Article: The Music In Me: Rap of History Backwards The

[Ralf11]

15 hours ago, DRB100 said:

Th music or the lyrics?   You know, some of are listening to the music, and not the lyrics.   

Dirty?  Well, that's YOUR opinion.  And what do YOU recommend?    Let's see where your musical tastes are.     I know some of the really early stuff was pretty nasty, but I don't listen to those recordings.  The more popular blues stuff didn't have vastly language.  it might have had some metaphors, but any adult would take that with a grain of salt.   But the foul language rap is just disgusting crap far worse than the blues I've listened to. But I also focused mostly on the playing, not the lyrics.  I would rather listen to the guitarist play a great solo and great swing/feel to the rhythm.

But it sounds like you just don't know what to listen for.  You haven't displayed anything other than putting things down with not much substance behind it.  So I don't know where you're coming from.

 

 

chill the personal attacks drubbie

 

for you, I recommend punk and funk

 

to loosen you up

[DRB100]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

chill the personal attacks drubbie

 

for you, I recommend punk and funk

 

to loosen you up

oh, OK Mr. Heckler.   

[DRB100]

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Sal - It's probably for a much larger discussion, but the activity you mention pales in comparison to the fact that one guy from the financial industry went to prison after the last meltdown. 

 

Anyway, the Britney concert was entertainment and I was entertained. I was also entertained when seeing Eric Clapton play Royal Albert Hall from the front row. He sang and played every lick of course.

 

I was less entertained watching Metallica play Woodstock '94 while the sound cut out and I was soaking wet. 

I thought the whole discussion was music, not whether we attended a concert and were "entertained".  going to a concert has both audio and visual elements.  listening to an album is only audio and some concerts being ridiculously loud, tend to end up being more visual since our hearing is damaged.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, DRB100 said:

I thought the whole discussion was music, not whether we attended a concert and were "entertained".  going to a concert has both audio and visual elements.  listening to an album is only audio and some concerts being ridiculously loud, tend to end up being more visual since our hearing is damaged.

 

You kids get off my lawn.

[jabbr]

On 7/11/2017 at 5:33 PM, DRB100 said:

That's where the music industry has failed.  They have brainwashed people like yourself to hold entertainers higher than a musician.  That's immaturity.  It's not about shaking one's ass on stage as musical.  It's just selling sex to perverts.  Because she's essentially selling sex which is why you liked the show.  She's made up to look attractive by her clothing, make up and her seductive dancing.  But imagine if she was butt ugly, had clothing that was not sudictive and she just stood there and they had no dance production?  Trust me, you wouldn't have liked it and you would have walked.   Selling sex with a dance oriented show isn't exactly music of high quality as there is little to no musicianship involved.  That's why the RIAA to me is garbage.  It's not about the music, it's about the show.   F that. That's bullshit.  

 

Is this a new rap song? Dude with all these words you are writing, if you've got delivery there's a new sub-genre ...

For your own sanity, take the other (chill) pill ...

 

[jabbr]

Really brief music theory concerning rap:

 

European music => melody focused

African music => (complex) rhythm focused

 

Jazz => blend of melody & complex rhythm 

Rock => simplify rhythm

Rap => simplify or eliminate melody -- it's all about the rhythm of the words

 

Instruments = 2 turntables & microphone

[Ralf11]

there is an story I heard that when Africans first heard Europeon classical music they thought it was too simplistic and boring

[LarryMagoo]

If you cannot Hum it ...it's not music...The only test I need...Rap's not music!  Plain and simple!

[ShawnC]

28 minutes ago, LarryMagoo said:

If you cannot Hum it ...it's not music...The only test I need...Rap's not music!  Plain and simple!

That sucks, there goes my metal music.  I have a hard time humming Slayer albums.

[jabbr]

43 minutes ago, LarryMagoo said:

If you cannot Hum it ...it's not music...The only test I need...Rap's not music!  Plain and simple!

Schoenberg was similarly criticized

Listen to what you like

[jabbr]

17 minutes ago, ShawnC said:

That sucks, there goes my metal music.  I have a hard time humming Slayer albums.

On no! I think you'd be far more likely to get a hummer while listening to Slayer than say Donny Osmond  

[jabbr]

Consider rap like a drum solo:

Or alternatively notice how the song starts with rap & drum intro: 

Google "call & response"

[jabbr]

The above link is dead^

This example isn't sampled. The "call" is melodic, and the "response" is rap/percussion:

 

By what definition of "music" isn't this music?

[DRB100]

23 minutes ago, jabbr said:

The above link is dead^

This example isn't sampled. The "call" is melodic, and the "response" is rap/percussion:

 

By what definition of "music" isn't this music?

The real question is, is it any good.   The problem with rap, is that it's rhythmical but it's not melodic.   The singer is singing, which is more "musical" since it combines melody and rhythm.  As far as the background music.  I can't tell if it's a sample of an actual performance or whether it's programmed or a combination of the two.  My gut tells me that part of it is actually performed, but part of it is programmed, or a loop of another performance. To me, this pushes the actual recording more towards a production based recording rather than a performance based recording.

 

What's the difference?  In performance based recording, they don't try to hide anything.  It's all based on a performance of musicians on musical instruments.  I prefer that, especially if it's well performed, recorded.   With production based recordings, they tend to hide the inadequacies of the musicians, or the lack fo musicians because they don't want to have to pay musicians.   To me, that's getting away from what music is supposed to be all about.   Production based recordings tend to be more sterile sounding since a programmed music track lacks the dynamics, and expression of the musician since it's hard to program a musicians' FEEL and EXPRESSION and Spontaneity. 

