Building a DIY Music Server

[MarcelNL]

I will play aorund, at this point I do not feel the sonic fingerprint of my interpretation of the CLCLC is lean or bass heavy, I'd say my system is full scale ;-) 

 

The high power Saligny active rectifier is a step up for sure! Still breaking in...

[Nenon]

More capacitance on the output leads to lower output impedance. Lower output impedance gives you more dynamics, slam, etc. So, while technically more caps in parallel might be "slower" in some applications, in this particular application the lower output impedance compensates for other artifacts. I've learned not to apply what works best in analog power supplies to digital power supplies. In fact, that's the main reason why so many digital components don't sound good. There are completely different problems we need to address in digital and many designers just apply whatever they have learned from designing analog products to digital. Ah, how did I even get to that?!

 

With the ULPS we can hear the effects of replacing 4 inches of wire or even the connector on the wire connecting the caps in parallel. Yes, I was shocked that using Mundorf terminal ring connectors on just one of the wires had an audible effect. 

The chokes we add to the ULPS (two chokes in v3 and one choke in v2) are huge coils of crappy wire. In fact, it's 15 meters of 16 AWG wire:

(yes, I did that)

 

So if 4 inches of wire or a connector between the capacitors matter, what about the 30 meters of crappy wire in v3? It definitely has an effect on transparency. But taking care of all that ripple (and whatever else those chokse do) gives you a different perspective on how digital can sound. The immersiveness and the huge wide but also deep soundstage well beyond the wall boundaries is something I haven't been able to unhear once heard.

 

V3 may not be the best version for everyone. There are v1, v2, and v3 of the ULPS, and I have tried to encourage people to try all of them. And once you have that base line, feel free to experiment with other parts and designs. 

[MarcelNL]

BTW; my current version is an adaptation of V3, three 47.000uF chokes and two Lundahl Chokes in CMR, adding another 20.000uF to the last C did nothing for sound, the bypasses did plenty!

(the Saligny also!)

[MarcelNL]

@Nenon I agree, My theory is that the CPU needs power NOW yet it may only need power for a very short moment, after all it's not a class A amp(let's not open the can of worms if that is a SS or tube amp)...

 

Get a nice choke, have one made using amorphous iron....using decent wire, heck a custom choke or two won't break the bank after investing in this project ;-)

 

I noticed Taiko is using Lundahl, that is a start, there are better chokes too, provided there is enough time to try all variations.

[Nenon]

@prinz I just found my old post from over an year ago:

On 5/16/2021 at 10:44 AM, Nenon said:

The first version (aka v1) is very simple. You have an IEC inlet --> Fuse --> Soft start --> Transformer --> Mosfet rectifier --> Output connector. The version gives you very clean, fast, and transparent sound, but it does not have the body and the full expansive sound as the other two versions. Can too transparent and too fast be a problem? I think it's way too fast and transparent, hence the additional components in the other two versions. But it's all about personal taste. Some may like that version more. 

I think I agree with that description :). 

BTW, the reason you don't see a capacitor mentioned here is because there is one on the Taiko rectifier PCB board. 

[Exocer]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

@prinz I just found my old post from over an year ago:

I think I agree with that description :). 

BTW, the reason you don't see a capacitor mentioned here is because there is one on the Taiko rectifier PCB board. 

Does this mean we’re all missing a cap in Saligny based V2/V3 builds?

[Tubeman66]

any time schedule when / if the rectifier will be available

[MarcelNL]

6 hours ago, Exocer said:

Does this mean we’re all missing a cap in Saligny based V2/V3 builds?

The way I read it is that the Taiko active rectifier has a capacitor on board, so technically it's a transformer-rectifier-capacitor PSU when connected straight to the Taiko ATX module.

 

The Saligny recifier does not include a capacitor and specs say it needs at least like a 1000uF (do check)...so to compare apples to oranges we would have to add that minimal capacitance and stick the Saligny output into the Taiko ATX and listen. Lacking the Taiko rectifier that would be a exercise in futility.

