Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

If your question is whether Roon is necessary to enjoy Euphony OS, the answer is No. 

• if you are wedded to Roon like many are, then the best bet is to use Roon Core with StylusEP 
• if you're agnostic, the best possible SQ I've heard is with Stylus on Euphony.

Your other question about whether to run a standalone server or a distributed setup is for you to decide. You can try it both ways and see what you prefer. For standalone, you can run either:

• Roon core + StylusEP  or
• Stylus.

For distributed, you can run either:

• Roon core  on server, StylusEP on endpoint, or
• Stylus  on server, StylusEP on endpoint.

I have never used the PTS server device so I cannot comment on that specific hardware.  I would think you should be able to start a Roon Trial on that device only and try what Rajiv has suggested above.  I am running a custom built XEON based server with that same software.  I switch between Roon and Stylus on a regular basis.  I have also been moving between a single box  and a dual box solution.  With the new version of Euphony running in RAM I am finding the single box solution very compelling.   Much more listening to do and some tweaks on the USB interface to my Kii Three Speakers.

 

 

[bobfa]

3 minutes ago, aangen said:

I have a Keces P8 feeding power to the PTS and the Matrix X-SPDIF 2. It is more than worthy. I haven't touched the included adapter.

Welcome to the forum.   

 

This post might interest you 

 

[bobfa]

From what I have read there is/was/still is??  A defect in Qobuz that caused an outage.  It may be related to what is most likely an accidental SQL injection vunlerablity in their API (My assumption). The revoked some of the API keys for different software packages that talk to their API.  So there may be a need for a software update or just sign out and sign back in..

 

 

[bobfa]

Aangen,

 

I am currently playing from Qobuz on my Volumio Primo just fine. I am also streaming directly on my iPad.  

 

  Anger does not really help. We know for sure that about a week ago there was a problem with their systems and they had a crash! Recovering from that process required some of the vendors to make changes.  I do not know what might be going on today. Lets use some logic to find and fix the issues:

 

 

Go to the following website for Euphony and put in a support ticket:

 

https://euphony-audio.com/hesk/

 

 

Tell them what your issue is.  I am sure you will get a response soon.  Remember they are on the other side of the globe!

 

You can also trying DMing  @qobuz. on twitter to see if they can help.

 

 

----------------

You can also dig around here:

 

https://help.qobuz.com/hc/en-us

 

I am pretty sure the Qobuz app cannot send stuff to Jriver. I do not think that Jriver has a Qobuz plugin..........

 

 

[bobfa]

35 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

This whole thing has been managed rather poorly by Qobuz. I can understand their panic upon discovering they were being ripped off by bad actors using their API. However, they seem to be taking their own sweet time to resolve it with their legitimate partners. Very frustrating for us users.

I am betting that they are getting heat from both the consumer and the provider side.  They could be in contract violation with the music labels!  This is not a fun place for them to be.  (Or us).   This feels like an instantiation of the major risks of connected/cloud/services.    I can imagine the losses of revenue that they may be experiencing.  I wonder if they can measure it? 

 

I would be very interested to be in the after-action meeting when they get this cleaned up.  I was wrong about my initial assumption of some sort of SQL injection attack. This is worse, theft of services, WHEW.    Is it bad API design, is it bad software design?  

 

If I was Tidal/Spotify/others I  would be looking at this VERY CAREFULLY! VERY!

 

[bobfa]

Hurray.  What did you have to do?

[bobfa]

3 minutes ago, austinpop said:

But for now, I’m enjoying Qobuz on Stylus, and realized once more how much better it sounds than Roon+StylusEP.

I know what I am doing before breakfast.  🎶✌️👍

[bobfa]

Thank for the info gang.  Let’s try to keep this thread on the subject of Euphony setup and issues please.

 

 

[bobfa]

Guys. I love the info about other OS configs,etc. but let’s keep this to Euphony stuff. 

[bobfa]

6 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Okay, let me try to to stick to the "Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues" topic here. 

 

The most important setting in Euphony is to make sure software volume control is not used. That is the only setting that would really ruin the sound of Euphony. I see that @FelipeRolim has done that, and I assume @Nsxturbo has done it too. 

