Allo Digione Signature

[RX8R3ROD]

Great to hear you have the system sounding as you want it?

 

So so much nicer when it’s a source of joy rather than frustration, eh? ?

 

And from a person perspective really good to hear from a fellow 22D user; something a lot of folks could, IMHO, potentially benefit from.

 

You seem to have achieved a lot of effective system optimisation via the power supplies.

 

In hindsight I wish I’d explored this aspect of system performance rather earlier, compared to, say, swapping cables... doubly frustrating considering the amps have always majored on power supplies. Why did I not get that it applied elsewhere, too? ?

[wanta911]

2 hours ago, RX8R3ROD said:

 

And from a person perspective really good to hear from a fellow 22D user; something a lot of folks could, IMHO, potentially benefit from.

 

 

Agreed. I'd be lost without mine.

 

BTW - the Aries has now been officially banished in favour of the Digione Signature. There were a few little factors that tipped the scale but the main one was a much better soundstage, particularly depth.

 

Just a couple of minor observations for new users:

1. The LEDs were burning my eyeballs out, get the dark case or have some of those LED stickers handy (as I did).
2. The USB-C connections can be a little flaky. I had a few instances of the flashing red LED that suggested not enough power was being supplied but it was just pressure being put on the DC cable from another cable or in the case of the SBooster, a little more weight due to the box filter in the cable meant that there was some strain on the USB-C connection . I solved it by fixing the filter to my entertainment unit with blu-tac.
3. With the DC cables being connected on one side and SPDIF on another, you might need to employ a stabilising method such as rubber underneath and/or weight on top to stop it from moving around.
4. The startup sound with Volumio is cool - it gives it a personality ? 

[LowMidHigh]

I'd like to thank all who have helped me. LMS is up and running and I'm streaming off SoundCloud. Allo has been super helpful. Props! 

 

Still, I'm disappointed on more than one few level: 

 

The SoundCloud plugin is rife with bugs. I don't think I can stick with it. 

 

The SQ is mahhh... My HiBy R6 over coax blows it away. I expected much more, given the strict 75ohn impedence and other technolgies incorporated minimize jitter. 

 

Is it the lack of burn-in? How much better does it, how quickly, if at all?

[LowMidHigh]

A quick retraction:

As the hardware is breaking in, the sounds turns better by leaps and bounds.

A great product; the best source for my setup (AES/SPDIF is native to my monitors).

 

 

Still, the SoundCloud plugin is a bitch! If anyone has a solution, please chime in.

  

[nbpf]

On 12/12/2018 at 10:21 PM, RX8R3ROD said:

...

Look forward to hearing the results of your tests on the cables ?

 

I have reported some impressions here:

 

 

Best, nbpf

[linuxfox]

Hi

I'm looking for a 100EUR alternative, so I have tried an aqvox usb power supply that I was using with my old audiophilleo. Results are not so good: it sounds lazy specially on the upper frequencies: it sounds worse than the audiophilleo

 

[LowMidHigh]

1 hour ago, linuxfox said:

Hi

I'm looking for a 100EUR alternative, so I have tried an aqvox usb power supply that I was using with my old audiophilleo. Results are not so good: it sounds lazy specially on the upper frequencies: it sounds worse than the audiophilleo

 

 

Consider http://www.swagmanlab.com/Linear-Power-Supplies

$150 delivered. $300 for Special Edition.Good reputation.

 

I thought of getting it, but they don't have any published specs. If I were on budget, I would though.

 

As of now, I'm gravitating toward the Teddy. Maybe I'll write a bit more to lay down my perspective.. 

[nbpf]

6 hours ago, linuxfox said:

Hi

I'm looking for a 100EUR alternative, so I have tried an aqvox usb power supply that I was using with my old audiophilleo. Results are not so good: it sounds lazy specially on the upper frequencies: it sounds worse than the audiophilleo

 

What does "it" refer to here? To the same thing? To different things? Could you please elaborate a little bit?

[linuxfox]

7 hours ago, nbpf said:

What does "it" refer to here? To the same thing? To different things? Could you please elaborate a little bit?

Sorry I'll try to be more specific. The Allo Digione Signature (with the Aqvox usb power supply) sounds less dynamic and engaging than the audiophilleo2 (whith the Aqvox power supply). They both feed a Naim Dac. The audiophilleo is a very good match for the Naim Dac but is a little too forward for me (it seems that all the instrument are very close to the listener). This problem is solved with the Allo Digione Signature but I'm missing the dynamic sound of the audiophilleo. A solution that beats them all is using the usb port of the NDac with an usb stick with wav files: so I know that the Ndac can sound a lot better and I'm trying to find a soltution that goes closer to the usb stick performance. Did you compare the Ndac usb input with wav files vs the Allo Digione Signature with LPS-1.2? How they differ?