 

 

 

[prinz]

10 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

Yes, that's V1. If transparency is top priority, you can't beat that. A bit lean sounding for me and not as immersive as I would like it to be. Maybe good for a small nearfield bookshelf speakers system but not for a big full scale system in my experience. 

I am curious what amps/speakers you are using @prinz.

 

I use Harbeth 40.0 Mastering Monitor

Regarding amps, two months ago I sold Ypsilon Phaethon integrated and moved to Circle Labs P300 pre + M200 power amp (these are absolutely amazing for me as a former tube lover).

https://highfidelity.pl/@main-1140&lang=en

[prinz]

9 hours ago, Nenon said:

@prinz I just found my old post from over an year ago:

I think I agree with that description :). 

BTW, the reason you don't see a capacitor mentioned here is because there is one on the Taiko rectifier PCB board. 

 

OK. I understand.

In my build I skip the fuse and soft start, but it's true if you want to stay on the super safe side it's better to keep them.

 

I will never say that my point of view is the absolute best, I play with audio for years and faced hundreds of times that what works for one, doesnt have to work for others. It's normal :)

Luckliy for us all, we have a nice playground for tests. I want to share what worked for me.

 

My PSU does not sound lean, actually If it would - I would throw it away quickly :). I love full, massive, full bodied, colorfull sound.

I didnt used these mosfet bridge and have no idea how they work, but generally speaking I could face slower sound due to the fact that schottky bridge which I use is very smooth sounding, but it is not the fastest one, which means it could be difficult for the bridge to "charge" 200kuf of capacitance. Who knows.

on the other hand, what is slow for me can be lightning fast for others and opposite.

 

Last thing I want to check is if replacing Mlytic with Kemet ALS70 will bring the improvement for me. I am awaiting delivery.

[prinz]

11 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

I hear what you are saying, listening tests are important, and more so than what the simulation shows!

At some point I want to hear what a tube rectifier PSU does with the Taiko ATX...I only am beginning to play around with the PSU yet it clearly has quite an impact where it should not have on a CPU ;-)

 

 

tube rectifier PSU for high A current?

Can you please share more details about the design?

 

I ask as regular tubes in full wave rectifier mode can offer 300mA of constant current. If you use four tubes in greatz mode you can get around 1-1.5A max, but for PC audio use you probably need 5A minimum.

[MarcelNL]

2 hours ago, prinz said:

tube rectifier PSU for high A current?

Can you please share more details about the design?

 

I ask as regular tubes in full wave rectifier mode can offer 300mA of constant current. If you use four tubes in greatz mode you can get around 1-1.5A max, but for PC audio use you probably need 5A minimum.

At this stage it's just an idea, and probably going to be extremely wasteful due to the heater power needed but I still want to hear it. There are a few rectifiers capable of higher currents, I'm aware of the power need ;-) Oh and eehh,  no Graetz... likely we'll be using paralleled rectifier tubes in the return side.

 

When the time comes I'll report results, it'll probably look like a mad scientist lab.

[sakso136]

4 hours ago, prinz said:

 

I use Harbeth 40.0 Mastering Monitor

Regarding amps, two months ago I sold Ypsilon Phaethon integrated and moved to Circle Labs P300 pre + M200 power amp (these are absolutely amazing for me as a former tube lover).

https://highfidelity.pl/@main-1140&lang=en

Do you mike the circle lab better than phaeton????

[prinz]

49 minutes ago, sakso136 said:

Do you mike the circle lab better than phaeton????

They are different in presentation. Phaethon is delicate, subtle, it is voiced to be very high resolution oriented, but lacks body, warmth and power. I still liked Phaethon more than shitty Air Tight ATM-211 tube monos I had before, but if we speak about Circle Labs - for me - they are simply amazing.

Speaker drive ability which I never experienced before, combined with warmth, body, constant foot tapping :), energy, high resolution.

All I can dream off.  Imagine yourself a really great sounding tube amp with almost unlimited power, zero distortion and without the need to replace tubes.

wholeheartedly recomended.

 

I dont want to make more offtopic, so If you have other questions please send me PM

[RickyV]

8 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

The Saligny recifier does not include a capacitor and specs say it needs at least like a 1000uF (do check)...so to compare apples to oranges we would have to add that minimal capacitance and stick the Saligny output into the Taiko ATX and listen. Lacking the Taiko rectifier that would be a exercise in futility.

