Schiit EITR

[nbpf]

20 minutes ago, Charente said:

@nbpf ..., from what I know the external adaptor is a simple AC step-down transformer with the main linear supply on board the EITR. I have it connected on the same strip as the DAC and AMP (on the balanced side of my mains transformer supply) with no untoward issues that I can detect.

Thanks Charente! Could you please post again a link to the balanced mains transformer that you use? I am sure that I already came across your original post but I cannot find it again. I have meanwhile done some more tests, this time involving only MC-3 and Eitr. The setup was

 

A. fitPC3 > Supra USB > MC-3                                      > Naim DC1 BNC-BNC > nDAC > SL cable > SN2 > NAC A5 > S-400

B.               > Supra USB > Eitr > Coax-BNC Canare > Naim DC1 BNC-BNC > 

 

with A and B running in parallel into inputs 7 and 8 of the Naim DAC. My impression is that A and B sound differently but I find it difficult to describe the differences. Perhaps A is more analytic, less warmer and organic than B. Perhaps the background in A is darker, perhaps in A there is slightly less energy/amplitude in the mid-range frequencies than in B. For the time being, I seem to slightly prefer B. I hope that I will be able to make more detailed comparisons in the next couple of days.

[Charente]

@nbpf ... the Balanced Power Supply I have is this one (only 230v AC input available) ... https://airlinktransformers.com/product/standard-balanced-power-supply-bps1502 . I only connect the EITR, DAC & AMP to the BPS ... everything else is 'outside'.

 

Interesting listening observations ... is your MC-3 with the standard supplied power supply ? I guess, if the differences are this marginal, it makes the EITR good value considering the price comparison.

[nbpf]

5 minutes ago, Charente said:

@nbpf ... the Balanced Power Supply I have is this one (only 230v AC input available) ... https://airlinktransformers.com/product/standard-balanced-power-supply-bps1502 . I only connect the EITR, DAC & AMP to the BPS ... everything else is 'outside'.

 

Interesting listening observations ... is your MC-3 with the standard supplied power supply ? I guess, if the differences are this marginal, it makes the EITR good value considering the price comparison.

Thanks, yes the MC-3 is directly connected to the same power strip to which the AC transformer of the Eitr is connected. No attempts at bypassing the MC-3 internal smps PSU. For the time being I am focusing on trying to sort out the  sonic differences between the two devices. Next step will be to compare the one I prefer to my current system. Price-wise the Eitr is certainly a great value. Best, nbpf 

[jaaptina]

Got the EITR in my system now. Between ultraRendu and Job INTegrated. The EITR sounds as transparent as the direct USB connection. That's what I hoped for. Singxer F1 didn't. So I'm happy EITR did the trick. 

[tz1963]

One more Eitr > Job Integrated user here. Very pleased with the result, even straight out of the PC.

[Lebouwsky]

An update from my Eitr experiences.

 

On my Windows 10 server I run hqplayer, upsampling flak to 24/192. Hqplayer was feeding a Sotm sms200 as a so called “device”. The Sotm was connected to a uptone regen, which was connected to the Eitr. The Eitr went in the dac. The server was powered by a cheap switching power supply. It is a very low footprint celeron j1900 based passive cooled computer. The sms200 and regen were fed by 2 Teradak 30w lineair power supplies. (Still with me?)

 

It is my goal to clean up power and simplify the chain. In order to do so I bought a Sotm sps500 power supply. It is rated at 50watt. 

 

At first I replaced both the server’s cheap power supply and the sms200’s Teradak powersupply by 1 Sotm sps500. It has a Y-shaped dc cable, so it is able to power them both at 12 volts. 

 

Later I removed the sms200, the regen and it’s Teradak power supply as well. This led me to this very simple chain: 

* Windows 10 hqplayer server

* Sotm sps500 power supply

* Eitr (by hqplayer recoignized as it’s new “device”)

 

The result is really good, way better then I expected. In fact it comes very close to the original (more expensive, more complex) set up. In some aspects it’s even better (more analog). Trade offs so far is soundstage and air. But there are more tweaks in the pipe line in order to clean up power, like a balanced power supply, better dc cable and better grounding.

