Why!? Please Tell Me Why!

[gmgraves]

1 minute ago, fas42 said:

Sorry to disappoint you, but it is there ... you know how one listens to some recordings, and it sounds very messy, confused - trademarks of a "lousy recording", shall we say? Well, that messiness is all the critical detail, which is bound up with playback distortion - it's indecipherable, on normal playback. So, remove the layer of reproduction distortion, and the detail snaps into focus - "it all makes sense".

 

Ridiculous. You can't fix a lousy recording with playback. It's useless to discuss this with you. You are in another universe. 

[gmgraves]

9 hours ago, Rexp said:

Spoken like a true Anti Audiophile, go troll somewhere else.

No one who posts here is an "anti-audiophile" by definition. And you should really stop calling folks that. It' s a lot like an ultra Conservative calling someone a "traitor" because they are a Liberal Democrat. In both cases, the "other side" simply sees the situation differently based on their own criteria 

[gmgraves]

5 hours ago, Rexp said:

You seem confused, let me ask you a question -what is your opinon of someone who buys the featured cables?

I am anything but confused. I'm just tired of posters here calling people "anti-audiophiles" or false audiophiles simply because they might disagree with another poster's opinion. 

And what I think of someone who buys the featured cables is neither here nor there. People have a right to buy what they want. Just because the cable in question has no worth from an electrical standpoint doesn't obviate its "bling" appeal. If one can afford the price of a small car for something that doesn't really do anything special except look impressive, then, more power to them. 

[gmgraves]

2 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Totally agree that a “bad” recording can’t be fixed, but how many truly bad recordings do you have?  And, what is a bad one?  Low DR, muddy mix, no soundstage, too much sizzle on the top?  Many recordings check one of those boxes but are still well recorded.  Some remasters are better and some are just different (or worse).  I’m actually amazed how good some older recordings are.  I don’t think my dCS “fixes“ anything.  

Quite a few actually. Every multi-miked/multi-track recording is a poor recording in my estimation. Every recording with compressed dynamic range is a poor recording. Then there are the recordings that are indifferently captured with sound that is too distant, or is pushed a little too far  (more of a problem in analog days than now. admittedly), and then there is defective vinyl. Warped records, eccentric records, records with underfill, records with too much regrind in the vinyl. Records that are noisy, etc., etc. etc. The point being not that there are so many bad recordings, but that there is so little one can do to fix a bad recording. You can't make an orchestral recording captured with a forest of microphones to 16 or 32 digital tracks, for instance, sound like stereophonic sound, because the information that makes stereo isn't there, and there is no "tweak" that one can apply to one's playback system to turn such a poor recording into a good one. That's my beef with Frank. He insists that his method of tweaking a system can correct for poor recordings, lousy playback equipment and bad listening rooms!

[gmgraves]

45 minutes ago, accwai said:

Do you real believe the audio tweak industry has developed in a vacuum totally outside of the ultra high-end audio culture?

How it developed is irrelevant and in no way alters the fact that your earlier post had nothing to do with what I was saying. I was talking about the audio industry being somewhat unique in the realm of hobbies in that there are more aftermarket dubious "accessories" sold into this hobby than others. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Nissan GT-Rs, Lamborghinis and McLarens. NOTHING! 

[gmgraves]

33 minutes ago, accwai said:

 

Thanks for the clarification. So it's perfectly Ok to make this:

 

 

but making the stuff to transform that to this:

 

 

would be fair game for jail right? Now that's interesting. It is actually possible to drive out of a Toyota dealership with an 86 loaded with all kinds of Toyota Racing Development goodies that would take it very far from a showroom stock configuration. And most of these TRD parts show very little external signs. So you can't tell how much factory add-ons are inside the first one. We can throw Toyota in jail too right?

You still miss the point. The add-on accessories on the car, shown above, all do something. They either enhance the car's performance, it's handling or it's looks. Tell me, what does the green pen do? What does a vinyl demagnetizer do? (Hint, there is nothing ferric in vinyl to get magnetized)  What does a and ugly brown speaker cable the size of a boa constrictor do? NOTHING beyond what other cables far smaller, and far cheaper can do exactly the same!

 

 

[gmgraves]

6 hours ago, Summit said:

 

Martin-Logan ESL’s speakers do not have better (mid and treble) dispersion than many other speakers. They have a curved panel to increase dispersion, but it’s still much less than most other speakers. To have less horizontal and vertical dispersion is often a good thing and result in less unwanted reflation from the sidewalls and ceiling.    

