Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

[atletico]

1 hour ago, Kelly said:

 

The Kii Control has an IR receiver on it. I use a cheap, generic $7 Apple remote with it. You can control volume (up and down buttons), mute off/on (play/pause button), and source (side to side) with it. You do have to leave the butt of Kii control exposed or at least direct line of site visible for this to work. 

 

 

2 hours ago, ds58 said:

 

Looks fantastic, and great job on the stand for the Kii Control...

 

But this raises a question -- if I understand how the Kii Control works, wouldn't it be more useful if the Kii Control were two components? I'm thinking one near your components and the speakers, and another (hopefully) wireless controller with the source switching and volume control? This would allow you to control volume at your listening position...

 

Bump

[atletico]

2 hours ago, ds58 said:

 

Looks fantastic, and great job on the stand for the Kii Control...

 

But this raises a question -- if I understand how the Kii Control works, wouldn't it be more useful if the Kii Control were two components? I'm thinking one near your components and the speakers, and another (hopefully) wireless controller with the source switching and volume control? This would allow you to control volume at your listening position...

 

Thanks ds58.

My homemade stainless steel stand has an angle of aprox. 17 degrees and  a rubber coating on top for the Kii Control to stay safe. The Apple remote works very well from my listening position. A touch on the Apple remote  will "wake up" the speakers from stand by and you can switch between the sources, adjust the volum and mute the volum ( you can set up the mute db grade in the settings in Kii Control)

[patagent]

On 8/20/2017 at 5:23 AM, atletico said:

 

The Aries Femto usb to Kii Control is still my main source  but the turntable / RIAA also sound as good as ever direct into the XLR  in each speaker. As long as all sources are controlled by the Kii Controll (digital preamp) this is no problem at all.  No reason not to include the turntable if you using the Kii Three's... In my system also the vinyl sounds very impressive and after I got my resonance problems from the Kii stands exposed to my floor and to the pickup solved, I have even played  more vinyl than I have done for a long time.

 

However the next upgrade could maybe be the Aries G2. I'm looking forward to demo this new streamer.

 

I'm intrigued by the Kii but worried that it might not handle vinyl well.  Does your phonostage have a XLR output?  Are you connecting to the Kii XLR directly from the phonostage?  

[atletico]

My phono stage has no XLR out, just rca. I use a 2 x 3 meter special made rca to XLR cable from phono stage, direct into each speaker. The XLR input on the speakers are controlled by the Kii Control (digital preamp) and all the manual switches / settings on the back of each speaker are bypassed by the settings in Kii Control. This works like a dream and I have full control on my four input sources.

You can even make a unik sound preset for each of this inputs if this is convenient.

[simonp]

Very nice to hear from others about the Kii’s. This is my experience and way I use it with the associated equipment.

 

For about a year, I have the Kii’s at my home. After a demo I became very interested in these active speakers. And after some reading (reviews) and listening here and there and trying for a few time a demo set (along with a Lumin streamer) there was no doubt anymore. What a service, having this demo material for some time! (Thanks gydotron)

 

I had a beautiful set, with 10 year old Kharma speakers. Time for something new because more and more the mids were not giving me the natural sound I like. What struck me during the demo was a beautiful wide and deep stereo image and focus. They sounded very natural with great live feeling. The size of the Kii also seemed to fit me very well with my listening room.

 

After waiting for more than half a year, they were finally in my room, when the first songs were played, my speakers stands were not ready yet. I first wanted to adjust them before they were sprayed.  The stands only sounded like a tune fork with the associated frequency, not the best. After filling with sand in the pipes and pouring concrete into the footplate, the Kii stood in a stable and quiet position.

 

The source was also improved, following the positive experiences on the C.A. Forum also bought a microrendu and connected to the Kii via a Singxer F1.

 

For a few weeks a Ultrarendu as a source, in combination with the iso regen and the Singxer. Power supply by an Uptone lps1. What strikes is the huge depth and focus with a high resolution and also a nice analog sound. What a difference with my previous setup I did not think this was possible. There is still room for improvement, because the lps1 feeds the urendu and the iso regen, with the fmc that I use there is an extra power supply needed. Now I use a battery pack to maintain isolation. But maybee it also brings some extra noise. With an extra lps1 I can feed the iso regen alone and connect the rest to the other lps1.

 

Off coarse the Kii’s have a lot benefit from there Active Wave Focusing, but it’s still very important to give well treated room acoustics. Short reflecting points should be prevented.