 

I do believe simpifying and using quality components is better than expanding the chain with renderers, decrapifiers and more power supplies. And it feels good to remove parts instead of adding. Less is more.

 

Still credits to the Eitr, it has withstand so far.

[nbpf]

Short update: after a few days of testing, I have decided that I prefer the Eitr to the Mutec. Now the Mutec is out and I am testing the Eitr vs. my current system:

 

A. fitPC3 > Supra USB > M2Tech hiFace Evo          > Naim DC1 BNC-BNC > nDAC > SL cable > SN2 > NAC A5 > S-400
B.               > Supra USB > Eitr > Coax-BNC Canare > Naim DC1 BNC-BNC > 

 

The M2Tech is powered by a Teddy Pardo 9V/2A LPSU. Strangely enough, the differences between A and B are, if any, marginal. I am not sure how to interpret this outcome: when I originally introduced the Eitr and the MC-3 in my system (about one week ago) my impression was that they were both different from my current system. I can only meaningfully compare two devices at one time because I only have two Supra USB and two Naim DC1 cables.

[Lebouwsky]

9 minutes ago, nbpf said:

Short update: after a few days of testing, I have decided that I prefer the Eitr to the Mutec. Now the Mutec is out and I am testing the Eitr vs. my current system:

 

A. fitPC3 > Supra USB > M2Tech hiFace Evo          > Naim DC1 BNC-BNC > nDAC > SL cable > SN2 > NAC A5 > S-400
B.               > Supra USB > Eitr > Coax-BNC Canare > Naim DC1 BNC-BNC > 

 

The M2Tech is powered by a Teddy Pardo 9V/2A LPSU. Strangely enough, the differences between A and B are, if any, marginal. I am not sure how to interpret this outcome: when I originally introduced the Eitr and the MC-3 in my system (about one week ago) my impression was that they were both different from my current system. I can only meaningfully compare two devices at one time because I only have two Supra USB and two Naim DC1 cables.

Make sure the Eitr’s transformer is not plugged in the same A-C power strip or wall outlet as your dac/amp is. The supra coax gave me another boost too. 

 

[nbpf]

3 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

Make sure the Eitr’s transformer is not plugged in the same A-C power strip or wall outlet as your dac/amp is. The supra coax gave me another boost too. 

 

Hmm ... what is the problem with the transformer being plugged in the same power strip as dac and amp? This is the setup that @Charente is using, if I am not mistaken. I will certainly try the Supra cable, the Naim DAC has two RCA inputs, thanks!

[Lebouwsky]

19 hours ago, nbpf said:

Hmm ... what is the problem with the transformer being plugged in the same power strip as dac and amp? This is the setup that @Charente is using, if I am not mistaken. I will certainly try the Supra cable, the Naim DAC has two RCA inputs, thanks!

It is actually Charente who determined by critical listening that it’s best to keep the transformer out. I can’t explain you the reason why.

 

If you want to go for a top quality coax cable I can advise you the Neotech nevd2001 silver coax cable.

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/neotech-digital-balanced-cable-nevd-2001.html

 

As you’ll probably know the coax including termination needs to be exactly 75ohm in order to transfer the data correctly. Unfortunately only BNC is the only plug capable of meeting this spec, because of it’s geometry. Canare offers rca plugs that come really close to this spec. Terminate the Neotech  with these rca plugs and you’ll have a real good cable for relatively low costs.

http://www.hifisupply.nl/index.php?action=article&aid=1210&group_id=20000031&lang=nl&devicew=1

[nbpf]

15 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

It is actually Charente who determined by critical listening that it’s best to keep the transformer out. I can’t explain you the reason why.

 

If you want to go for a top quality coax cable I can advise you the Neotech nevd2001 silver coax cable.

