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Am i crazy or just deaf


beerandmusic
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Probably BOTH!

 

Before anyone agrees with me, i have to forewarn you that most people will look at you differently if you agree with me, so i don't suspect any takers....and even if you do agree, you would be ill-advised to admit to it due to shame....

 

Many times when I A/B speakers (and i do it A LOT, probably more than most), i usually like one aspect of one speaker better and another aspect of the other speaker better...that's the normal part.  But what is abnormal is that sometimes when i swap out speakers i do one at a time, and i listen to a mismatched pair, one of each speaker.....and several times I actually like the sound better that way...it usually sounds more dynamic and more full.  I understand this may not be "BALANCED" for whatever that may mean, but i am being honest that I have thought that many times, and it "kind of" makes sense because you are getting more dynamics due to  different crossovers and more drivers, so in my thinking it should sound more dynamic.

 

Today was no exception.  and I really like the sound of 2 different speakers played at the same time....one a large bookshelf (B&W 705) and the other a PSB imagine T2.

I usually would pair the 705s with a sub, but the PSB imagine T2 has remarkable bass despite it's small drivers.....I have always liked PSB speakers, usually showing lots of detail, but i guess I have used my B&Ws so long that i have grown accustomed to their signature....the PSBs just seem a tad too bright, even though they do have good dynamics and really good mid lows as well.....Anyway, the pairing of both sounds really REALLY good....more so than any other mismatched pair i have listened to.

 

Curious if anyone else has experienced similarly playing 2 different speakers....is this really "bad" for balance?  I am guessing the impedance is probably different too...whatever..it sounds really good.

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I have used two different speakers, on a number of occasions - for various logistical reasons, not to test if it "sounds OK" ... and it works: I have no special favourites with speakers, most do the job well enough; the state of the electronics dictates most of what I experience. Others listened to the system playing this way, and didn't pick anything out of skew ...

Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Over and out.

.

 

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31 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Google 'stacked Advents'

with stacked advents you have balance, where what is unique in the scenario i am suggesting you have two different speakers, so your suggestion is not really comparable, and btw, i have stacked advents (and others), played quad, multi-channel and many other speaker combinations as well.

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Can't say I recall using two different speakers and preferring it.  I have done this several times with unlikely pairings and some work surprisingly well.  I did always run pink noise thru the pair and adjusted channel balance to get a solid mono image in the middle before listening to music. 

 

Using automatic room correction to a specified target curve, one can get really good matching.  I wouldn't say perfect or that it worked better, but it could be so good no one listening would notice anything remiss.  In my limited experience with this it seems to work better in long narrow rooms listening at distance than in wider rooms or listening closer.  My guess being the different directional characteristics are more noticeable when listening closer.  

 

As for getting better dynamics I don't follow you.  It doesn't make sense you would get better dynamics.  It would depend upon the pairing.  

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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18 hours ago, esldude said:

Can't say I recall using two different speakers and preferring it.  I have done this several times with unlikely pairings and some work surprisingly well.  I did always run pink noise thru the pair and adjusted channel balance to get a solid mono image in the middle before listening to music. 

 

Using automatic room correction to a specified target curve, one can get really good matching.  I wouldn't say perfect or that it worked better, but it could be so good no one listening would notice anything remiss.  In my limited experience with this it seems to work better in long narrow rooms listening at distance than in wider rooms or listening closer.  My guess being the different directional characteristics are more noticeable when listening closer.  

 

As for getting better dynamics I don't follow you.  It doesn't make sense you would get better dynamics.  It would depend upon the pairing.  

 

i don't get too technical to find the sweetspot...i usually just play a couple of my well known tracks, and position my folding chair where if i close my eyes and point to the where the lyrics are coming from it is right in the middle of the two speakers....works for me (grin).

