Firewire Differences?

[Forehaven]

I was just wondering is there any difference in firewire cables? I need a 9 pin 800 wire. The Locus cable is only 6 pin, plus it's $1k. Is that justified by performance? (I may have to just go to a 9 pin to 6 pin 800 cable) Any other cable's I should consider? IE: Redco makes 6 pin, 15 ft for only $10. Curiously, I didn't find another thread asking this question.

 

Thanks

chris

 

[davidR]

Chris ask Lee from Cryo Parts if he could do a custom cable for you, if not you can use a 6-pin to 9-pin adapter, or go with a 6 to 9 pin cable that is already available. If you'd like to try a very cheap tweak for firewire cables look at the pinout of a 6-pin firewire cable, just google "firewire pinout". Take a small piece of electrical tape and cover the voltage / power pin. This breaks the power fed by the computer (which is very noisy) and gives you a nice little upgrade in my opinion.

 

[4est]

Get a Gold X 6>6 and use an adapter

 

[Forehaven]

Fantastic! Thanks Forrest and David for two options; and it's a good thing to hear about converting it to a 6 pin for that power issue alone.

 

Thanks guys!

chris

 

[notevenclose]

FWIW, Weiss Asia are recommending the Oyaide FW cables, citing anything more expensive as un-necessary. No personal experience as yet, I have one on order. Seem pretty reasonably priced.

 

A more expensive option but with a trial period is Entreq.

 

http://www.asiaweiss.com/main/?p=1649

 

 

 

[ericuco]

Might also try the guys at www.usbfirewire.com.

 

They will make a custom cable (length, termination) for about $60. They can also take the power lead out although their method of doing so might cause some other issues according to Clay (regular here on CA).

 

In any case, I use their firewire cable (18" w/ FW400 and FW800 connectors) between my MBP (FW800) and Weiss DAC2 (FW400) and am happy with the result.

 

In one comment from Daniel Weiss here on CA, he recommended that a decent cable is all that is needed and to keep the cable as short as practical (sorry not a direct quote so please correct it if I am off here).

 

 

[cfmsp]

 

what source did you find for the Oyaide? and what cost?

 

I could only find it on Japanese sites that don't ship out of the country. I signed up for a re-shipping site, but couldn't figure out how/where to replace my address with the re-shippers, and got cold feet.

 

thanks much

Clay

 

[notevenclose]

I sourced it direct from Weiss Asia, they were quite happy to help. Price including shipping to the UK is 900 HKD, about 76 GBP.

 

[Forehaven]

Eric, you wrote "In any case, I use their firewire cable (18" w/ FW400 and FW800 connectors) between my MBP (FW800) and Weiss DAC2 (FW400) and am happy with the result."

 

So did you do the 400->800 cable for the reasons mentioned?

 

[ericuco]

The FW cable I use is 18" (length) with a FW400 connector on one end for the Weiss DAC2 and FW800 connector on the other end for the MBP. Works just fine.

 

Also, had the power lead "removed" or "terminated", not exactly sure of the appropriate term. In any case, there is no power lead reaching the DAC2. This also helps to ensure there are no power surges reaching the DAC2 as well. The DAC2 documentation includes a separate one-page warning sheet to warn customers of this hazard.

 

[Forehaven]

David,

 

Can I come back here a bit and make sure I got it right.

I'd use the power supply that came with each device? Kinda a pain with all those wall warts lol but worth it I'm sure you're right. And it makes sense to think about it. Separating the power supply on equip. like a pre amp, or a turntable, also sounds better. Another thing, I assume the 6 pin end fits into the fw 800 input, and the transfer speed stays the same? (I know, stupid question but I had to ask ) )

 

Ya know, it's interesting, discussing electrical isolation...just in keeping with other types of isolation is being discussed here like galvanic isolation. Different thing, but isolation is isolation.

 

Thanks for the info David

 

Chris

 

[cfmsp]

 

Chris,

yes, if you remove the power leg you'll need to use the power supply for each device - computer and DAC.

 

If we think about the googol (look it up) of complex interactions in one's AC circuit, it's entirely possible that in some instances, the use of the computer to source power for the DAC (via the firewire cable) will actually be an improvement over the sound of using both Power Supplies and eliminating the power leg via Firewire.

 

For example, imagine a DAC with a crappy SMPS, but with good isolation with respect to the incoming Firewire signal. In this scenario, that the power is coming from the computer might not matter much, whereas the noise of the crappy (as opposed to well designed) SMPS might have a significant negative impact on the sound of the amplifier / preamp / etc.

 

More evidence as to why (I believe) AC interactions (and therefore AC solutions) are more system specific than any other part of the system excepting loudspeakers.

 

just a thought,

clay

 

 

PS, was just reminded of the first time I heard the word "googol".