Thank you

 

[nbpf]

1 minute ago, linuxfox said:

Sorry I'll try to be more specific. The Allo Digione Signature (with the Aqvox usb power supply) sounds less dynamic and engaging than the audiophilleo2 (whith the Aqvox power supply). They both feed a Naim Dac. The audiophilleo is a very good match for the Naim Dac but is a little too forward for me (it seems that all the instrument are very close to the listener). This problem is solved with the Allo Digione Signature but I'm missing the dynamic sound of the audiophilleo. A solution that beats them all is using the usb port of the NDac with an usb stick with wav files: so I know that the Ndac can sound a lot better and I'm trying to find a soltution that goes closer to the usb stick performance. Did you compare the Ndac usb input with wav files vs the Allo Digione Signature with LPS-1.2? How they differ?

Thank you

 

Thanks, interesting! I have not already done this comparison but I'll do it and report my findings. Best, nbpf

[RX8R3ROD]

4 minutes ago, linuxfox said:

Sorry I'll try to be more specific. The Allo Digione Signature (with the Aqvox usb power supply) sounds less dynamic and engaging than the audiophilleo2 (whith the Aqvox power supply). They both feed a Naim Dac. The audiophilleo is a very good match for the Naim Dac but is a little too forward for me (it seems that all the instrument are very close to the listener). This problem is solved with the Allo Digione Signature but I'm missing the dynamic sound of the audiophilleo. A solution that beats them all is using the usb port of the NDac with an usb stick with wav files: so I know that the Ndac can sound a lot better and I'm trying to find a soltution that goes closer to the usb stick performance. Did you compare the Ndac usb input with wav files vs the Allo Digione Signature with LPS-1.2? How they differ?

Thank you

 

I have an Aqvox usbbpower supply, and compared to the SMPS power supplies you get with many products it’s a really big improvement IME.

 

However, although it puts out a lot less HF noise than your average SMPS, I don’t think it’s ripple specification is especially good (there are only so many components one can fit into a small space, I guess?).

 

if you want to hear more of what the Signature is capable of without throwing a load of loot at it, you could try a 2 x 18650 batteries and an Amazon battery holder, or 4x 18650 batteries and an Allo battery holder.

 

This will, IME, outperform the Aqvox quite comfortably. 

 

Hope that may be of help?

[nbpf]

6 hours ago, linuxfox said:

Sorry I'll try to be more specific. The Allo Digione Signature (with the Aqvox usb power supply) sounds less dynamic and engaging than the audiophilleo2 (whith the Aqvox power supply). They both feed a Naim Dac. The audiophilleo is a very good match for the Naim Dac but is a little too forward for me (it seems that all the instrument are very close to the listener). This problem is solved with the Allo Digione Signature but I'm missing the dynamic sound of the audiophilleo. A solution that beats them all is using the usb port of the NDac with an usb stick with wav files: so I know that the Ndac can sound a lot better and I'm trying to find a soltution that goes closer to the usb stick performance. Did you compare the Ndac usb input with wav files vs the Allo Digione Signature with LPS-1.2? How they differ?

Thank you

 

I have tried replaying the three tracks (in .wav format) that I have used for all my comparisons from a 4GB USB drive and from the Allo DigiOne Signature (transcoding from .flac to .wav) and my impression is that replay from an USB drive still sounds better than replay from the Signature. I have not done any blind test but I have asked my wife to also listen to one track and she came up with the same conclusion. That said, I am not sure that I would be able to distinguish the two sources with instrumental music in a blind test. But I believe that I would distinguish them with vocal music. I would say that the USB presentation is a little bit more natural and perhaps more coherent. I will make another test with the original UpTone Audio cables to confirm or confute these findings.        

[wanta911]

I've decided to try the battery option. Here are my newly acquired Samsung 35E (3500mAh) batteries getting ready at the office.

 

Only half a day of work today then on holiday until January 16 - woo hoo!

[LowMidHigh]

Reaching the finish line is always a good feeling and likely the right time to share. 

 

It was a long journey to identify the right server for my system: from the deceitful and poorly-built Nativ Vita, to the shameful Fedilizer Nimitra, to the commendable and superbly engineered SOtM Ultra Neon, coming to an end with the DS. 