 

Inre getting better dynamics, my thinking, (which may be incorrect?),  is that having different crossovers, different drivers, you would get more dynamics in the sense of more different frequency responses...thus a more dynamic and full sound.....whether this is correct thinking or not, i don't kow, but the pairing clearly is MUCH more dynamic than either pair by itself.

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Once again, knock yourself out with this.  But, some of your speculations about what you think you are hearing are just off the wall subjective notions that exist in your imagination and nowhere else, because there is no way you are making comparisons with sufficient controls, level matching, blind or double blind, etc. to be meaningful.  

 

You are definitely incorrect in thinking you are able to get better dynamics with A+B than you can get with A+A or B+B.  I do not think you can conclusively prove that you are, except in your biased and fertile imagination.

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17 minutes ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Once again, knock yourself out with this.  But, some of your speculations about what you think you are hearing are just off the wall subjective notions that exist in your imagination and nowhere else, because there is no way you are making comparisons with sufficient controls, level matching, blind or double blind, etc. to be meaningful.  

 

You are definitely incorrect in thinking you are able to get better dynamics with A+B than you can get with A+A or B+B.  I do not think you can conclusively prove that you are, except in your biased and fertile imagination.

 

you are so wrong here.... unless my understanding of dynamics is wrong.

 

What would you call it where you hear a lot more frequencies at different levels...(more highs, more lows, more mids, and at different and fuller levels) .if that is not dynamics, then whatever it is, that is what i get a LOT more of with A+B....it is clear as day, and not by any imagination or any bias. 

 

If i just have a, i don't have the lows that the towers have, and if i just have b, i don't get the B&W vocals....but with a+b, i get the lows of the towers and the vocals of the B&Ws....and its a lot more involved than just more lows from the towers and better vocals with the B&W....each speaker has it's strenghts at different frequencies....it is not hard to hear the differneces....very EASY!

 

I have no bias, as clearly I don't want to have 2 diffeent speakers in my system, although i am now thinking of running both pairs (AA & BB) for good...if i had any bias whatsoever, i would clearly prefer one speaker over the other, but that is not the case.

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18 minutes ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Hmm, yes.  Well, for the umpteenth time, knock yourself out with your great audio breakthrough here.  And, happy new year.

 

I never suggested it was a breakthrough...i have been doing this for years....i just happenned to like this pairing more than previous ones....it won't knock my socks off either...i rarely ever wear socks in san diego....

 

Happy new years to you too (wink)

 

As I always say...."CHEERS"...don't need a holiday for that.

 

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On December 30, 2017 at 3:25 PM, beerandmusic said:

Probably BOTH!

 

Before anyone agrees with me, i have to forewarn you that most people will look at you differently if you agree with me, so i don't suspect any takers....and even if you do agree, you would be ill-advised to admit to it due to shame....

 

Many times when I A/B speakers (and i do it A LOT, probably more than most), i usually like one aspect of one speaker better and another aspect of the other speaker better...that's the normal part.  But what is abnormal is that sometimes when i swap out speakers i do one at a time, and i listen to a mismatched pair, one of each speaker.....and several times I actually like the sound better that way...it usually sounds more dynamic and more full.  I understand this may not be "BALANCED" for whatever that may mean, but i am being honest that I have thought that many times, and it "kind of" makes sense because you are getting more dynamics due to  different crossovers and more drivers, so in my thinking it should sound more dynamic.

 

Today was no exception.  and I really like the sound of 2 different speakers played at the same time....one a large bookshelf (B&W 705) and the other a PSB imagine T2.

I usually would pair the 705s with a sub, but the PSB imagine T2 has remarkable bass despite it's small drivers.....I have always liked PSB speakers, usually showing lots of detail, but i guess I have used my B&Ws so long that i have grown accustomed to their signature....the PSBs just seem a tad too bright, even though they do have good dynamics and really good mid lows as well.....Anyway, the pairing of both sounds really REALLY good....more so than any other mismatched pair i have listened to.