Improvements you can make are:

- Buffer before play - 100%

- Enable ramroot

- Use cache

- Set realtime priority to some processes / CPU Isolation

There is not much you can screw up in Euphony / Stylus, really. Tweaking your BIOS to get the best of Euphony might be a little different, though. If you have a really good power supply, I find Euphony sounding best when you tweak the BIOS for best performance - enable hyperthreading, don't limit the power consumption, enable turbo boost, don't limit the CPU frequency, etc. That would bring more dynamics. The problem is if your power supply is not  really good, enabling all these settings can have the opposite effect. The best solution would be the fastest hardware you can get with the best power supply you can afford. I am currently using an AMD Ryzen 7 3700X powered by a really good 12V / 20A LPS, and everything else powered by 5 Sean Jacobs DC3 rails - 3 for the ATX connector, one for the JCAT NIC, and one for the PinkFaun I2S card with ultraOCXO clock. 

If you do all that and you still prefer Windows over Euphony, by all means enjoy the Windows OS and please share with us, so we can try too. 

What have you found out about the CPU isolation, etc?  I have not tried that.  I will have to revisit my BIOS Settings as I do not remember where I left things.

[bobfa]

34 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

He fixed it remotely but did tell me to press "Safe fs to disk" before rebooting and that should reboot back to non-ramroot. I have not tried that yet. I am still doing non-RAMroot. I am not sure if my system the Ramroot would work fine. It was not sounding good yesterday when I play DXD, which I think is because of its large memory.. It occupies 28% of memory with DXD and with 24/96 about 22%. I have 8 GB. Maybe I need to burn in my RAM. It has always been only 5% used. So I suspect RAMroot may not work well for large files. However, I would later increase my RAM to 16 GB using the acclaimed Apacer ECC RAM. I think then RAM quality becomes very important running RAMroot.  It may also be I have not upgraded my Euphony V3 properly. Somehow I am still stuck with parts of V2 config, It is weird. He says I need to reburn the entire OS and erase everything in the SSD including the music.  I have 1 TB of music though all are backed up. He said I can backup via network and then reload the music. I think I will just burn it onto an optane drive as everyone is praising that. The M2 drive us much  faster and supposedly more quiet. It has been a pain to upgrade to V3. Problem with Euphony is it can be a bit buggy. But good thing the support in general is very good to excellent. The development is also quite progressive,  

I have been using V3 for quite a while and have not had any issues like you are describing.   I never had V2!.

 

Many of us are using the Optane devices that are 32GB.  I do not know of others trying the larger ones to even comment on them.  I found that any SSD even the NVME variety do not sound as good to me.    I do not know what your machine is but ECC RAM  will not go in a lot of machines!   I think that the testing of the Apacer RAM was NON-ECC, but I have not been following it closely.  I have the ECC variant on order, we will see if it actually works on my motherboard!

 

I would not make any assumptions about file size  and sound quality.  I am less than enamored with keeping music on theses servers to try and keep the system properly up to date, backed-up, etc..

 

*** It really sounds to me like you need a fresh start.  I think your install is broken.  Sorry.

 

Bob

[bobfa]

22 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

I am thinking of doing Octane 64GB, so I will have a bit more cache space.  I have Ryzen so hopefully it should work on ECC RAM! I am in same shoes as you, got the ECC on the group order. What is your MB again ? I have the x370 

I am using a Xeon board ASUS WS C246 Pro Motherboard

 

 

[bobfa]

On 10/27/2019 at 8:08 PM, Chopin75 said:

Sorry, remind me again, are you doing euphony RamBoot from USB stick ?  How do you run windows again? Is it inside a  M2 drive or other drive ? 

 

13 minutes ago, aangen said:

 

I agree 100%. I would ask Bob to kindly allow it.

I am interested in the system design.  I have never been able to get windows to sound right to me.  The more we know the better.

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, FelipeRolim said:

 

Hello. Unfortunately my testing period with Roon is already gone. At the time, I had tried Roon against JPLAY FEMTO, and I considered Roon worse in sound quality. Either way, even better, I'd never pay the price for its lifetime license.

 

 

I didn't understand your question exactly. On my computer I use only Windows Server 2019 Datacenter in Core mode, Audiophile Optimizer v. 3.00, JPLAY FEMTO and Minority Clean, all running from RAM, besides making over dozens network and BIOS adjustments. Thus, the SSD works exclusively for transporting music files. But, let's leave that to when they open a specific thread.