I didn't say Martin-Logan' s ESL speakers had better dispersion than all speakers, I said they had better dispersion than many speakers and they do. I can sit pretty much off-axis in my listening room and still get a decent stereo image. But my point to Frank was that there are limits...  

[gmgraves]

On 4/19/2018 at 5:06 PM, Ralf11 said:

Like this:

 

 

 

but swap the output for your input

Leslie Speaker. Working on the assumption that if you add enough vibrato to a Hammond you can actually make it sound like something other than it is (the worse sounding excuse for an organ ever developed). 

[gmgraves]

9 hours ago, accwai said:

 

That's a rather unique view in itself. It seems to be far more prevalent here on CA to view the whole high end industry as dubious. Example: who can look at the price tag on a Kondo Ongaku with a straight face? I don't have direct experience with the Ongaku but I do know quite well a smaller scale implementation of that exact type of thing. Does it do anything special? Lets not talk about that since I don't want to go to jail.

 

 

Don't know why you're so sure the add-on accessories have any effect. Can't tell myself since I've never driven one that's even close to stock. So who knows if they really work or are just all money grabbing snake-oil.

 

As for the vinyl demagnetizer, never used one either. These demagnetizers are not just for software though. They're often used on cable connectors and vacuum tubes as well. The vinyl version is supposed to be more powerful than the smaller CD version, which can also be used on cable connectors and vacuum tubes. And it can be used on blank CD-R before they're burnt. Does that make any difference? Once again lets not talk about that since I don't want to go to jail

 

Now the fat cable. Don't know much about it so I can say if it's anything special. Nothing beyond much smaller cable is likely true. Don't know about the much cheaper part though.

 

In any case, I've now far exceeded my self imposed posting quota. So thank you for an interesting conversation and see you later elsewhere.

What does discussing these things have to do with going to jail? For that matter what does anything here have to do with going to jail? 

[gmgraves]

1 hour ago, elcorso said:

 

Each industry invents or determines parameters to obtain juicy sales and profits.

 

For example, if we talk about the big pharma, they every day put lower "healthy" standards of:

 

- Blood pressure.

- Blood glucose.

- Cholesterol levels.

 

Should they go to jail for this? 

 

Roch

Reducto ad Absurdem (SP?) 

[gmgraves]

10 hours ago, Rexp said:

I think you're confused because you seem to have given up on the goal of hi end audio and settled for mid fi components like your Harman Kardon amp (yes I have heard it). So instead of praising those who strive for great sound you appease the group of Anti Audiophiles who denegrate Audiophiles at every opportunity.

 

You don't know what you are talking about. Mid-fi indeed! And I always praise those who strive for great sound, I just don't praise ignorant, stupid, delusional or stubborn!

[gmgraves]

11 hours ago, Rexp said:

Nievity or collusion with the enemy. Bit like the Vishy French.

Enemy? You see audiophiles who don't agree with your opinions as THE ENEMY? Wow, You need help my friend. This is a hobby, not national security! Perhaps you should step back from audio for a bit and gain some proper perspective!

[gmgraves]

26 minutes ago, christopher3393 said:

 

You, my friend, have just earned the coveted "Slaughtered Spelling of the Month" Award!  Not to worry. You still made the point that George is like the Marshal Petain of Audiophilia, collaborating with the Nazis of Audio (the fascist Anti-Audiophiles),  so a traitor to freedom-loving Audiophiles everywhere. He betrayed the loyalty oath!

 

Where do you guys get the notion that I'm an anti-audiophile? I simply don't understand that. I've been an audio enthusiast longer than many of you have been on this earth and have spent many hundreds of thousands of dollars on audio gear over the years! I am so much of an audiophile that I make my own recordings using professional-grade (and cost) gear because most commercial recordings don't sound good enough for me! How much more of an audiophile can one be? Just because my Master's degree in Electronic's Engineering won't let me buy into some of the nonsense that the audio snake-oil salesman are hawking and I know about expectational bias doesn't make me any less of an audio enthusiast than any of you! My criteria for sound quality is simple: When it sounds, through my home system, like the microphone feed sounded through my monitor headphones at the recording site, then I have accurate sound. That is far more important to me than the "great sound" that many of you are chasing in a vacuum, totally devoid of references. On the other hand,  I go to at least two live classical concerts a month - and will walk out of any I see using sound reinforcement! IOW, I re-calibrate my ears OFTEN. How many of you so called "true audiophiles" do that! I get the impression that most of you just sit around listening to 30-40 year old rock music and think that's high-fidelity and are pretty ignorant of what is possible in audio and what isn't. To me you guys are the anti-audiophiles because I have stayed true to the meaning of the phrase "Stereophonic High-Fidelity." while most of you have gone off on some tangent of bright, sparkling highs and booming bass, not realizing (or caring) that real music doesn't sound like that. But then most of you don't ever listen to real music so what do you know!

