Schiit EITR

[nbpf]

2 hours ago, Charente said:

Thank-you all for clarifying. 

On a side track: I see from your signature that you have a (microRendu + LPS-1) between the MacMini and the Eitr. Have you found this setup to be significantly better than a direct connection between the MacMini and the Eitr? Please, accept my apologies if this question has already been answered!

[Charente]

@nbpf ... my reason for having the mR in the chain is mainly because the MacMini and NAS sit some way from from the audio equipment. I did some SQ tests with and without the mR and there was a worthwhile improvement (to me) via mR versus a direct USB connection to the EITR, particularly in regard to the quality of the soundstage depth. That may also be due to the fact that the signal is sent across Ethernet rather than USB. 

[nbpf]

19 minutes ago, Charente said:

@nbpf ... my reason for having the mR in the chain is mainly because the MacMini and NAS sit some way from from the audio equipment. I did some SQ tests with and without the mR and there was a worthwhile improvement (to me) via mR versus a direct USB connection to the EITR, particularly in regard to the quality of the soundstage depth. That may also be due to the fact that the signal is sent across Ethernet rather than USB. 

Thanks Charente!

[Lebouwsky]

1 hour ago, nbpf said:

On a side track: I see from your signature that you have a (microRendu + LPS-1) between the MacMini and the Eitr. Have you found this setup to be significantly better than a direct connection between the MacMini and the Eitr? Please, accept my apologies if this question has already been answered!

I have done this comparison quite intensively with a sms200 in and out the chain. To me in my system there’s no question about it; with the sms200 the sound is much better.

 

From there I experimented with adding an uptone regen in the chain and again the sound improved.

[Charente]

@nbpf ... The xRendu and SoTM units do provide a low-power, audio optimised, clean output alternative to a regular consumer grade PC/MAC USB connection ... so, IMO, it's not really surprising that there should be a resulting benefit. Granted, that with a quality power supply (like an UpTone LPS-1) it does get pricey, although there are reasonably priced used mR's appearing now as people upgrade to uR or SMS200 Ultra.

[nbpf]

4 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

I have done this comparison quite intensively with a sms200 in and out the chain. To me in my system there’s no question about it; with the sms200 the sound is much better.

 

From there I experimented with adding an uptone regen in the chain and again the sound improved.

Thanks Lebouwsky! This suggests that the Eitr is still quite sensitive to its feed, as one would expect. The rationale behind my question was that I have been using a direct connection (between a fitPC3 and a M2Tech hiFace Evo) for a few years and I am now considering alternatives to improve this setup. For the time being, the plan is to start replacing the M2Tech with a Mutec MC-3+ USB or perhaps with the new Sonore ultraDigital (I need a BNC output) and then proceed (backwards) from there.

[Charente]

@nbpf ... I did flirt with the idea of a Mutec, before I got the EITR ... I heard some negative debate about it's power supply at the time (my knowledge may be out of date) and some people were resorting to making internal mods to improve things .. apart from voiding warranty, that's well beyond my competence levels  ! It is possible that Schiit will bring out a big brother to the EITR with more output options (incl BNC) but I suspect (speculate) that will be a few months down the road ... it may incorporate the new USB firmware design that Mike Moffat is working on. Other than that, as you suggest, it will be interesting to see how the ultraDigital fares.

[nbpf]

4 minutes ago, Charente said:

@nbpf ... The xRendu and SoTM units do provide a low-power, audio optimised, clean output alternative to a regular consumer grade PC/MAC USB connection ... so, IMO, it's not really surprising that there should be a resulting benefit. Granted, that with a quality power supply (like an UpTone LPS-1) it does get pricey, although there are reasonably priced used mR's appearing now as people upgrade to uR or SMS200 Ultra.

Agree. The rationale behind my question was that I have been using a direct connection (between a fitPC3 and a M2Tech hiFace Evo) for a few years and I am now considering alternatives to improve this setup. The fitPC3 runs both a UPnP server and a UPnP renderer and is connected to the LAN through its wireless interface. In this setup, adding a network player between the fitPC3 and the USB interface would imply configuring the fitPC3 to act as an access point. This is not a problem but would add some complexity to the system that I would prefer to avoid. As a first step, I plan to replace the M2Tech with a more recent USB interface. This is the reason why I am interested in the Eitr and even more - because of its BNC connector - in the new ultraDigital. The Mutec MC-3+ USB is of course another interesting alternative. I am open to invest about 1 to 2k EUR and some time to improve my current setup. But I would like to keep the UPnP server and the UPnP renderer on the same device and the chain between such device and the DAC as short as possible. I have been considering replacing the fitPC3 with a sMS-200ultra (which, apparently, can also run MinimServer and thus would not need any UPnP server upstream) but I am not sure that I can run Debian on the device and I do not want to be at the mercy of a proprietary, hardly supported operating system.   