 

The big thing is that in my experiments over the years I've never been able to make the network connection between two computers outperform one computer alone while relying on a router or switch to do the IP and network management work. That is, neither bridge connection, router, nor switch played better than a single computer. What the bridge connection does is simplify the path and allow only one cable, but still has absolute dependency on the router for network management. So these "standard" Linux provided to us don't work as well. But, once I learned how to set it up correctly, without the computers relying on the router's DHCP anyway, then both Windows computers started playing substantially better than anything I experienced. I think one of the secrets is on the network, but only one of them, and there's much more behind it, such as the manufacturer-specific Windows drivers.

 

 

I don't use M.2 because I consider the SSD, with 5v linear power supply and audio grade SATA cable deliver better sound. I tried the internal and external storage. Since Windows is loaded into the RAM from a .vhd file, I can easily swap it through GRUB4DOS.

 

I'm far from saying that I know how to teach someone how to set up a computer. Adjustments are personal and depend on a number of factors. But in my case, I've achieved something very interesting over almost 10 years experimenting. The fact that Linux has few possible tweaks can help, but it is also a limiter when trying to get the most out of a computer. So, or the user is committed to an "easy ride" solution (Euphony is the best alternative I've experienced with this bias), or an effectively audiophile solution. In this case, personally, I prefer Windows, which to me sounds at the top level.

 

To see how there's a difference: I tried several frequencies of the Core i3-8100T processor. Between 3.10GHz and 2.40GHz there's no sonic difference using Windows. But, with Euphony, using 3.10GHz plays better, as Nenon suggested. Therefore each case is very particular. It's not easy to get the most out, so, I like to have a lot of adjustment variables. I don't spend days or waste time testing more than listening. Adjustments have been occurring gradually over many years and many more hours of listening. That's why I won't waste time on a Linux anymore.

FelipeRolim

 

Thanks for the outline.  If you would care to actually document the hardware, software, settings so others can replicate your work that would be great.  It would be best on anther thread.. so we can continue the Euphony stuff here.  I work hard to share my design, setup, settings, and results for others to use.  I would love to see what you have done and how it makes you feel and your system sound!

 

 

[bobfa]

44 minutes ago, davide256 said:

At CAF now. Lots of rooms using Qobuz which is nice but the laptops / MacBooks/Wolf servers used disappoint after having becoming used to Euphony SQ. The rooms using Innuos are a relief. 

 

39 minutes ago, davide256 said:

A shout out to @austinpop. Thank you for your post about using “full throttle” NUC CPU settings if your power supply is good enough. Doing that was counter intuitive to my past experience, but with the JS2 it worked, improved transparency of Euphony playback

Maybe start a thread on CAF give us an outline of what you heard and what you liked/disliked!!  Hope you enjoy the show!

 

 

[bobfa]

10 hours ago, Lukasluis said:

And inject more noise. I'm using a more than adequate PSU.

I would like to suggest that we do not speculate but listen and report please.

[bobfa]

15 hours ago, austinpop said:

A couple of excellent features are coming to Euphony/Stylus. One that I have been beta testing is a UI option in the Queue view to buffer all tracks in the queue from the current track on. This makes a noticeable impact on SQ, as you can wait for all tracks to be in RAM before playing the list.

 

The other feature that looks promising is the ability to direct Stylus output to a UPnP renderer. I wish I had had this when I had the dCS Bartók review unit.

 

i gather the Euphony folk are busy working on the launch of a new product - their Essentia server, but no details are known yet.

Rajiv,

 

OH I needed that (still need) the UPnP render stuff for my Allo USBridge Sig endpoints.  

 

Thanks!  

[bobfa]

Over time I have found that running either Stylus stand alone or Stylus EP has sounded better than running RAAT.  For both of my systems the difference has been clear in favor.  As of late I have been testing a different endpoint MoOde OS. 6.4  on an Allo USBridge Sig.  I am finding greatly improved sound quality, even my wife is commenting on it and she never does that.

 

When I run a Roon Server on either ROCK or Euphony to the Squeezelite renderer there is a  Sound Quality improvement. The system is unstable and music does not start right every time I make a change. 

 

I am mostly using Audirvana+ to UPnP .   I hope to test Euphony to UPnP when it gets further along.

 

 

 

 

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, bobfa said:

Over time I have found that running either Stylus stand alone or Stylus EP has sounded better than running RAAT.  For both of my systems the difference has been clear in favor.  As of late I have been testing a different endpoint MoOde OS. 6.4  on an Allo USBridge Sig.  I am finding greatly improved sound quality, even my wife is commenting on it and she never does that.