 

Curious if anyone else has experienced similarly playing 2 different speakers....is this really "bad" for balance?  I am guessing the impedance is probably different too...whatever..it sounds really good.

 

I've never done what you are talking about, but I have stacked different pairs of speakers and run them coincidently (I should add that i did so with separate amps, in order to equalize the difference in sensitivity between the two disparate brands and models). I have often found that doing it this way can have a synergistic result whereby the two disparate speaker types complement one another. For quite a while, in the 1970's I ran a pair of Dynaco A50s with a pair of the Radio Shack Minimus Sevens (a small metal cabinet-ed two-way speaker system that was highly regarded at the time) and I thought the combination sounded very good. I powered the A50's with a HK Citation 12 and the Minimus sevens with a Marantz 9 tubed power amp. I broke the system up when I started dabbling with Quadraphonic sound and needed a pair of rear speakers and an amp to drive them (the Minimus Sevens/Marantz combo). Soon I upgraded the Dynaco A50's to a pair of Infinity RS7s and moved the A50's to the rear. I sold the Minimus Sevens to a buddy for about half what a paid for them and that was the end of that experiment!

George

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1 minute ago, gmgraves said:

 

I've never done what you are talking about, but I have stacked different pairs of speakers and run them coincidently (I should add that i did so with separate amps, in order to equalize the difference in sensitivity between the two disparate brands and models). I have often found that doing it this way can have a synergistic result whereby the two disparate speaker types complement one another. For quite a while, in the 1970's I ran a pair of Dynaco A50s with a pair of the Radio Shack Minimus Sevens (a small metal cabinet-ed two-way speaker system that was highly regarded at the time) and I thought the combination sounded very good. I powered the A50's with a HK Citation 12 and the Minimus sevens with a Marantz 9 tubed power amp. I broke the system up when I started dabbling with Quadraphonic sound and needed a pair of rear speakers and an amp to drive them (the Minimus Sevens/Marantz combo). Soon I upgraded the Dynaco A50's to a pair of Infinity RS7s and moved the A50's to the rear. I sold the Minimus Sevens to a busy for about half what a paid for them and that was the end of that experiment!

 

well, at least you know what i am talking about then (grin).

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Quote

Am i crazy or just deaf

 

Based on a number of your posts, I would put my money on the former. I wouldn't want to speculate about the latter. :)

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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On 30/12/2017 at 11:25 PM, beerandmusic said:

Probably BOTH!

 

Before anyone agrees with me, i have to forewarn you that most people will look at you differently if you agree with me, so i don't suspect any takers....and even if you do agree, you would be ill-advised to admit to it due to shame....

 

Many times when I A/B speakers (and i do it A LOT, probably more than most), i usually like one aspect of one speaker better and another aspect of the other speaker better...that's the normal part.  But what is abnormal is that sometimes when i swap out speakers i do one at a time, and i listen to a mismatched pair, one of each speaker.....and several times I actually like the sound better that way...it usually sounds more dynamic and more full.  I understand this may not be "BALANCED" for whatever that may mean, but i am being honest that I have thought that many times, and it "kind of" makes sense because you are getting more dynamics due to  different crossovers and more drivers, so in my thinking it should sound more dynamic.

 

Today was no exception.  and I really like the sound of 2 different speakers played at the same time....one a large bookshelf (B&W 705) and the other a PSB imagine T2.

I usually would pair the 705s with a sub, but the PSB imagine T2 has remarkable bass despite it's small drivers.....I have always liked PSB speakers, usually showing lots of detail, but i guess I have used my B&Ws so long that i have grown accustomed to their signature....the PSBs just seem a tad too bright, even though they do have good dynamics and really good mid lows as well.....Anyway, the pairing of both sounds really REALLY good....more so than any other mismatched pair i have listened to.

 

Curious if anyone else has experienced similarly playing 2 different speakers....is this really "bad" for balance?  I am guessing the impedance is probably different too...whatever..it sounds really good.