 

It was a Sierra Club ad from many, many years ago, probably 40 or so.

 

Incidentally, that other "Googol" only returns a single hit that confirms my memory.

 

 

 

 

[ted_b]

I've posted numerous times here on CA about goldx firewire cables. About 18 months ago we got into quite a thread about removing the power and I found that a simple 4 pin adapter on a Goldx pro 6-to-6 was all that was needed to produce easily the best sound I'd heard (Weiss DAC2)and the adapter doubled its value by ipsofacto removing the power run. However, I've not tried the ultra-expensive, and the Oyaide that Kent talks about (Weiss Asai) looks quite promising. Right now my best is a $20 investment.

 

[notevenclose]

Received the Oyaide Neo cable, which replaced the standard 0.75m FW800-600 cable originally supplied with a LaCie HD.

 

Now perhaps I had a dud cheapo, but right now you couldn't get the grin off my face with a crowbar.

 

Immediate reaction is that it's removed a 'haze' and has a substantially broader tonal palette, but this increase in clarity has apparently been achieved without any upward tilt in total balance. Everything is just more 'solid' and the musicians have been putting in some pretty intense practice...

 

Superb product, and superb service from Weiss Asia.

 

[agentsmith]

Not even sure if Kent from Asia Weiss even claims it is better sounding. I bought my DAC202 with the Oyaide cable anyway. It sure worked very fine and the DAC202 is out of this world good. Cable seems very well made. I have nothing to compare it against though.

 

[notevenclose]

Indeed, I doubt Weiss make any such claim - was talking to the UK importer the other day and I think his opinion was that Weiss, coming at things primarily from a 'purist' engineering approach (and presumably their 'pro' background) rely primarily on their measurements.

 

To be honest, I'd even said to a couple of other people I wasn't really expecting it to make much, if any, difference.

 

Oops. Wrong...

 

[agentsmith]

Really? I should find some 6-9 pin cheap cable and try make a comparison.

 

May I ask what other equipment are you using your 202 with?

 

[notevenclose]

Nah, don't do that, paranoia lies down that path...

 

Seriously though, if you've got a good solution which you're evidently happy with, I'm not sure what would be gained by deliberately taking a step backward even for comparison purposes.

 

 

 

Some context:

 

My system’s in kind of a state of flux at the moment, not least because of the aftermath of a lightning strike.

 

Until a short while ago, system for quite some time had been CEC transport & DAC, Kondo & Sugden amplification, Living Voice OBX-RWs.

 

Computer audio was very much a secondary source via an Apple TV into the CEC via optical.

 

I did a lot of experimenting a couple of years back, but felt at the time that the computer/HD options (MacBook Air and iMac were pressed into service) were inferior to the transport. That seemed consistent whether using the digital input on my previous Resolution Audio Opus 21, CEC or Kondo DACs.

 

Ironically I thought the HD options sounded more 'mechanical' and there was a grain to the sound which made things just a little grey in comparison with the belt-drive transport.

 

At that time I tried Trends and Bel Canto USB>SPDIF adaptors, with various battery packs etc.

 

 

Being aware that a couple of years down the line there was a newer generation of computer-based doohickeys, I'd been intending to fiddle with them, but not got around to it.

 

However, said lightning strike turning parts of the system into a collection of expensive doorsteps proved to be the nudge I needed to explore newer options.

 

In truth the Weiss was bought with a view to it being something of a stopgap, but I confess I was surprised at how good it was on the FW input with a borrowed (well, swiped it from my stepson's bedroom) Mac mini.

 

The DAC2's a capable enough beast on the optical and SPDIF inputs, but the FW, it seems to me, is a lot better. Good enough in fact to have me thinking it might be staying put for rather longer than intended, accordingly I've bought my own Mac mini, stuffed it with RAM and at the moment that's the primary source.

 

OS X only on the mini, music files via an external HD on the USB bus.

 

 

I'm still 'feeling my way,' but having become more familiar with the basic sound of the Mac/Weiss I'm now starting to tweak.

 

Confess at this point my focus is very much on getting maximum performance from what was my CD collection, almost 10,000 tracks ripped as AIFF over the years.

 

The hi-res stuff is of little consequence (it’s taken me best part of a month to even load the sample files Weiss supply) since none of the current HR catalogue I've encountered is of any real (musical) interest to me.

 

 

But I've started dabbling in the last week or so, first step I tried the demo version of Pure Music.

 

Hmm. Or more accurately, oh dear. Not for me. I thought it took the system more into the realm of 'hifi' rather than music; the longer I listened to it, the less I liked it. The caveat being this was, 99% of the time, on my 44.1k/16 bit files - perhaps it sounds better fed a HR diet (and possibly it's better with a USB interface rather than FW, although I can't really think why that should be the case).