 

When I run a Roon Server on either ROCK or Euphony to the Squeezelite renderer there is a  Sound Quality improvement. The system is unstable and music does not start right every time I make a change. 

 

I am mostly using Audirvana+ to UPnP .   I hope to test Euphony to UPnP when it gets further along.

 

 

 

 

I think I found part of my problem. I have two MoOde devices running Squeezelite  and they hade the same name on the network.  I have fixed that and things are a lot better.

 

 

[bobfa]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

So far its no contest between LMS on NAS enabled vs disabled... LMS enabled is more transparent audio than  disabled.  Whatever squeezebox support Roon

provides sounds much better if the NAS is LMS enabled. You can easily tell that LMS is feeding Euphony as the endpoint name shows up on the LMS server settings information tab as a recognized player. I did have to do Euphony app restarts after I enabled/disabled LMS at the NAS in order for Roon to find

Stylus endpoint.

 

 tried running LMS on the same AMD PC as Roon core, didn't work, couldn't find Stylus endpoint.

 

tried Stylus player  as Squeezebox player for NAS but that option wasn't recognized  by LMS, believe Euphony Stylus player network transport is SMB

based on past testing. Would be nice if Euphony integrated Stylus player with Stylus EP squeezebox support

 

Worked with iPeng controller also but that was a bit quirky for buffering and I distrust a controller that sports  digital volume control... I didn't find it

as good as Roon core/controller

Dave,

 

I have found that in order to test like this I had to shutdown the Roon server when running LMS as it conflicts on the network somehow.  Roon did warn about this when you enable squeezelite compatibility.

 

It slows the testing down a lot!

 

I have not tried your configuration.  it is interesting.  

 

 

[bobfa]

3 hours ago, davide256 said:

 

I've not gotten the Squeezelite mode to work vs running Stylus EP. And found the [Rooncore/Stylus EP] + [LMS enabled NAS]  option not to sound as good as

[Euphony/Rooncore +local HD].

 

The option I preferred is actually a 3 "computer" solution  (1) squeezelite enabled Rooncore server (2) LMS enabled NAS (3) Stylus endpoint

 

Setup this way, LMS provides the squeezelite transport to the endpoint, Rooncore is providing library functions and playback control over LMS

I am really confused.  You do not need LMS in this at all.

 

 

[bobfa]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

 

I've not gotten the Squeezelite mode to work vs running Stylus EP. And found the [Rooncore/Stylus EP] + [LMS enabled NAS]  option not to sound as good as

[Euphony/Rooncore +local HD].

 

The option I preferred is actually a 3 "computer" solution  (1) squeezelite enabled Rooncore server (2) LMS enabled NAS (3) Stylus endpoint

 

Setup this way, LMS provides the squeezelite transport to the endpoint, Rooncore is providing library functions and playback control over LMS

I am slightly confused.  Why is LMS even needed.  Roon does not need LMS.

[bobfa]

8 minutes ago, davide256 said:

All I know is that LMS when enabled shows that it is sending data to Stylus EP and that sound degrades when LMS is disabled at NAS

 

Roon core in a 3 box setup cannot directly "send" music. The music resides on the NAS. Beginning to wonder how Roon can send squeezelite data if that capability

is not resident on the NAS... buffer stream at core server then resend to endpoint using Squeezelite protocol? Roon used to advise that RAAT didn't apply to music

sent from NAS, media had to be on the Roon core server and transmitted to Roon endpoint.

 

What software are you using to “play your music?”

 

When using Roon there is no need for LMS.:https://roonlabs.com/howroonworks.html

 

In an LMS system there is the server and endpoints.  You can use a web browser to control LMS.  

[bobfa]

Dave,

 

Still does not make any sense to me.  Roon gets the files from the NAS via a network share.  It then sends those files to the endpoint using either RAAT or Squeezelite protocols.  You control Roon with their Roon Controller application.  LMS cannot be in the middle of this.  

 

What are you actually using to select music and play it?  A web browser? 

 

Somewhere there is confusion.

 

Bob

 

[bobfa]

Dave,

This picture illustrates one of my configurations.  The Roon Core is running on the NUC in my basement.  I am using an Allo USBridge Sig running MoOde OS setup as Squeezelite renderer or in Roon parlance "Output".   I control my music playback with an Apple iPad running the Roon Controller App.

 

Bob