[gmgraves]

2 hours ago, MNG said:

My apologies. I don’t wish to interrupt the debate, but I’ve been through 10 pages and I’m still non the wiser as to whether those cables are genuine or a spoof - does anybody have any actual information about them?

 

Thanks.

If you're talking about the Boa Constrictor speaker cables, yes, they are real. I don't know who makes them but I have seen them or something similar to them before.

[gmgraves]

21 minutes ago, elcorso said:

 

You do not have to be so afraid, just respect ... as long as you do not step on them, they will not bite you.

 

I have seen many during my entire life in the Rainforest, I have never had problems with them and in reality very few people are bitten by snakes here, but yes by politicians or Dengue mosquitoes.

 

I think the bad reputation comes from the time of Adam and Eve 

 

But I do not know with the snake cables, or if there is an antidote ...

 

Roch

When I was 15, I went for a hike on the power company's high-tension transmission line right-of-way as it ran from the power plant out to the highway some miles away. As I stepped off a rotted log onto the ground at one point, I felt a stinging pain in my left leg such as I had never experienced before or since. I looked around to see what had done it and I heard a rattle. There was a good sized rattle snake coiled-up next to that log, ready to strike again. I ignored the pain and moved-off quickly. The problem was that I was miles from any road and alone. I immediately got off the right-of-way and headed through the woods to where I knew the power plant access road was. I was feeling worse and worse. and threw up several times. By the time I reached the power plant road. I was in a bad way. Along came a power company vehicle, a pickup truck, and I waved it down. I knew the guy driving it (my dad worked at the plant) and I just pointed at my leg and said rattle snake bite. He threw me in the passenger side of the truck and took off like a mad man to the local medical clinic. I kept passing out and when I finally woke up, I was on gurney in the medical center and I heard people talking in the next room. My parents were there, and I heard what turned out to be the doctor say that another few minutes and it would have been too late for the anti-venom. Believe me I have a good, healthy, respect for snakes! 

[gmgraves]

3 hours ago, Nordkapp said:

Ignore the haters George.

What bothers me is the "Us vs Them" mentality that this kind of thing engenders. It's simply not healthy. It's one thing to debate differences of opinion and I think that's a good thing, but to actually spread hate on a web site dedicated to a hobby, of all things, is about as creepy as one can get, in my humble opinion. For instance, I disagree with Frank (fas42) all the time, but I think he's a nice guy and I think that if he went away, CA would be the poorer for it. Debate, yes, argue vehemently and resort to ad hominem attacks, not cool. But even I do it sometime and I know better! 

[gmgraves]

19 minutes ago, Nordkapp said:

George, by all means avoid those damn cables too!

Don't worry. I have Sewell Direct's "Silver Back" cables 12 ga, 259 strand, OFC copper terminated with really high quality bananas. 

 

https://sewelldirect.com/hometheater/speakerwire

 

That cable and my Martin-Logans get along so well, that I have retired my four 15 ft lengths of Monster M1. Simply not necessary. 

[gmgraves]

35 minutes ago, Nordkapp said:

Yeah, i think we're all guilty of getting ugly on the internet at times. And then we think about it and feel bad. Well, I know I do at least. 

Me too. 

 

 

[gmgraves]

27 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Probably related, and appears to be made by DCCA audio. Can't beat a power cable that's big enough to swallow a power amp!

 

 

 

 

Just goes to show what's possible when certain people have more money than sense. Talk about overkill! Like bringing a 50 Caliber machine gun to kill a fly! But I'm not sure that DCCA makes the speaker cables we've been discussing. I tried top go to DCCA's speaker cable web page and it wouldn't load. But another site mentioned that DCCA's speaker cables start at $145, and I don't think It's the same thing. E-Bay was selling a pair of DCCA speaker cables 12 ft long for $550 (auction now closed) but I couldn't lift the picture. Anyway, they aren't as big as the ones in the photo we've been looking at by a long shot!

[gmgraves]

3 hours ago, elcorso said:

At least Rattle Snake warns you with the sound when you are going to be attacked. Here the most common and poisonous is the Terciopelo (Velvet ) Snake (Fer-de-lance) and has no rattle to warn you.