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/neotech-digital-balanced-cable-nevd-2001.html

 

As you’ll probably know the coax including termination needs to be exactly 75ohm in order to transfer the data correctly. Unfortunately only BNC is the only plug capable of meeting this spec, because of it’s geometry. Canare offers rca plugs that come really close to this spec. Terminate the Neotech  with these rca plugs and you’ll have a real good cable for relatively low costs.

http://www.hifisupply.nl/index.php?action=article&aid=1210&group_id=20000031&lang=nl&devicew=1

Strange ... in the last post on page 24 he says that he has the transformer connected to the same power strip than dac and amp. Anyway, I'll check it out. Thanks for the advice on coax cables! At the moment I am using a Supra Trico RCA-RCA and a Naim DC-1 BNC-BNC. I connect the latter to the Eitr via a Canare adapter.  

[Charente]

In my setup I have a Balanced Power Supply ... when I did some swap-out tests some months ago, I found the SMPS's (and the MacMini) affected the SQ, so I kept them outside the BPS and plugged the DAC & AMP into a strip off the BPS. I also tested the EITR transformer on both sides of the BPS and found it to be better away from the SMPS's as well , so CURRENTLY it is sharing the same strip as the DAC & AMP. It does sound very good in this arrangement, but I think ideally it should be separated and the only way I can achieve this with my electricity supply wiring in the room is to get another (small) BPS just for the EITR transformer to isolate it from everything else. This perhaps sounds OTT, but I think worth a try and I'll report back on whether it makes any difference. My experience with the BPS resulted in worthwhile gains and if nothing else, it can't do any harm, I would think.

[Charente]

@Lebouwsky ... thank-you for the update ... useful pointers. I really must think about getting rid of the iFi iPower which is currently energising the Uptone LPS-1.

 

 

[One and a half]

53 minutes ago, Charente said:

In my setup I have a Balanced Power Supply ... when I did some swap-out tests some months ago, I found the SMPS's (and the MacMini) affected the SQ, so I kept them outside the BPS and plugged the DAC & AMP into a strip off the BPS. I also tested the EITR transformer on both sides of the BPS and found it to be better away from the SMPS's as well , so CURRENTLY it is sharing the same strip as the DAC & AMP. It does sound very good in this arrangement, but I think ideally it should be separated and the only way I can achieve this with my electricity supply wiring in the room is to get another (small) BPS just for the EITR transformer to isolate it from everything else. This perhaps sounds OTT, but I think worth a try and I'll report back on whether it makes any difference. My experience with the BPS resulted in worthwhile gains and if nothing else, it can't do any harm, I would think.

Unless wholesale mods are performed on the Mac mini and other high leakage impedance noise sources, it is an optimum solution to leave them alone and isolate their effects somehow. 

 

Adding a second BPS was thought to be a bad idea since the 2nd BPS due to inherent differences in output voltages would cause more problems with the signals downstream.

 

One way around the problem of two BPS is to connect the centre points of each transformer to earth/ground. The point here is that it keeps the reference at the same potential between the two systems and any assymetric voltages are dealt with by the respective transformer noise cancellation.

A GFCI is still required for the 2nd BPS and the connections that run with that. 

How to join the two earth grounds is to open the connection covers and find a secured exit for a 4 or 6mm single green yellow wire and connect the two transformer centre points. This is simple inside a panel but using cables and connectors is doable but needs some DIY skills.

[Charente]

9 minutes ago, One and a half said:

.....

Adding a second BPS was thought to be a bad idea since the 2nd BPS due to inherent differences in output voltages would cause more problems with the signals downstream.

 

One way around the problem of two BPS is to connect the centre points of each transformer to earth/ground.....

 

 

Ah, OK...thank-you for the words of caution and the fix suggestion ... although I fear any mods to the BPS are well beyond my competence levels . Might be useful for other members tho'. 

 

 

[nbpf]

7 hours ago, Charente said:

In my setup I have a Balanced Power Supply ... when I did some swap-out tests some months ago, I found the SMPS's (and the MacMini) affected the SQ, so I kept them outside the BPS and plugged the DAC & AMP into a strip off the BPS. I also tested the EITR transformer on both sides of the BPS and found it to be better away from the SMPS's as well , so CURRENTLY it is sharing the same strip as the DAC & AMP. It does sound very good in this arrangement, but I think ideally it should be separated and the only way I can achieve this with my electricity supply wiring in the room is to get another (small) BPS just for the EITR transformer to isolate it from everything else. This perhaps sounds OTT, but I think worth a try and I'll report back on whether it makes any difference. My experience with the BPS resulted in worthwhile gains and if nothing else, it can't do any harm, I would think.

