UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[Confused]

I appreciate the listening impression posts so far, however, as a point to note it would be appreciated if people could briefly summarise where and how they are using their EtherRegen.  For example, is it feeding a DAC directly, a network endpoint, or whatever.  Plus, what is upstream of the EtherRegen, PC, Mac, NUC, Network player or whatever?  Some posters have sufficient detail in their signature, which is great, but for those that do not some basic details of your "audio chain" would be very useful in order to give context to your observations.

 

Thanks!😀

[Confused]

I have had my EtherRegen for a little over a week now.  First to say that it works flawlessly.  I have tried it upsampling with HQPlayer, in Roon Ready mode, feeding both my SOtM sMS-200Ultra and my Devialet direct via its Ethernet input, everything works as it should, and not one single dropout or stutter.  So it works.  As an aside, some Devialet owners experience issues using the Devialet in "Roon Ready" mode, getting stuttering or an "audio file is loading slowly" error message when running 24/192 or 24/176.4 material.  I have this issue, but with the EtherRegen in place the issue is gone.  I think this is an unintended result of the fact that the EtherRegen runs 100BASE-T.  Another interesting quirk is that SOtM's firmware for the sMS-200Ultra has a 100BASE-T mode, which never worked for me when running HQPlayer.  By comparison, the 100BASE-T EtherRegen works fine with HQPlayer, in my case upsampling to 24/192, which is the maximum PCM input rate for the Devialet via AES/EBU.

 

Another point to note, is that I am powering the EtherRegen with a SOtM sPS-500 set to 7V.  Recently the sPS-500 has been sat on the shelf unused, so it the best thing I have for power at the moment.

 

Yesterday I had some free time to try some listening tests with the EtherRegen.  Previous to having the EtherRegen, my preferred set up was running a standard TP-Link switch, which then feeds my SOtM modified D-Link switch.  This is a set up that I found preferable to either the standard TP-Link switch or the SOtM modified switch on its own.  I only had about an hour spare yesterday, so I thought I would try the quick Ethernet cable swap method, to take the EtherRegen in and out of the chain. This method works surprisingly well, no need to worry about volume levelling, and the streaming set-up remained stable even swapping cables between the EtherRegen and the SOtM modified switch.  This test was a little inconclusive. I did have a slight feeling that things sounded better with the EtherRegen in place, but at the same time, it was not a big enough difference for me to be sure that I was not kidding myself. At this point I ran out of time yesterday, and other seasonal related tasks had to take precedence over further experimenting.

Reflecting on the above, it occurred to me that in a way the above test was not entirely fair. Consider that without the EtherRegen, I was running a standard switch, then a SOtM switch, which is effectively running off the Mutec Ref 10. So even without the EtherRegen I have a degree of noise isolation from the upstream kit, plus I am running switch with a decent clock signal.

This takes me to this morning. I thought I would try the following:

A) TP-Link switch, SOtM modified switch versus TP-Link switch, SOtM modified, EtherRegen
B) TP-Link switch versus TP-Link switch, EtherRegen

I chose the above over the more obvious comparison of simply substituting the TP-Link switch for the EtherRegen, because A and B above can be done with a single Ethernet cable swap, and furthermore, the EtherRegen is supposed to make everything before the switch irrelevant, so why should it care if the TP-Link switch is there or not.

Anyway, the conclusion is not far off the one I reached yesterday. Yes, I do feel that there is a very slight improvement from having either the SOtM modified switch or the EtherRegen in the chain, but the difference is very subtle indeed. Could it be imagined? I really am not sure, it is in that strange zone where you go from thinking yes, I can here something, then after a few swaps either way, you become less sure if it is real or imagined. If I have to come off the fence and commit, I would go with an improvement, but very small. What do I think I am hearing as an improvement? It is a sharpening of the sound stage, a touch more focus and resolution to the details, and a general feeling of things being more relaxed but more natural.

For now, I will be leaving the system as TP-Link switch, SOtM modified switch, EtherRegen. This seemed best to me. My overcomplicated system gets yet more complicated. One thing to try in the future will be to use the REF10 to provide the clock reference to the EtherRegen.