 

You should rephrase your last sentence to "it sounds really good to me".

Sound "tasting" a matter of personal preference.

 

Our opinion regarding sound quality depends on many different factors such as our sonic and music culture, our live and reproduced music references, our evaluation methodology, our expectations, the genres we listen to...

This is why I defend that unless people use an observationist approach to sound assessment, with adequate methodology and the right references, discussing audio is meaningless.

 

I'm sure that mixed-speaker setup sound very bad, even though you like it.

 

I owned the T2s for about a year.

They are quite neutral in a long-wall setup with the exception of the mid-treble which is a bit "sparkly".

I also found them to be a bit challenged in the dynamics department and the low- and sub-bass is not really that articulate, whether or not you use the plugs.

The supplied port plugs make it easy to adjust the low end to your room.

Very nice speakers, much better performers than your BnW 705s.

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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On 30/12/2017 at 11:52 PM, fas42 said:

I have used two different speakers, on a number of occasions - for various logistical reasons, not to test if it "sounds OK" ... and it works: I have no special favourites with speakers, most do the job well enough; the state of the electronics dictates most of what I experience. Others listened to the system playing this way, and didn't pick anything out of skew ...

 

Some people are not very demanding...

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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13 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

 

you are so wrong here.... unless my understanding of dynamics is wrong.

 

What would you call it where you hear a lot more frequencies at different levels...(more highs, more lows, more mids, and at different and fuller levels) .if that is not dynamics, then whatever it is, that is what i get a LOT more of with A+B....it is clear as day, and not by any imagination or any bias.

 

That is not Dynamics.

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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1 hour ago, semente said:

 

That is not Dynamics.

 

So i did a little research to try to better understand what i was hearing, and from what i read and the differences i hear, is a combination of both dynamics and tonal balance, and of course this is "to me".... but i also believe if the response could be plotted, it would show what i am hearing, which would closely resemble a combination of the two different frequency response curves.

 

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2 hours ago, semente said:

I owned the T2s for about a year.

I also found them to be a bit challenged in the dynamics department and the low- and sub-bass is not really that articulate, whether or not you use the plugs.

 

i am surprised you moved to the LS3/6 then....

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I have a friend that does this thing with 2 sets of speakers; he claims it sounds better than either alone (one has better treble, the other better bass.) To me it sounds disjointed. But he is a cheap bastard, who thinks audiophiles are idiots; I think he’s just too lazy to find a proper set of speakers :)

Mac Mini (+Tidal +Roon) -> WiFi -> Lyngdorf TDAI1120 ->JM Reynaud Lucia (Tellurium Q Black v2)

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4 minutes ago, trappy said:

Surely dynamics is about differences in amplitude, not frequency?

which is why i said what i am hearing is a combination of dynamics and tonal balance...example, I will get more amplitude of lower frequencies with inclusion of the T2s.  There is probably better terminology to explain....

 

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6 minutes ago, trappy said:

I have a friend that does this thing with 2 sets of speakers; he claims it sounds better than either alone (one has better treble, the other better bass.) To me it sounds disjointed. But he is a cheap bastard, who thinks audiophiles are idiots; I think he’s just too lazy to find a proper set of speakers :)

 

Many people will suggest that multichannel sounds better than stereo too....I wouldn't necessarily reject their opinions....I am also thinking that I may go back to multi-channel....or at least being able to easily switch back and forth between multi-channel and direct.

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2 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

i am surprised you moved to the LS3/6 then....

 

The LS3/6s have a better (less coloured) tweeter and sound "freer" dynamic wise. They also produce a slight attenuation off-axis in presence region which I find beneficial in small rooms.

The T2s produce more low frequency extension and provide the possibility of tuning the bass to suit the room.

Both produce a very natural/neutral tonal balance.

 

The T3s might be interesting with the bigger mid and woofers but Barton needs to design a new tweeter (preferably a soft-domed one).

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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