Digital inputs - rank them and explain

[Snatex]

Rank these digital inputs into a DAC based on sound quality and explain how big the gap in quality is between them and the reasons why....

 

Balanced

USB

Optical

Coax

[The Computer Audiophile]

This question doesn’t make sense. Here’s why. 

 

These interfaces don’t exist in a vacuum. They are always part of a component in which engineering compromises have been made. For example, a USB input on one DAC may be its best sounding interface while USB on another DAC sounds worse than AES/EBU. 

 

The source on the other end of these interfaces also matters greatly.

 

 

I mean no disrespect with my answer. But, it’s like asking which tires are the best. It depends. 

[Snatex]

10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This question doesn’t make sense. Here’s why. 

 

These interfaces don’t exist in a vacuum. They are always part of a component in which engineering compromises have been made. For example, a USB input on one DAC may be its best sounding interface while USB on another DAC sounds worse than AES/EBU. 

 

The source on the other end of these interfaces also matters greatly.

 

 

I mean no disrespect with my answer. But, it’s like asking which tires are the best. It depends. 

 

The reason I asked was I am trying to figure out the optimal way to stream Tidal through Roon to my Violectric V850 DAC.

 

Options:

 

Mac > USB > DAC

 

Router > Cat5 > USB Transport (USBridge) or SPDIF Transport (Digione) > DAC

 

Router > Cat5 > Streamer (Aries?) balanced out  > DAC

 

I’m open to other suggestions. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, Snatex said:

 

The reason I asked was I am trying to figure out the optimal way to stream Tidal through Roon to my Violectric V850 DAC.

 

Options:

 

Mac > USB > DAC

 

Router > Cat5 > USB Transport (USBridge) or SPDIF Transport (Digione) > DAC

 

Router > Cat5 > Streamer (Aries?) balanced out  > DAC

 

I’m open to other suggestions. 

Thanks for the extra information as it's critical to helping you. 

 

Here is some additional info about your inputs. I would use the AES or USB inputs. I like the extra voltage of the AES connection but the USB connection looks goo as well. Optical is completely isolating but many people report suboptimal performance with Toslink. 

 

[esldude]

USB has the best arrangement for local clocking of the DAC.  

 

The rest are generally similar in being a variant on SPDIF which relies on recovering a clock rather than generating a new clock right next to the DAC like asynch USB allows.  

 

OTOH, all the methods if done decently well are inaudibly different.  Use whichever is most convenient for your purpose and get on with enjoying the music.  

 

With your gear, Mac>USB>DAC is the best.   No need to worry otherwise. 

[esldude]

2 minutes ago, STC said:

 

Jitter

Optical receivers add a lot more jitter (in the ns range) than well-implemented coaxial. 

While true at one time in the past, not so anymore.  Here is the toslink and coax result of a 12 khz signal at 48 khz using the Musical Fidelity V-link USB to SPDIF converter.  So same clock either way, one over coax, and one over toslink.  I don't see any difference.  Same result with a number of devices with both toslink and coax output.  Toslink is fine with good gear.  

 

[agillis]

This is going to be different for different DACs. Some DACs just have a cheap USB chip so the SPDIF is better.

 

Most modern DACs are using a good USB chip like XMOS so the USB input will be the best.

 

Coaxial is usually better then Optical because of Jitter although a good design can eliminate this (as mentioned above)

 

Even though these interfaces are digital it is possible to get analog noise into your DAC from the transmitting device.

 

I recommend using a good network player like our microRendu to eliminate noise. Even a cheap USB DAC will sound much better with a good player.

 

 

[Sal1950]

On 10/6/2018 at 4:39 AM, esldude said:

OTOH, all the methods if done decently well are inaudibly different.  Use whichever is most convenient for your purpose and get on with enjoying the music.  

+1,   That really is the bottom line here and nothing at all worth stressing over.

 

On 10/6/2018 at 5:01 AM, esldude said:

While true at one time in the past, not so anymore. 

Yes, plus the fact oft missed is that Toslink is totally isolated and 100% galvantically isolated. If all the talk about power line noise, etc in USB has any place in reality, Toslink handily avoids all that. 

[STC]

I did hear the difference between spiff and toalink in one highly reviewed DAC once. Anyway, hope this answer from electronic stack exchange can provide some insight. I am happy with USB which I think is good enough for audio. 

 

Jitter

Optical receivers add a lot more jitter (in the ns range) than well-implemented coaxial. 

If the coax implementation is botched (not enough bandwidth extension on the low end, violation of 75R impedance, high intersymbol interference, etc) it can also add jitter.

This only matters if your DAC at the receiving end doesn't implement proper clock recovery (ie, WM8805, ESS DACs, or other FIFO-based systems). If it does it properly, there will be no measurable difference, and good luck hearing anything in a double blind test. If the receiver doesn't clean jitter properly then you'll have audible differences between cables. This is a "receiver not doing its job" problem, not a cable problem.

[STC]

24 minutes ago, STC said:

This only matters if your DAC at the receiving end doesn't implement proper clock recovery (ie, WM8805, ESS DACs, or other FIFO-based systems). If it does it properly, there will be no measurable difference, and good luck hearing anything in a double blind test.

 

1 minute ago, esldude said:

While true at one time in the past, not so anymore.  Here is the toslink and coax result of a 12 khz signal at 48 khz using the Musical Fidelity V-link USB to SPDIF converter.  So same clock either way, one over coax, and one over toslink.  I don't see any difference.  Same result with a number of devices with both toslink and coax output.  Toslink is fine with good gear.  

 

 

The article said it is the problem with the implementation on the DAC’s side. I too was surprised that I could hear a difference with that particular DAC as my own various blind test with Mytek failed to show any. 

[wklie]

First of all, one needs to decide whether DSD playback is an important requirement or not.  Generally DSD playback can be done with USB input for a USB DSD DAC.

 

Some (not all) DAC can accept DSD in DoP from SPDIF input.  Some (not all) streamer can output DSD in DoP to SPDIF outputs, e.g. Lumin product line.  If DSD playback is a must and the setup does not fully support DoP over SPDIF, then USB is the only possible choice.  Even if DoP over SPDIF works it is usually limited to DSD64, not DSD128 or even higher.  (The OP list does not include I2S over HDMI, so that is not considered here.)

 

If one does not have to use USB and does have choices of various SPDIF connections, then which works best is DAC and system dependent.  You will have to try each to see which works best.  Generally I believe AES > Coaxial > Toslink.  For customers using our Lumin U1 MINI streamer, my suggestion is to try both USB and AES (if both are supported by the DAC) and see which sounds best with their DAC.  I'd not be surprised if some people prefer AES to USB in some setup.

[AudioDoctor]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I mean no disrespect with my answer. But, it’s like asking which tires are the best. It depends. 

 

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2

 

I don't care what you drive, you should be driving it like you're at Le Mans.  Haven't you picked up a car magazine lately?  haha.  I kid, obviously.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2

 

I don't care what you drive, you should be driving it like you're at Le Mans.  Haven't you picked up a car magazine lately?  haha.  I kid, obviously.

Ha! Let’s see those tires perform on the Baja 1000 ?

[AudioDoctor]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

Ha! Let’s see those tires perform on the Baja 1000 ?

 

Road and Track would lead you to believe you'd win!!!!!!