 

Conclusion about the Kii three together with the other equipment; amazingly and beautiful. More and more I listen to the complete songs you just get lost in the music. Strong points of the Kii; A detailed imaging  with a lot of depth, focus, a nice layer with a lot of sophistication, and a nice natural sound for voices.

[flatmap]

On 8/21/2017 at 8:10 AM, patagent said:

 

I'm intrigued by the Kii but worried that it might not handle vinyl well.  Does your phonostage have a XLR output?  Are you connecting to the Kii XLR directly from the phonostage?  

You will be interested in Michael Fremer's brief encounter with the Kii Threes at CES 2016.

 

He says, in part:  "What is more, the sound was insanely great from bottom (expected) to top (unexpected), playing either files from vinyl that I brought or playing vinyl "live" on the Kronos turntable."

[jaspal kallar]

3 hours ago, simonp said:

 

The source was also improved, following the positive experiences on the C.A. Forum also bought a microrendu and connected to the Kii via a Singxer F1.

 

Thanks for your review!

 

Two questions:

 

(1)  Just wondered,  The Singxer F1 is a USB-to-spdif converter.  So you go spdif into the Kii Controller?  

 

If so why not go straight USB in to the Kii Controller

 

i.e. Ultrarendu --> usb cable --> iOS regen --> usb cable -> Kii controller 

 

instead of:

 

i.e. Ultrarendu --> usb cable iOS regen --> usb cable -> Singxer F1 -> spdif cable --> Kii controller 

 

Or, did you mean the Singxer SU1 which is usb to AES converter instead of the Singxer F1  ?

 

 

(2)  Are your Kii Three's a standard or custom finish?  They look really nice.

 

 

 

[simonp]

9 hours ago, jaspal kallar said:

(1)  Just wondered,  The Singxer F1 is a USB-to-spdif converter.  So you go spdif into the Kii Controller?  

 

If so why not go straight USB in to the Kii Controller

 

i.e. Ultrarendu --> usb cable --> iOS regen --> usb cable -> Kii controller 

 

The chain is now Daphile Pc - Fmc - Ultrarendu - Iso Regen - Singxer F1 - Canare spdif/aes - wireworld aes gold - Kii

When I buyed the Kii the Control was not ready, so thats why I used the F1. The Singxer is a very good and I am now focused to  get the best out of the digital chain. When I have some money saved the Control is a nice addition. 

9 hours ago, jaspal kallar said:

2)  Are your Kii Three's a standard or custom finish?  They look really nice

Its frozen bronze (from BMW), a custom color. Kii has used that color before;

[jaspal kallar]

11 hours ago, simonp said:

The chain is now Daphile Pc - Fmc - Ultrarendu - Iso Regen - Singxer F1 - Canare spdif/aes - wireworld aes gold - Kii

When I buyed the Kii the Control was not ready, so thats why I used the F1. The Singxer is a very good and I am now focused to  get the best out of the digital chain. When I have some money saved the Control is a nice addition. 

Its frozen bronze (from BMW), a custom color. Kii has used that color before;

Ok, I see you use some kind of adapter from spdif to aes (i.e Canare spdif/aes)

 

Oh nice colour that Bronze.  

 

I listened to the Kii Thre's today at my dealer in Stockholm (Sweden).  

 

I'm not good at describing sounds but I was very impressed. Infact it beat (IMHO) systems costing at least twice or thrice as much at other dealers I've been to.  

 

The dealer used an Aurender N10 as the source playing Tidal. My current source is the SOtm sMS-200 using Roon Rock (Intel Nuc).  The dealers room was really large (compared to mine)  so I will need to get the Kii Three for a home trial before being sure that they fit my criteria.

 

(Edit: One criteria is to see how big the soundstage would be in my smallish room close to the back wall and in corners compared to at the dealer where the Kii Three's were well into the room and away from corners producing a big and deep soundstage. The dealer thought that the soundstage would be less in a smaller room)

However, the budget of the Kii Three's is more than I want to pay at the moment but I may just wait and save up.  Essentially I need a new dac and amp and perhaps speakers also, so the Kii Three seems like a nice solution where at least I don't have to worry about IC/speaker cables etc.. in the future

 

I think the hype is warranted but as always YMMV :-)

 

[input username here]

Found this new-ish thread and thought I'd put in my two cents; I've owned my THREEs for a little under a year.  

 

Firstly, I think firedog's review is an excellent one and one that very closely mirrors my own experience.  These are great speakers and, were I to chose three words with which to describe their sound "clarity, coherence, and balance" might be the exact three I'd chose.  