[nbpf]

16 minutes ago, Charente said:

@nbpf ... I did flirt with the idea of a Mutec, before I got the EITR ... I heard some negative debate about it's power supply at the time (my knowledge may be out of date) and some people were resorting to making internal mods to improve things .. apart from voiding warranty, that's well beyond my competence levels  ! It is possible that Schiit will bring out a big brother to the EITR with more output options (incl BNC) but I suspect (speculate) that will be a few months down the road ... it may incorporate the new USB firmware design that Mike Moffat is working on. Other than that, as you suggest, it will be interesting to see how the ultraDigital fares.

I have contacted Mutec some time ago and it is possible to get one of their devices modified. This would void the warranty and let a hole in the back of the device. The modified device would also not be protected against overvoltage. Thus, one would have to be careful not to exceed the max. 6.2VDC. A modified device also raises the question of what to use to power it and at which voltage. I am not interested in trying out too many options and I was planning to first get a plain Mutec and then think about possible modifications if this turns out to be significantly better than my current M2Tech + Teddy Pardo PSU. If the new ultraDigital receives a positive feedback, I will give it a try. If Schiit would come out with a modular, upgradeable device, that would be great news. 

[Charente]

@nbpf If I understand you correctly ... I'm not sure how advisable it would be to run your own Debian setup on ANY of these devices ... they use cut-down (optimised) versions of Linux to suit the hardware. Even if you could get it working, would it invalidate warranty and hardware support ?

 

I'm not sure how 'modular' or 'upgradeable' the bigger EITR might be ... maybe just the USB input as with their DACs.

[nbpf]

1 hour ago, Charente said:

@nbpf If I understand you correctly ... I'm not sure how advisable it would be to run your own Debian setup on ANY of these devices ... they use cut-down (optimised) versions of Linux to suit the hardware. Even if you could get it working, would it invalidate warranty and hardware support ?

...

I do not see in principle a warranty problem in trying to install a Linux distribution on an ultraRendu or on a sMS-200ultra. I understand that these devices boot from the microSD card. If they do not boot with a new image, one can always put back the original image. But I am not very interested in a device that is only certified for an OS that is basically undocumented. Thus, this is a rather academic question. 

[nbpf]

1 hour ago, Charente said:

@nbpf

I'm not sure how 'modular' or 'upgradeable' the bigger EITR might be ... maybe just the USB input as with their DACs.

We will see. I would very much welcome if manufacturers would start moving away from the current short-lived, hysterical development cycle and begin offering solutions that are truly modular and upgradeable. There is no obvious reason why one should not be able to order a device like the sMS-200ultra with SPDIF output instead of USB output. Or to add an SPDIF output to it. Or why it shouldn't be possible to order a MC-3+ USB that accepts external power supplies. Manufacturers must eventually find the way of making more money with maintenance and customization instead of continuously throwing at the market new little boxes with more or less different variations of the same content. Schiit seems to be the only company that is moving in the right direction and has a more or less understandable roadmap. Perhaps I'll just wait with my upgrade and see what they come up with.

[nbpf]

12 hours ago, Charente said:

@nbpf ... It is possible that Schiit will bring out a big brother to the EITR with more output options (incl BNC) but I suspect (speculate) that will be a few months down the road ... it may incorporate the new USB firmware design that Mike Moffat is working on ...

Do you have any pointers to the new USB firmware design? I have checked the Schiit USA webpages and they even have a high resolution image of the Eitr board. Very nice! 

[Charente]

@nbpf ... the only titbit of information I read was on Mike Moffat's blog, where he said ...

 

Quote

Ivana for now is working on the translation of UAC2 audio (USB2) into a microprocessor. This will be a project of some duration. The reason for the moment is not to build a Gen V USB killer, but more for us to have a better low-cost solution. Most DACs which would glue to common USB solutions (XMOS, Cmedia, etc.) are I2S Sigma Delta types, which exhibit relatively high levels of sonic asstivity. Since we have a DSP processor in our entire upgardable line, we can configure much higher quality DACs, an ability which can be realized at the under $200 market when we have the USB running in our own micro. We will no longer be constrained by "audio" DACs.

 

[nbpf]

6 hours ago, Charente said:

@nbpf ... the only titbit of information I read was on Mike Moffat's blog, where he said ...

 

 

Thanks! I have to admit that I understand very little of the quote but if Schiit will come out with a device with multiple inputs and outputs, I would be very interested. The Mutec is nearly a perfect match but until they offer a version that accepts an external PSU, I am going to keep my money in my bank account. Best, nbpf   

[Charente]

In considering whether the new Sonore ultraDigital is a viable alternative to the EITR, Sonore have clarified that the ultraDigital is intended as an add-on for xRendu owners 'only'. So, reading between the lines, that implies (to me) that the uD does require a 'clean' USB signal for optimum SQ. 

 

It would be interesting to hear if any xRendu owners have compared EITR to ultraDigital.

[Speed Racer]

Just upgrade your Gumby to Gen 5 USB and feed it straight from the microRendu. Better yet, do the above but upgrade the microRendu to an ultraRendu. 

[Charente]

Indeed Scott ... that is the preferable 'clean' solution for upgradeable Schiit DACs, although some (including myself) will have other DACs, as with your Modi. BTW, how does the Modi sound with the EITR ... is it a significant improvement ? I was considering one to replace in my current transportable system together with a Magni 3.

