - Full Brass Black Digital RGB (13084) https://modmymods.com/alphacool-eisblock-xpx-pro-aurora-full-brass-black-digital-rgb-13084.html 2 $135.00 CPU blocks $ 270.00 1021503 Alphacool EPDM Tube 16/10 - Black 3m (9,84ft) Retailbox (18642) https://modmymods.com/alphacool-epdm-tube-16-10-black-3m-9-84ft-retailbox-18642.html 1 $19.70 tubing $ 19.70 1011163 Alphacool Eiszapfen 3/8" ID x 5/8" OD G1/4 Compression Fitting - Black Sixpack (17234) https://modmymods.com/alphacool-eiszapfen-3-8-id-x-5-8-od-g1-4-compression-fitting-black-sixpack-17234.html 2 $39.95 Compression fittings $ 79.90 1017122 Alphacool Eiszapfen Quick Release Male Bulkhead G1/4 Inner Thread - Deep Black (17463) https://modmymods.com/alphacool-eiszapfen-quick-release-male-bulkhead-g1-4-inner-thread-deep-black-17463.html 1 $13.90 QDC w/ bulkhead $ 13.90 1017124 Alphacool Eiszapfen Quick Release Female Bulkhead G1/4 Inner Thread - Deep Black (17459) https://modmymods.com/alphacool-eiszapfen-quick-release-female-bulkhead-g1-4-inner-thread-deep-black-17459u.html 1 $18.75 QDC w/ bulkhead $ 18.75 1017119 Alphacool Eiszapfen Quick Release Male G1/4 Inner Thread - Deep Black (17461) https://modmymods.com/alphacool-eiszapfen-quick-release-male-g1-4-inner-thread-deep-black-17461.html 1 $15.95 QDC $ 15.95 1017120 Alphacool Eiszapfen Quick Release Female G1/4 Inner Thread - Deep Black (17457) https://modmymods.com/alphacool-eiszapfen-quick-release-female-g1-4-inner-thread-deep-black-17457.html 1 $18.75 QDC $ 18.75 1022489 Alphacool Eiszapfen L-Connector Rotatable G1/4 OT to G1/4 IT - Black - Four Pack (17615) https://modmymods.com/alphacool-eiszapfen-l-connector-rotatable-g1-4-ot-to-g1-4-it-black-four-pack-17615.html 1 $28.00 might want more 90s $ 28.00 1011889 Alphacool Eisfluegel G1/4 Square Flow Meter - Acetal (17350) https://modmymods.com/alphacool-eisfluegel-g1-4-square-flow-meter-acetal-17350.html 1 $16.75 flow indicator (optional) $ 16.75 MOD-0275 ModMyMods ModWater PC Coolant- Clear – 1 Liter (MOD-0275) https://modmymods.com/modmymods-modwater-pc-coolant-clear-1-liter-mod-0275.html 4 $9.97 Coolant $ 39.88 Subtotal $ 1,021.53 Zaphod Beeblebrox and baconbrain 2 Link to comment
littlej0e Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 1 hour ago, baconbrain said: Wow, thanks for the very detailed response! How loud is the orbiter? You are quite welcome! The orbiter is very quiet. The pump and fans are barely audible unless you are overclocking, using HQPlayer, PGGB, etc. To be clear, the orbiter is way, way overkill for this use cases and that was by design. During normal operation w/undervolted CPUs, the pump and fans run at the very low end of their capability. This results in "near-passive" operation of the orbiter while minimizing vibration transfer to the server chassis as much as possible. In other words, I specifically chose to use a Porsche as a pace car traveling at 30kph and pray it doesn't blow up from underutilization - lol. For reference, I can't hear the orbiter over my air-cooled work PC during normal use. But if you are highly sensitive to noise, one of those freaks that listens to music in an anechoic chamber, or just don't want to risk hearing a single decibel...you could try replacing the stock fans with Noctuas (I think the orbiter uses "be quiet!" fans by default) or try disabling the fans all together (gven the high cooling efficiency of this loop design, very low pump utilization, and the thermal mass of the internal radiators, I suspect you could get away with disabling the fans...though I haven't tested it.). baconbrain 1 Link to comment
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