 

I also agree with firedog's "negatives" exactly: (1) while the bass goes insanely deep and has great impact, DSP still cannot completely defy physics and the THREEs' bass will not envelope you like you can get from big speakers using massive (10", 12" or more) bass drivers; (2) it is possible to get better sound if you are willing to spend much, much (much!) more.  I demo'ed the THREEs in the US importer's (GTT Audio Video) sound room and their "big" system of Audiopax electronics and huge YG speakers was just better in every way... but, for perspective, the Soulution CD player in that system cost $100k alone.   Also, while dynamics are terrific for "box" speakers, they still don't explode out at you, as is the case with some of the best horn-loaded speakers (though these have other problems of their own); I find the speed and "dynamism" of these very, very good--but not on par with the best I've ever experienced.

 

Still, in my own experience (which is all upon which I I have to go), when compared to anything remotely comparable in price, like firedog said, the THREEs are just an order of magnitude better.

 

A few other notes:

 

1. Perhaps the only disagreement I have with firedog is about the Kii CONTROL.  To my mind (from a usability standpoint), it's just not optional, it's a necessary component.  The 6 months or so before the CONTROL was released, where I had to suffer with the terrible controls and inaccessible I/Os on the back of the THREEs, was (comparatively) hell.  My advice is: don't buy the THREEs if you aren't also prepared to pony up for the CONTROL.

 

2. I don't get quite the great soundstage to which others have alluded.  But I listen in the extreme nearfield (the speakers on on my desktop--try finding any other legitimately full-range speaker with which you can do that!) with the speakers only about 3 feet from my head and 6 inches from the wall behind them.  Given this setup, the soundstanging is much better than expected, but I would not call it "vast."  Also, to my surprise, the soundstange has improved with each step up in my front-end (I'm now using a ultraRendu w/ LPS-1), so maybe the constrained soundstage is not all due to the speaker placement.  I have experimented with the boundary controls and, while they are great at managing bass bloat, I cannot say it has had a big impact on (perceived) soundstage.

 

3. I bought mine at the introductory price, which was over $1k more per speaker, which still leaves me a bit salted (aren't introductory prices supposed to be lower than the prices later on?!?).  I try to console myself by telling myself that even at $13.9k, the THREEs are still a great pair of speakers and a terrific audio bargain, which is true.  It still pisses me off to be out the price of a CONTROL, however.

 

4. I am using Kubala Sosna Emotion power cables, which certainly changed things for the better, though not nearly as much as changes to the front-end.

 

5. The THREEs have bluetooth built in, it's just not currently active (this will, allegedly, be selectable from the CONTROL).  I wish they would turn this on so so I could more easily connect them to my PC, which is just a convenience connection, the uR is my "serious" listening input.

 

6. More often than ideal, my DSP goes haywire and everything sounds like it's coming from under water--does this happen to anyone else?  (This only happens when they wake from sleep, not while music is playing.)  It's not too big a deal, I can just cycle the speakers from the CONTROL and everything is 100% fine on reboot but, still, it's annoying. 

 

7. I know Kal Rubinson lurks around here--also a great review, BTW.  But, Mr. Rubinson, I was wondering why you said that the THREEs couldn't be integrated into a surround system in that review.  It seems to me that they would be great for this--just feed them the AES outs of, say, a Trinnov Altitude32 or Datasat 20i and away you go, no?  I don't have much interest in surround, so I haven't given this much thought and might be missing something, but this seems like an application that the THREEs were built for.

 

Thanks for the great review firedog.

 

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Thanks for the comment.

 Note that I said:  "the Kiis aren't yet easy to integrate into a multichannel system: You can feed them individual analog signals, but not multichannel, high-resolution digital"  (Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/kii-audio-three-loudspeaker-page-2#gPT81EyblW80vK44.99).   That is because there are so few compatible sources which have 3 or more S/PDIF or AES outputs.   I would not choose either of the processors you mention because their high price reflects the inclusion of many features for which I have no use (e.g., anything video).  

 

Today's options might be a Merging HAPI but there's also WiSA and, eventually, Zman.

[Ralf11]

I enjoyed the comparison to horns -has anyone compared these to dipoles, either Quads, etc. or Maggies?

[atletico]

My impression "short"  summary:

 

-The Kii Control is a necessary component for getting the best result from these active speakers. My $10K preamp with a built-in full digital board,  connected analog  out directly to each speaker sounded very good. But my digital sources through the simple Kii Control sounded better !...My preamp will be sold. Also all the settings will be much easier with the Kii Control.