Whilst in the mood for confusing A/B swaps, I thought I would try the EtherRegen feeding the Devialet via Ethernet direct using its built in "Core Intelligence" board Roon RAAT mode, and compare to feeding the Devialet direct from the standard TP-Link switch. Curiously, or perhaps not curiously, the results were pretty much the same as when feeding my SOtM / Mutec kit. I could detect a small difference, but perhaps at the margins of what might be imagined. Same thing as before, the sound seemed a little more focused, tidier if you like, a fraction sharper with more resolution. 

So no jaws literally hitting the floor, but I think a very small improvement.  To provide a little context to all this, I actually preferred my system with the standard TP-Link switch to the old SOtM modified switch on its own, and the TP-Link switch is one that I used in the past for a comparison with an AQVOX switch, which I ultimately sent back for a refund, I just could not find any difference between the two. So this is very marginal stuff, at the edge of what might be messing with your mind, and I think my old TP-Link switch might be quite good for what it is, but I would take the EtherRegen over the AQVOX, and sit down and enjoy the music happy that the EtherRegen might just be adding that touch of polish to the sound.

The next step for me is to see how I find the system in normal use over time, then perhaps try feeding the EtherRegen with the REF10.

 

Sometimes these first impressions hold, sometimes other things become apparent in normal use with a range of music. Time will tell.

 

I do not want this post to sound too negative, I have a very complex front end, with a sMS-200Ultra Neo feeding a tX-USBultra feeding a Mutec MC3+USB, all fed from a Mutec REF10, so I already have lots of signal "cleaning" and "reclocking" going on, and yes, the improvement is marginal but I think it is there.  Unlike the AQVOX that went back for a refund, I'll be keeping the EtherRegen

[Confused]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

@Confused: Great report, thanks. I am a little concerned that you might be defeating the differential isolation moat ot the EtherREGEN in your setup. There is a chance of that if you are using your Mutec REF10 to clock devices both upstream and downstream of the EtherREGEN. Can you post a system diagram?

If the isolation gets defeated, the EtherREGEN will then just sound like a very good conventional switch.

Also, have you tried having the EtherREGEN as your only switch? 

Hope you have a lovely holiday and New Years,

—Alex C.

Thanks for that Alex, an interesting observation, and you make a very good point.  The SOtM modified switch takes its reference clock from the clock distribution board in the sMS-200Ultra, so this does potentially add a link to both sides of the EtherRegen "moat".

 

Anyway, it is easy enough to remove the SOtM modified switch from the system completely, and indeed to run the EtherRegen as the only switch in the chain.

 

I will certainly give this a try.

[Confused]

8 hours ago, stevebythebay said:

Been my experience to date, at least with the eR, but have also found it true with other devices I've used, that removing power and then reconnecting power seems to have the effect of altering the workings of the device under test.  It just seems to take a bit of time, usually 1/2-1 hour to get everything stable again.  And that has an impact on SQ to one degree or another.  No clear idea why.

Audio clocks typically need to be running for half an hour or more and at a stable temperature for the clock accuracy itself to be stable.  (minimum phase noise)

 

Initially, I did not quite understand your comment with reference to my post, but now it is clear.  I think I need to clarify that my EtherRegen has been powered up and running for over a week now.  When comparing to other Ethernet switches, as mentioned in my earlier post,  I was connecting / disconnecting Ethernet cables, but at no time did I remove power from the EtherRegen. The EtherRegen remained "powered up" constantly for exactly the reasons you mentioned.  

 

Alex made a good point about possible "leakage loops", so I will be revisiting this one with a simpler set-up, as you both suggest.

[Confused]

14 hours ago, KHA said:

@Confused,

 

As I am new to this forum, and also using the Uptone stuff with sotm sms 200 ultra I have purchased the mutec

REF-10 clock . Did you have any issues with synchronizing the ether regen and the sotm sms 200 ultra.

thanks for an answer

 

Karl-Heinz

 

 

Hi Karl-Heinz - Welcome to the forum.  

 

First to point out that this is an UpTone Audio sponsored thread, so any discussions re using the Mutec REF 10 with SOtM kit should take place elsewhere, it is clearly "off-topic" here.  I will send you some pointers via PM.

 

What is on topic here is the use of the Mutec REF 10 with the EtherRegen.  All I can say is that I have not tried this yet, but I do plan to try this in the near future.

[Confused]

I had some free time this morning and finally got around to trying a "with and without" comparison with the Mutec REF10 providing the 10MHz reference clock.