 

The Oyaide cable has been the second experiment, with obviously, to my ears, much better results, however unexpected.

 

To put this in some kind of perspective, every other cable in the system is Kondo KSL silver, even the mains distribution board and the Sugden power amp have been rewired internally with the stuff. So to pull a 60 quid bit of wire out of a box, plug that in and then not really pay any attention as I clicked 'play' and then have one of those 'f*** me' moments... that's why you can't currently shift the grin off my face.

 

Clearly this HD-based world is just as prone to tweakery and fine-tuning as the more conventional stuff.

 

Next step in due course will be to try Amarra. Doubt I'd go for the full version, but you never know.

 

[Panelhead]

The KRK Ergo I use is very FW cable effected. It can make metallic noises during playback. I thought was the unit or the drivers causing this. KRK said was my FW cable. Tried a bunch of cheapies and all of them did it from time to time.

Finally broke down and ordered some Verge Labs from akuman. I have used three lengths of 9 to 4 pins cables. And a 4f to 6m adapter to isolate FW power.

None of the Verge Labs have acted up. KRK CS says the Ergo is a good FW cable tester. They said Belkin also work well.

But have a 0.6 meter Oyaide FW800 to FW400 cable in route. It was 126.00 USD with shipping. It will be interesting to compare to the 14.00 Verge Labs cables.

BTW, I asked asiaweiss about having FW power disconnected and said it was fine as built. How did the power get disconnected in the Oyaide cable?

 

George

 

[cfmsp]

 

"KRK CS says the Ergo is a good FW cable tester."

 

Well, that's putting a positive spin on it.

 

Am interested to hear your perspective on the Oyaide.

 

thanks George,

Clay

 

 

UPDATE:

For the more adventurous and thrifty, one can order these cables from Rakuten, but you will need to use a shipping service such as Tenso, since Rakuten does not ship outside of Japan.

 

Two 1m Oyaide Neo-W d+1394 cables (1 6pin to 6pin & 1 for 6pin to 9pin) are roughly $125 USD, NOT including shipping & re-shipping fees, taxes, etc.

 

 

[Panelhead]

I could not believe the weird distortion was cable related. Tried generic, Amphenol, and some others. I must have tried 10 cables and most were fine for a week or two.

I suspect the Oyaide works good too. I bet there is a correlation between sonics and working with the Ergo.

There is a firmware update coming. Maybe it will allow the Ergo work with more cables.

 

George

 

[Panelhead]

Googling the Oyaide Neo FW cable they come up at the head of the list. Sometimes buying from non-export savvy sellers is a challenge.

Wanted some Amphenol Pro Line XLR's and TRS connectors to wire up my system. Ordered from a place in Europe and ended up paying 80.00 in bank transfer, taxes, and shipping to get 50.00 worth of plugs. Found Thomannn.de and the next time I paid 70.00 total to get 50.00 of connectors. The asiaweiss guys even take paypal. I do not need a 6x6 anymore, so getting two is no need. I connect all my drives with USB. Use 4.00 shorties.

I use an adapter to isolate FW power from my dac. How are the Oyaide modified to do the same? I hope it would be reversible to allow using the Oyaide with an Apogee Duet.

 

[cfmsp]

 

I ordered the two cables I mentioned. I was a bit uncertain given my lack of Japanese literacy. I had to register for an international forwarding service, which Rakuten pointed me to via link.

 

The service I used is called Tenso. The difficult part is getting the Tenso address (in Kanji) into the various address fields of the Rakuten order. Once I found the Tenso "cheatsheet", I was comfortable.

 

There's also a bit of uncertainty regarding the potential for hidden fees of the forwarding service. When you order from Rakuten, you don't yet know the exact fees for the forwarding service, only the shipping TO the forwarding service (i.e. Tenso).

 

OTOH, the listed fees were minor when converted to USD.

 

I mentioned (earlier) the price of two cables ($125USD) sans international forwarding as this was exactly the price of one cable delivered by AsiaWeiss.

 

Since I would eventually want a Firewire for both Mac Mini AND PowerMac G5, I chose to order two at once, and combine the shipping/transfer fees.

 

 

 

Clay

 

 

 

 

[Erwin S]

I found a pro audio store in Germany that sells the Oyade d+ FW 6 x 9 pin L=1m for... 199€! Not including shipment from DE to BE (add 11€!)

 

Better to import myself. I think via Rakuten this cable costs 49€ + shipment 25€ + duties and VAT totaling around 110€. Would it be cheaper via Weiss Asia?

 

[donnaj8887]

Hi, I am a new member of forum. Would a newcomer be warmly welcome here? Good day you guys!!!

 

 

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