Hi @Nenon just wondering is the ARC6 module also CLCCCCC type?

[Tatomek7]

37 minutes ago, RickyV said:

is the ARC6 module also CLCCCCC type

yes, it is, with the last one bypassed

[RickyV]

29 minutes ago, Tatomek7 said:

yes, it is, with the last one bypassed

Thanks 🙏.

If I remember correctly you are using a ogonowski choke with 159ZJ specs. Was that a worthwhile upgrade and how much was it?

[Exocer]

1 hour ago, RickyV said:

Thanks 🙏.

If I remember correctly you are using a ogonowski choke with 159ZJ specs. Was that a worthwhile upgrade and how much was it?

Interesting idea. Checking their site, it would appear to be a custom built choke since the ones listed do not handle up to 5A.

 

I have also been in talks with Terry Kwok from http://poshanhk.com/ who apparently makes high-quality (and NICE looking) chokes that can meet the 5A, 10mH specs.

 

Speaking of specs, which specs do we most certainly need to match to stay true to the design? Also, if given the opportunity which specs should we improve upon?

[MarcelNL]

should we all be closer together we could easily do a choke shootout....I'm using Lundahl but do plan to get custom made chokes once the PSU is more or less past the tinkering stage

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, RickyV said:

If I remember correctly you are using a ogonowski choke with 159ZJ specs. Was that a worthwhile upgrade and how much was it?

 

I have a 50/50 feedback on these. Tatomek7 (I believe it was) liked them much more than the Hammond. Another member here, who prefered to stay anonymous also tried them and did not like them - he preferred the Hammond. 

It will be nice to have one more opinion :)

[RickyV]

20 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Interesting idea. Checking their site, it would appear to be a custom built choke since the ones listed do not handle up to 5A.

 

I have also been in talks with Terry Kwok from http://poshanhk.com/ who apparently makes high-quality (and NICE looking) chokes that can meet the 5A, 10mH specs.

 

Speaking of specs, which specs do we most certainly need to match to stay true to the design? Also, if given the opportunity which specs should we improve upon?

Yes I think they were custom chokes a 5A and a 10A. The DC resistance was a little different on both. Invoking the @Tatomek7 😀 he came up with these.

 

 

[Exocer]

12 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

The way I read it is that the Taiko active rectifier has a capacitor on board, so technically it's a transformer-rectifier-capacitor PSU when connected straight to the Taiko ATX module.

 

The Saligny recifier does not include a capacitor and specs say it needs at least like a 1000uF (do check)...so to compare apples to oranges we would have to add that minimal capacitance and stick the Saligny output into the Taiko ATX and listen. Lacking the Taiko rectifier that would be a exercise in futility.

 

 

 

Yup, agreed. I need to go back and check the original V1/2/3 recipe post for clarity. I remember there being a slight difference between the recipes that were posted. The details sre fuzzy. 
 

Doubt we’re missing anything crucial… just seeking an opportunity to experiment with a potential upgrade/tweek. 

[MarcelNL]

14 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Yup, agreed. I need to go back and check the original V1/2/3 recipe post for clarity. I remember there being a slight difference between the recipes that were posted. The details sre fuzzy. 
 

Doubt we’re missing anything crucial… just seeking an opportunity to experiment with a potential upgrade/tweek. 

get the power Saligny, and sit back and enjoy...highly recommended upgrade!

[Exocer]

5 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

get the power Saligny, and sit back and enjoy...highly recommended upgrade!

I’ve got two on the way! Good catch on your part. I’m usually on top of these things.

[MarcelNL]

it's impressive what it does! (so are the power peaks it can deliver)

IMO the specs show it's MADE for computer audio ;-)

 

• DC operating voltage 10Vdc to 72Vdc.
• Iq = 1,5mA.
• Continuous load current up to 60A or more with heatsink.
• Over 350A pulsed current at Ta = 25Celsius ( Max Rθjc = 1.0C/W, pulse duration ≤100 μs, duty cycle ≤1%).