[Speed Racer]

18 minutes ago, Charente said:

Indeed Scott ... that is the preferable 'clean' solution for upgradeable Schiit DACs, although some (including myself) will have other DACs, as with your Modi. BTW, how does the Modi sound with the EITR ... is it a significant improvement ? I was considering one to replace in my current transportable system together with a Magni 3.

 

Yes, Eitr makes a big difference with the Modi Multibit. Mimby's SPDIF RCA input is really quite good while the USB implementation is only fair. I really can't believe how phenomenal my nearfield setup sounds now with the new Vali 2, Mimby, and Eitr.

 

By the way, I think:

 

ultraRendu --> Yggdrasil (Gen 5 USB) 

 

Sounds better than:

 

ultraRendu --> Eitr --> Yggdrasil

 

There is no reason to believe the same won't be true with Gumby.

 

I LOVE how simple my chain is now!!!

[nbpf]

34 minutes ago, Charente said:

In considering whether the new Sonore ultraDigital is a viable alternative to the EITR, Sonore have clarified that the ultraDigital is intended as an add-on for xRendu owners 'only'. So, reading between the lines, that implies (to me) that the uD does require a 'clean' USB signal for optimum SQ. 

 

It would be interesting to hear if any xRendu owners have compared EITR to ultraDigital.

Agree, given the limitations of the ultraDigital, this seems to be the only meaningful way to compare it to other devices.  

[Charente]

13 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Yes, Eitr makes a big difference with the Modi Multibit. Mimby's SPDIF RCA input is really quite good while the USB implementation is only fair. I really can't believe how phenomenal my nearfield setup sounds now with the new Vali 2, Mimby, and Eitr.

 

By the way, I think:

 

ultraRendu --> Yggdrasil (Gen 5 USB) 

 

Sounds better than:

 

ultraRendu --> Eitr --> Yggdrasil

 

There is no reason to believe the same won't be true with Gumby.

 

I LOVE how simple my chain is now!!!

 

Thank-you for your thoughts ... yes, the GMB Gen5 upgrade is on my to-do list but getting new headphones won first ! 

[Mshenay]

On 12/1/2017 at 2:23 AM, Speed Racer said:

 

Yes, Eitr makes a big difference with the Modi Multibit. Mimby's SPDIF RCA input is really quite good while the USB implementation is only fair. I really can't believe how phenomenal my nearfield setup sounds now with the new Vali 2, Mimby, and Eitr.

 

By the way, I think:

 

ultraRendu --> Yggdrasil (Gen 5 USB) 

 

Sounds better than:

 

ultraRendu --> Eitr --> Yggdrasil

 

There is no reason to believe the same won't be true with Gumby.

 

I LOVE how simple my chain is now!!!

 

Howdy guys, just joining the chat and community here, also that makes a lot of sense that you'd get a better sound with less gear in between.  The ultraRendu seems pretty cool! With the addition of a Linear PSU it must be a nice step up from ONLY using the Etir which to be frank has a rather lack luster PSU, I'd imagine cutting it out and having the Gen 5 USB board running right from an interface with a cleaner PSU would lead to improvements! I was considering just getting a Yggy with Gen what ever second hand to save some cash [since I have an etir] but maybe it would be worth while ti save up for the ultraRendu and a New Gen 5 Yggy! Thanks for your feed back

 

Still for those of us not quite ready to upgrade to a System with the ultraRendu integrated, I'm very impressed with the Etir all by it self! 

[Charente]

@Mshenay .. Welcome !  Most of us here would agree that EITR is an impressive unit, especially at the price.

 

The outboard PS is simply an AC step-down transformer feeding 6VAC into the EITR, inside which is the linear power circuitry ... I'm unsure why you feel it is lack-lustre. I imagine the on-board Gen5 has similar circuitry ... I'm not sure ... maybe someone could clarify. 

 

I have an original microRendu feeding the EITR and yes, it does make a worthwhile difference IME ... whether it's worth $875 for an ultraRendu + LPS, I haven't tried but @Speed Racer clearly suggests it does.

 

I suspect a s/hand Yggdrasil might be difficult to find ... that seems to be a rare event ! If a new one is a stretch, perhaps also consider a new Gungnir MultiBit (also with Gen5) ... it's pretty close to a Yggdrasil, maybe a bit less resolving ... but very satisfying nonetheless.

 

I also found significant overall improvement with a Balanced Power Supply, feeding mains to the EITR, DAC & AMP (only) and isolating from any other units (especially SMPS's) ... something else to consider !

 

What DAC are you currently using with the EITR ?

[Speed Racer]

There is nothing wrong with the Eitr PSU. 

[jaaptina]

I was in doubt between upgrading microRendu to ultraRendu or adding EITR. Since EITR is sold out and I could sell microRendu for a reasonable price I have upgraded to ultraRendu. Very happy with the boost in sound quality. More than I thought possible.

Might give EITR a try when it's on sale again. Just to be able to use coax input.