 

- Using better power cables with much better (Furutech) connectors also will have a positiv impact on the overall soundstage.

 

- My original Kii stands are nice but the top-plate with the gasket will have a full connection  to the speakers. This causes the speaker stand to vibrate and make unwanted resonnace to the floor.

Solution: Fill the stands with sand and I have also used four extra rubber dampers on the top-plates  to lift the speakers aprox. 2-3 mm over the gasket. This also have improved the low frequency  and made the overall sound more "airy" and  a more  3D soundstage.

 

The Kii Three speakers have now replaced my 3 times more expensive set up and I'm very impressed with the overall sound these speaker now present in my living room.

[firedog]

6 hours ago, input username here said:

 

5. The THREEs have bluetooth built in, it's just not currently active (this will, allegedly, be selectable from the CONTROL).  I wish they would turn this on so so I could more easily connect them to my PC, which is just a convenience connection, the uR is my "serious" listening input.

I was told by Kii that BT will be functional at the "end of the summer".

[Kelly]

Has anyone experimented with the digital inputs into the Kii Control? I am figuring to get an optimized USB source but am still somewhat unconvinced that USB offers any great advantage over a well executed SPDIF source (assuming the you don't care about DSD or over 192, which I don't.) The mRendu seems to be a popular choice here, can anyone comment on how  the Kii Control USB interface responds to the various USB tweaks?

 

Also, I noticed the Kii Control screen comes on with only USB port plugged into a computer and no KiiLink cable, so the Conrol must draw some power through the USB port, does anyone know the current draw requirement for the USB input?  Is it a full 500mA?

[input username here]

18 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Thanks for the comment.

 Note that I said:  "the Kiis aren't yet easy to integrate into a multichannel system: You can feed them individual analog signals, but not multichannel, high-resolution digital"  (Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/kii-audio-three-loudspeaker-page-2#gPT81EyblW80vK44.99).   That is because there are so few compatible sources which have 3 or more S/PDIF or AES outputs.   I would not choose either of the processors you mention because their high price reflects the inclusion of many features for which I have no use (e.g., anything video).  

 

Today's options might be a Merging HAPI but there's also WiSA and, eventually, Zman.

 

I see.  And we've had a short exchange on Zman on another CA thread and I think we are in full agreement on that point (we both want it!).  I thought WiSA was not yet enabled, but I was told by the US importer that WiSA is, in fact, "on" in the THREEs but the issue is that Kii's WiSA "hub" has not been built.  Perhaps there are other multi-channel WiSA sources out there that could take advantage of this input, I just don't know much about the technology (... except I don't think it's taken off in the way its backers had hoped).

 

14 hours ago, firedog said:

I was told by Kii that BT will be functional at the "end of the summer".

 

Well that's certainly good news.  I wonder how we're supped to select BT, since the CONTROL's input buttons labels are printed on (and don't include BT).  I guess if the Kii guys are clever enough to design the THREEs the're clever enough to resolve this UI issue however....

[Kal Rubinson]

17 minutes ago, input username here said:

Perhaps there are other multi-channel WiSA sources out there that could take advantage of this input, I just don't know much about the technology (... except I don't think it's taken off in the way its backers had hoped).

B&O and Sharp have implemented it, so far.  Too bad that it is not more common.

19 minutes ago, input username here said:

 I wonder how we're supped to select BT, since the CONTROL's input buttons labels are printed on (and don't include BT).

BT is a distraction since its primary attribute is convenience, not sound quality.

[firedog]

27 minutes ago, input username here said:

 

I see.  And we've had a short exchange on Zman on another CA thread and I think we are in full agreement on that point (we both want it!).  I thought WiSA was not yet enabled, but I was told by the US importer that WiSA is, in fact, "on" in the THREEs but the issue is that Kii's WiSA "hub" has not been built.  Perhaps there are other multi-channel WiSA sources out there that could take advantage of this input, I just don't know much about the technology (... except I don't think it's taken off in the way its backers had hoped).

 

 

Well that's certainly good news.  I wonder how we're supped to select BT, since the CONTROL's input buttons labels are printed on (and don't include BT).  I guess if the Kii guys are clever enough to design the THREEs the're clever enough to resolve this UI issue however....

You'd have to assume it will be in the menus. I'd also assume you could just leave it on, and then any phone, etc. could just pair with it.