 

In hindsight, it was the most natural fit all along. AES is the electric blood coursing through my system with the pro oriented Genelec and the pro heritage of Mutec (which has only recently veered to the audiophile market, with a USB implementation that isn't up to par with its SPIDF/AES prowess). Feeding a cascade of MC3UB a clean 75ohm SPDIF signal is a heaven come true. My system has never sounded so superb. 

 

Still, there's room for enhancements . Perhaps others would care to comment and build upon it. 

 

(1)

I'm in this game from streaming, particularly SoundCloud. When LMS streams directly, via the plugin, the SQ is amazing; simply gripping. On the other hand, when streaming off my Android device or MacBook Pro (Airplay), the yields is markedly less stellar. I guess the initial processing by the none-audio-grade gear, compounded by the additional network traffic, inject the signal with high levels of jitter. 

 

Unfortunately, LMS plugins leave a lot to be desired—really a lot. Therefore, my first proposal is Chromecast built-in capabilities. Spotify, Tidal, Deezer, YouTube, SoundCloud and many others would be then streamed directly by LMS, with the corresponding SQ. The user would still enjoy the sleek and rich UI provided by the vendors. Truly, the best of both worlds. 

 

For me, that would catapult DS to a new and much higher level. I would gladly acquire again DS with that feature. 

 

(2)

Furnish the DS with an AES outlet. 

 

SPDIF and AES are close sibling, but the latter is balanced, immune to interferes and able to travel long distances. Under some circumstances, it can result in better SQ. 

 

(3)

Add a BNC port to feed the DS 10hz ref clock. 

 

SOtM has it and Uptone will offer it in their coming network switch. It's cheap to implement ($6 according to Uptone), and it will boost SQ. 

 

(4)

Rudimentary user guide.

 

I spent considerable time setting up LMS and in troubleshooting. The process requires mastering some ssh commands and tweaking parameters in the Web GUI. Along the way, I relied heavily on Allo customer support. They performed well, but I'd rather Allo complied a concise and clear document outlying the various steps and commands. It would've saved me time and frustration and taken the burden off Allo. 

 

(5)

The old pet peeve of "bring in a metal case" shouldn’t be forgotten:) 


 

 

 

[nbpf]

On 12/20/2018 at 3:08 PM, linuxfox said:

Sorry I'll try to be more specific. The Allo Digione Signature (with the Aqvox usb power supply) sounds less dynamic and engaging than the audiophilleo2 (whith the Aqvox power supply). They both feed a Naim Dac. The audiophilleo is a very good match for the Naim Dac but is a little too forward for me (it seems that all the instrument are very close to the listener). This problem is solved with the Allo Digione Signature but I'm missing the dynamic sound of the audiophilleo. A solution that beats them all is using the usb port of the NDac with an usb stick with wav files: so I know that the Ndac can sound a lot better and I'm trying to find a soltution that goes closer to the usb stick performance. Did you compare the Ndac usb input with wav files vs the Allo Digione Signature with LPS-1.2? How they differ?

Thank you

 

Talking about solutions that match USB sticks in terms of sound quality for the Naim DAC: Which devices are known to fulfill this property?

 

Do NDX, NDX2, ND555 provide S/PDIF feeds to the Naim DAC that match (or perhaps even exceed) the sound quality of USB sticks?

[linuxfox]

On 12/20/2018 at 3:22 PM, RX8R3ROD said:

if you want to hear more of what the Signature is capable of without throwing a load of loot at it, you could try a 2 x 18650 batteries and an Amazon battery holder, or 4x 18650 batteries and an Allo battery holder.

 

This will, IME, outperform the Aqvox quite comfortably. 

 

Hope that may be of help?

Thank you for your suggestion. I have ordered the battery holder and tomorrow I'll do a comparison test

[linuxfox]

3 hours ago, nbpf said:

Talking about solutions that match USB sticks in terms of sound quality for the Naim DAC: Which devices are known to fulfill this property?

 

Do NDX, NDX2, ND555 provide S/PDIF feeds to the Naim DAC that match (or perhaps even exceed) the sound quality of USB sticks?

this is a very good question. All the options I have tried are not as good as the usb stick (I was hoping that the allo signature with a good power supply coud match the sound quality). Probably someone in the Naim forum has the answer.

[RX8R3ROD]

2 hours ago, linuxfox said:

Thank you for your suggestion. I have ordered the battery holder and tomorrow I'll do a comparison test

It’ll be really interesting to hear how you get on!