 

The test was performed as described here:

 

As I mentioned in the linked post above, I thought that there would probably be little to be gained by adding the REF10.  However, I was surprised, there was noticeable improvement, to my ears at least.  With the REF10 the sound was cleaner, the highs more resolved and just a general sense of things being more lifelike and coherent.

 

From about news year's eve onwards, I have been using my system with the REF10 feeding the EtherRegen and have been thinking just how good everything is sounding, now I think I know why.

 

Of course, the Mutec REF 10 is a  £3.5k product, and I am not sure if I could recommend anyone buying a REF10 just for use with an EtherRegen, but for anyone who already has a REF10 (or similar) the fact that the EtherRegen has a 10MHz input allows you to get steller results for very little money.  This pretty much sums up my position, I couldn't be happier.

 

Out of interest, has anyone else tried the EtherRegen with the REF10, or similar 10MHz clock?

[Confused]

10 hours ago, Ed Sky said:

I'm also one of those who also received the EtherREGEN in Australia on Monday.

 

The EtherREGEN has finally fixed the problem I've had with my system since I initially bought B&W 804D3 speakers two years ago. The issue was that these speakers are extremely transparent (possibly to a fault) and as soon as I installed them it exposed all the weaknesses in my components. I've since upgraded amplifier, source, cables, even installed a power regenerator. All have made substantial improvements but I'd been frustrated, that with all these upgrades things still weren't sounding completely right. Sure, the system as a whole was sounding very good but there was subtle distortion and unnaturalness to the sound that would irritate me on some days. I thought perhaps the speakers were just too bright.

 

I'd only recently discovered the impact on Ethernet on the playback chain. Just a few months ago I was streaming over WiFi. I actually started up a thread on another forum asking why people recommend Ethernet over WiFi. The thread eventually got shut down (due to the usual activity that happens on these types of threads). Fortunately it did motivate me to try stream over Ethernet, then to try a better Ethernet cable and then to try a Baaske isolator (which a kind forum member lent me). I was pretty surprised at what the Baaske did to the system and that then opened my eyes what the EtherREGEN may do.

 

So now I sit, with about 24 hours on the EtherREGEN and the following descriptors come to mind: clear, alive, holographic, realistic, impactful and detailed bass (which is quite addictive I must warn) and a sense of space between instruments and voices. It's definitely elevated my system and I think completely removed the issues I've felt I had, though I'd need more time with it just to be sure.

 

What's also great with the EtherREGEN is it's such an easy tweak to install. Was up an running in a few minutes.

 

My system specifications are as follows: tp-link modem/router-->EtherREGEN-->Simaudio Moon 390-->Simaudio Moon 860A-->B&W 804D3 (with PS Audio P20 PowerPlant).

Some interesting comments.  I too have suffered a little from a system that nominally sounds great, but does have those tiny irritations.  A bit like a luxury car with a tiny squeak or rattle you can't find.  In my case it is mostly perceived distortion in the HF and presence range.  Regarding the EtherRegen, I wrote this back in December "There was one track in particular with a snare drum that annoys me a bit, it just adds a touch of harshness that is almost heard direct from the tweeter. With my quick listen Sunday it sounded like a snare "in space", directly between the speakers. Now, I could be imagining this, it could be that some earwax fell out of one ear during the night, I am really not sure. It was, to me at least, and running from aural memory, a small but distinctive difference."

 

So maybe for both of us the EtherRegen is doing a good job of removing the annoying digital distortion / artifacts?  Small stuff in absolute terms, but it can make a huge difference by making a listening session enjoyable, rather than frustrating due to annoying niggles.

[Confused]

2 hours ago, Midnightrambler said:

Hi, is there anyone who has tried high end clocks with the ER, and what were the conclusions? 

 

Yes, see posts from way back when .....

 

 

[Confused]

18 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Who told you about muon generators? A company has actually come up with a muon generator using lasers, unfortunately it is still insanely expensive, but hopefully that will change over time. I have spent 40 years designing all kinds of neat things using muons if only we had an inexpensive miniature muon generator. It looks like the that may actually be happening soon! Put that together with carbon nano tubes and look out!

 

John S.

Excellent.

 

If you could generate me a pair of Muons that would be greatly appreciated.  (Just two would be fine, it is all I need)