[firedog]

9 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

BT is a distraction since its primary attribute is convenience, not sound quality.

 

Of course, but it will great for letting friends play music from their phones on the Kii and see their reactions.

[firedog]

2 hours ago, Kelly said:

Has anyone experimented with the digital inputs into the Kii Control? I am figuring to get an optimized USB source but am still somewhat unconvinced that USB offers any great advantage over a well executed SPDIF source (assuming the you don't care about DSD or over 192, which I don't.) The mRendu seems to be a popular choice here, can anyone comment on how  the Kii Control USB interface responds to the various USB tweaks?

 

Also, I noticed the Kii Control screen comes on with only USB port plugged into a computer and no KiiLink cable, so the Conrol must draw some power through the USB port, does anyone know the current draw requirement for the USB input?  Is it a full 500mA?

I'm using mine with the mR as the input. Works great, no issues. I haven't found USB enhancers to help, the KII is galvanically isolated.

[input username here]

2 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

BT is a distraction since its primary attribute is convenience, not sound quality.

 

Well, the Kii's are "lifestyle" products after all.  And I think that "convenience" is great, so long as it doesn't interfere with sound quality.  In my case, BT would be nice because it would cut down on my box/cable count for sources where sound quality is not the highest priority (mostly for my PC to watch Netflix).  BT would allow me to ditch (sell?) my Yellowtech PUC 2 and associated AES cables, even if there was some drop in sound quality (about which I don't much care for this source) which is how I go out of my PC now.  It wouldn't affect the CONTROL's USB input, which is how I listen to my uR, in any way--I think that's definitely a win-win and thus a "distraction" I can get behind.

 

1 hour ago, firedog said:

I'm using mine with the mR as the input. Works great, no issues. I haven't found USB enhancers to help, the KII is galvanically isolated.

 

I'm using mine with the uR (... it seems like firedog and my systems are almost identical, "great minds" thinking alike and all that), and I've also had zero problems.  The switch from the mR to the uR was certainly worthwhile (I find the uR more dynamic/immediate with better PRaT), so I don't think that the CONTROL completely obviates differences on the USB source end.  That said, I haven't tried any "tweaks," per se, so I am sorry that I cannot add anything helpful on that end.  

 

I'll be rolling through a few USB cables to see what impact they have (do to unexpectedly long product lead-times, I've been running a $10 Amazon printer cable much longer than intended... but, hey, what a great test: if the $$$ cables don't much improve on the Amazon, that will say something significant in and of itself, no?).  I couldn't get a Lightharmonic 10G to pass any data from any of my USB sources, so I sent that back.  I'm currently waiting for a Kubala Sosna Emotion USB, we'll see what happens when that arrives.

[Ralf11]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

 

Of course, but it will great for letting friends play music from their phones on the Kii and see their reactions.

 

 

similar anecdote - a friend and colleague of mine (who is not a high SQ guy AT ALL) was visiting a certain spot in the desert and the site manager let him hook his iPhone up to a 4 speaker setup of the big Maggies (with the big mono-block amps to drive them well in an old warehouse) - even my friend was impressed

[Brucemck2]

Kal, or anyone else using the Control ...

 

Is there a "trick" to getting the Control unit to change the bass and treble response of the speakers? I can get the Control unit to change the right/left master, but when I make changes to the response parameters there are no changes to the actual response (as confirmed using REW). Perhaps the speakers need to first have their rotary dials set to the default position? Some button sequence?

 

Thanks!

[Kal Rubinson]

Sorry. I cannot recall the button sequence and the speakers are gone but I do admit that it took several attempts before getting it right.  OTOH, I do know that it worked because (1) I often overdid the change to an easily audible degree before correcting it and (2) I measured it.

[firedog]

1 hour ago, Brucemck2 said:

Kal, or anyone else using the Control ...

 

Is there a "trick" to getting the Control unit to change the bass and treble response of the speakers? I can get the Control unit to change the right/left master, but when I make changes to the response parameters there are no changes to the actual response (as confirmed using REW). Perhaps the speakers need to first have their rotary dials set to the default position? Some button sequence?

 

Thanks!

 

If the control is connected and working, it should override any setting on the speaker.

First disconnect the control from the speakers and the speakers from the electricity and then hook them up again. Press the reset button on each one.

 

If you disconnect the control and run the speakers directly, and change the settings, does the reponse change?

If it does, then set the speakers at their default settings and try changing the response again using the control. It should work.

 

If not, contact Kii.