 

Well I startled this fellow by stepping on him and he just struck. He rattled after the fact to let me know that he was ready to do it again!

 

3 hours ago, elcorso said:

Many years ago the father of a friend who collected snakes to take them to a large institute here, who prepares antiophidic serum and exports to the whole world, parked his car, where locked with a key he carried a large sack full of living snakes for the institute. Some thief opened his car and took the sack. Just imagine the thief when he opened it ...!

 

I am very careful when I walk in our thick bush and jungle !

I hear you there. I think if I lived somewhere where there were a number of very poisonous snakes, that I would wear those old fashioned leather boots that laced-up to just below the knee to go walking in the woods/jungle. Where I grew-up, Northern Virginia, USA, there were only two poisonous snakes: the rattler and the copperhead (sometimes called a cottonmouth or a water moccasin). While both can be deadly, neither is very aggressive and both are reclusive. I spent most of my childhood in the woods and only saw the one rattler (the one that bit me) and one water moccasin (I was in a boat fishing in the James river and I saw the snake slither into the water from the nearest bank and swim off out of sight). Further south there is the coral snake, one of the world's most deadly. Lucky for us humans, coral snakes have such tiny mouths that the only way they could get you is if you were barefoot and the snake could get hold of your small toe!

[gmgraves]

54 minutes ago, Rexp said:

As somone once said- audio is not life and death, it is more important than that..

Anyone who thinks like that is in need of professional help.

[gmgraves]

3 minutes ago, vmartell22 said:

 

HAHA

 

Before  clicking for zooming I thought that was a constrictor... or a log..  - yeah, well... 

 

v

 

I suspect it would be more valuable as a constrictor, or a log than it would be a speaker cable. I'll still like to know what it costs and at least it doesn't seem to have have filter components in it like MIT's $10,000+ speaker "cables" do!

[gmgraves]

2 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Maybe it's not DCCA, but I really like this offer on the DCCA power cord page:

 

 

Would really love to know how they do this with a power cord! All this time I've been using digital EQ when all I needed was just to swap power cords...

 

I have a friend who designs power supplies for a living. I sent him to some of the power cord sites, You know, Furutech, Pangea, Nordost, and several others, and I thought he was going to die laughing. Now, I've never tried one of these "boutique" power cords myself, and I can't imagine what one could possibly do that a standard IEC cable can't, and the physics of electricity says that these huge, expensive power cords cannot possibly have any affect whatsoever on the sound of the component to which they are connected. But again, I haven't tried them, so I cannot say for sure. All I can say is they shouldn't have any influence on sound. 

 

I guess the difference between me and a lot of audiophiles is that my training and experience tells me that a lot of these tweaks and fancy cables have no basis in electrical theory so therefore I'm skeptical, and my skepticism keeps me from putting out either the money or the time to try them. Maybe they do something, Maybe not. For instance I've heard what I thought were differences between interconnects only to have those differences disappear in a DBT. 

[gmgraves]

2 hours ago, beancounter said:

I once hosted a DIY club meeting.  I was putting the drivers in new speaker cabinets, with the crossovers mounted externally, and I finished shortly before folks were to arrive.  BUT - I REALLY screwed up and the crossover wires were about 8 inches to short to reach the drivers (I had neglected to re-measure after a change).  And of course, I had given my spools of good wire to somebody to use for a project.  What to do?  What  good is an audiophile club meeting without the main speakers?

 

Romex and wire nuts to the rescue.

 

Yep, I stripped some romex, used the 12ga solid core wires to span the gap inside the cabinets, did the quick and dirty connection with wire nuts and sealed up the cabs.  Everybody thought they were great.  One guy brought a bunch of exotic speaker cable$,  and did an impromptu cable shootout - all the while extolling the sonic virtues and sins of each, not knowing it went through plain old homely romex at the end of the line.

 

Ever since, I've joked about patenting audiophile wirenuts and making a fortune.

I had a buddy (now deceased) who wired his speakers permanently with 12 ga Romex. Ran the cables under the floor of his house. He always seemed very happy with it. I see no reason, ELECTRICALLY, why it wouldn't work satisfactorily. After all 50/60 Hz are audio frequencies!

 

 

[gmgraves]

7 minutes ago, mozes said:

A power cord does impact sound! But it doesn’t mean that expensive is better.

I just wish somebody could explain why and how, because it shouldn't, you know.