 

I’m still experimenting but so far I find the basic battery supply is better than, say, a basic iFi iPower, but add regulation and supercaps to an iPower and it’s better than batteries. Add regulation and supercaps to batteries and it’s a step up from the equivalent iPower (all in my system, with my electricity supply, and with my particular audio preferences).

 

Adding a DC iPurifier improves things further, and adding 2 in series moreso.

 

So I guess if you like the direction the batteries take you, and you find the sound significantly less disappointing than your initial experience, you have the option of then taking the sound a fair bit further without massive expenditure.

 

Do tell us how you find it, and good luck!  ?

[nbpf]

3 hours ago, linuxfox said:

this is a very good question. All the options I have tried are not as good as the usb stick (I was hoping that the allo signature with a good power supply coud match the sound quality). Probably someone in the Naim forum has the answer.

I plan to make a few more tests during the weekend with the UpTone Audio Cables and also with a Schiit Eitr that I have not been using recently. I suspect that the cables between power supplies and Signature can have a significant impact on the sound quality but I need to test this more carefully. It is likely that the S/PDIF cable also has an impact on the sound quality of the Signature and it is finally conceivable that the USB interface of the Naim DAC is just better than its S/PDIF interface and that therefore a USB stick will always sound better than a S/PDIF feed. I will also try to formulate this quastion in the Naim Forum.     

[wanta911]

Damn! Using the battery pack for the clean side and moving the Uptone LPS 1.2 to the MiniDSP DDRC-22D sounds really good....at least equal to using the LPS 1.2 there with the JS-2 powering the MiniDSP and probably a touch smoother without any loss of detail. I'm convinced that the result is a combination of the two changes - my setup has always sounded better with the LPS 1.2 powering the MiniDSP over any of my other power supplies, my theory is that despite containing a DC/DC converter the MiniDSP contains the last clock in the chain and that clock reacts to a better power supply and I rank the LPS 1.2 above the JS-2.

 

I'm not really that keen on the whole regular battery recharging & replacing routine, as well as having to disconnect/connect between each listening session to prolong battery life, it's got me thinking about buying another Uptone LPS 1.2 and using the two units to power the Signature and the MiniDSP.

 

There goes the bank balance again ?

[wanta911]

Well my theory was wrong! I just took the LPS 1.2 out of the loop completely and the battery pack still sounds great - no change with the JS-2 powering the MiniDSP.

 

S**t!

[RX8R3ROD]

Some really interesting findings there thanks! ?

 

You can use an inline switch to stop the need to connect/ disconnect between sessions for which I’ve not been able to measure any negative effects, though haven’t had time to concentrate on listening for those yet, bearing in mind @nbpf ‘s experiences with cables on the Signature.

 

I shall have to explore the 22D power supply rather more; really appreciate the pointer on that!! ?

 

I too made an assumption about those converters in the MiniDSP, and just made a basic regulator /cap setup for it. But it sounds like it’s worth going the whole hog! Lucky I ordered a batch of New Class D superregulaters and supercaps to play with over Christmas ?

[LowMidHigh]

For all you people who get Ghent, what cable grade do you choose? He's got at least 4 grades. 

[nbpf]

I have gone through some more listening tests today, specifically:

 

1. DigiOne Signature (server + renderer) powered via Ghent Audio cables vs. USB stick

2. DigiOne Signature (server + renderer) powered by UpTone Audio cable vs. USB stick

3. Digione Signature (only renderer) powered via Ghent Audio cables vs. USB stick

 

I have also compared transcoding vs. non transcoding and real-time kernel vs. standard kernel. My conclusions so far are that replay from a USB stick sounds consistently better than replay through the DigiOne Signature. 

 

In other words, the differences between Ghent Audio cables and  Uptone Audio cables, transcoding and non transcoding, real-time vs. standard kernel are negligible in comparison with the difference between replay from USB and replay from the DigiOne Signature. 

 

This difference is itself not day and night but clearly perceivable. I have also tried to replace the BNC-BNC Naim DC-1 cable with a Supra Coax-Coax cable with similar results.

 

Thus, my temporary conclusion is that either the S/PDIF interface of the Naim DAC is not as good as its USB interface or that the DigiOne Signature is not as good as I hoped.

[nbpf]

6 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

For all you people who get Ghent, what cable grade do you choose? He's got at least 4 grades. 

I have bought the standard Canare 4S6.