Thanks for the clarification! I am considering getting a BPS and I was wandering whether the BPS1502EU that you mentioned in a previous post would be a good match for my system. Airlink offers a number of transformers with VA values ranging from 1500 to 3000. Did you pick up the BPS1502EU on the basis of some system load estimate? My amp is a Naim Supernait2, I guess the other loads (Eitr, DAC and Teddy Pardo PSU for my server/renderer) are more or less negligible in comparison with the load of the amp. Thanks, nppf 

[One and a half]

6 hours ago, Charente said:

 

Ah, OK...thank-you for the words of caution and the fix suggestion ... although I fear any mods to the BPS are well beyond my competence levels . Might be useful for other members tho'. 

 

 

That can be a measurement project for this year ?

[Charente]

@nbpf ... There is a formula for calculating VA requirements for a BPS, although I can't remember what it is now ... perhaps someone more knowledgable could chip in ? I figured that the 1500 VA model would be more than sufficient, even if I added a Saga pre-amp and Vidar power amp to my setup for 2-channel at some point ... not for a while yet, I imagine, ... quite enjoying the headphone setup at present.

 

BTW (as an aside), I can highly recommend MrSpeakers Aeon Open Flow that I treated myself to recently. 

[nbpf]

2 minutes ago, Charente said:

@nbpf ... There is a formula for calculating VA requirements for a BPS, although I can't remember what it is now ... perhaps someone more knowledgable could chip in ? I figured that the 1500 VA model would be more than sufficient, even if I added a Saga pre-amp and Vidar power amp to my setup for 2-channel at some point ... not for a while yet, I imagine, ... quite enjoying the headphone setup at present.

 

BTW (as an aside), I can highly recommend MrSpeakers Aeon Open Flow that I treated myself to recently. 

If 1500 VA is enough for the Vidar it should be more than enough for the SN2. Thanks again, also for the headphone suggestion!

[nbpf]

I seem to remember that I already came across this question but ... is it normal that the Eitr generates occasional pops, say once every album? 

[rayl1234]

53 minutes ago, nbpf said:

I seem to remember that I already came across this question but ... is it normal that the Eitr generates occasional pops, say once every album? 

I do not have this problem. This type of issue was what I added the eitr to solve. The chord drivers have soft clicks when using windows mixer, but fortunately not in wasapi, so I go direct for wasapi and through eitr for system. 

[nbpf]

8 hours ago, rayl1234 said:

I do not have this problem. This type of issue was what I added the eitr to solve. The chord drivers have soft clicks when using windows mixer, but fortunately not in wasapi, so I go direct for wasapi and through eitr for system. 

Thanks, I should probably have added that the Eitr is connected to a machine running a Debian Linux distribution. Thus, I have not installed any specific drivers.

[Charente]

10 hours ago, nbpf said:

I seem to remember that I already came across this question but ... is it normal that the Eitr generates occasional pops, say once every album? 

 

I wonder if this is the same symptom as Mike Moffat described ... I posted about it on Page 5 ...

 

 

[Charente]

I came across this new device, the iFi Audio AC iPurifier Active mains filter ...

 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/hi-fi-power-supply/ifi-audio-ac-ipurifier-active-mains-filter-with-phase-and-ground-detection-p-12526.html

 

I wonder if this really helps ... or hinders ?

 

[nbpf]

25 minutes ago, Charente said:

 

I wonder if this is the same symptom as Mike Moffat described ... I posted about it on Page 5 ...

 

 

Thanks Charente, I think that's it. It sounds like a short interruption. For the time being, however, I cannot see any correlation between these events and events in the environment like those described in the Moffat quote. 

 

On another track: I am still trying to understand why the Eitr is now almost indistinguishable (and sounds perhaps a little bit worse) than my trusted M2Tech hiFace Evo. Three weeks ago, when I first put the Eitr in my system, I had the impression that it sounded distinctly better or, at least, different than the M2Tech. Is your Eitr on 7/24? Have you noticed any variation of the Eitr's sound quality in time?