 

Example.  Take 10 drummers and put them all on the exact same drum set, give them a written score and each of them will play it differently based on each drummers' FEEL, EXPRESSION, INTERPRETATION of the written score.  How do you program the FEEL and EXPRESSION and INTERPRETATION of a drummer?    

If one knows the playing style of a particular drummer, they can tell who the drummer is by listening to the performance. With computerized drum tracks, you can't tell who programmed it as it's generic and it lacks that human feel/approach to a performance.

Some of us prefer the performance based recordings and it just appears that the younger generation is growing up with computers and they want the instant gratification of using a computer or taking someone else's ample and creating a loop vs actually learning how to play a musical instrument or hiring an actual musician to perform it rather than a computer user programming it.

 

As far as this song, to me, the target audience is younger audience with an age group between 15 and 25.  Not much depth to the song, it's a little fad based for my taste and the rap detracts from the melody of the song and that's the problem with rapping.  There's typically no melody to it and many of us want to hear a freaking melody.

[jabbr]

14 minutes ago, DRB100 said:

As far as this song, to me, the target audience is younger audience with an age group between 15 and 25.  Not much depth to the song, it's a little fad based for my taste and the rap detracts from the melody of the song and that's the problem with rapping.  There's typically no melody to it and many of us want to hear a freaking melody.

 

You may not prefer Schoenberg nor Bartok either... that's okay  

 

14 minutes ago, DRB100 said:

Take 10 drummers and put them all on the exact same drum set, give them a written score and each of them will play it differently based on each drummers' FEEL, EXPRESSION, INTERPRETATION of the written score.  How do you program the FEEL and EXPRESSION and INTERPRETATION of a drummer?    

If one knows the playing style of a particular drummer, they can tell who the drummer is by listening to the performance.

 

Replace "drummer" with "rapper" and realize that nor is the rap computer programmed  

 

In any case there is "post modern classical" music or so-called "new music" which itself stretches the boundaries of traditional classical music more than rap, although since this is often composed by conservatory professors, it more regarded by classical music enthusiasts.

[DRB100]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

You may not prefer Schoenberg nor Bartok either... that's okay  

 

 

Replace "drummer" with "rapper" and realize that nor is the rap computer programmed  

I'm sorry, but you aren't making much sense here.

 

First off Schoenberg and Bartok are composers that know how to play and since they actually studied music at a VERY deep level, they were creating music that at the time period was innovative and they had a lot of intelligence behind what they did.  Whether or not you like it is an acquired taste, I guess.  But they were highly trained musicians/composers.  Their music is more related to "ART" as it's definitely not created to be come commercial pop hit played on the radio by young adults between the ages of 15 and 25 that have very little musical training.  I'm just using the age group as the more likely demographic for listening to this song.  Example, I doubt you'll find too many classically trained musicians lining up to buy it, whereas, as musician that's studying classical music is more likely going to enjoy Shoenberg/Bartok as it's for a much more mature audience.

 

Replacing a drummer with a rapper?  NO. Two different things. They replace singers with rappers because the rapper doesn't want to sing, but they want to act like they are, but only talking/shouting in rhythm because they can't sing or they don't want to learn how to sing, because that requires them studying music theory and that's probably too difficult for them since they want to do as little as possible when it comes to "learning" and "studying" as that requires going to school or hiring a professional teacher and doing things the hard way.  They typically rebel against anything that has to do with "learning" and "studying".    If they did want to learn and study, then they would have studied music in school and become legitimate musicians.

 

Drums are an accompanying instrument that accompany melodic instruments and/or vocalists.  Rappers are trying to replace singers since they can't sing, or in the case rapping on a vocal oriented song.  At least the song has actual singing on it.  But when I hear songs that have both singing and rapping, I don't know what else to say other than the rap portion tends to degrade the intelligence behind the song and in many cases, it degrades the listening experience.  If you took out M&M rap portion, it would be a much better song, IMO and then it's just a matter of them using actual musicians rather than programmed, sampled nonsense.  

 

Drummers and rappers are generally not considered interchangeable since Drums are considered an accompanying musical instrument. 

 

But with production based music like this, they'll replace a drummer with a programmed drum track, because they can either use loops that are in circulation, or just have someone step write a basic drum beat on a computer in a matter of a few minutes because they aren't concerned about having a musician play it, because they just want a generic beat, OR they'll take a pre-existing recording, create a loop because it's much easier and cheaper to do that.  It's typically much cheaper to create programmed beats because anyone can do that and they don't have to pay for a recording studio, engineers, and it takes a long time to place the microphones, etc. etc. to get a good take, where as someone can create a drum loop on a laptop while they are sitting on the toilet taking a $hit.  /s

[DRB100]

2 hours ago, jabbr said:

The above link is dead^

This example isn't sampled. The "call" is melodic, and the "response" is rap/percussion:

 

By what definition of "music" isn't this music?

Percussion implies there are percussion instruments being played.  Rap is NOT an percussion instrument, it's rhythmic talking/shouting.    Percussion implies that you are striking something to produce a sound whether you are using your hands, a stick, mallet, etc.   So rappers ARE NOT percussionists.

 

Let me ask you a question.  Have you ever studied music to understand musical terminology or are you just making $hit up as you go?  You might want to study music, learn the terminology.   

 

 

It's a vocal style that's talking/shouting using rhythm, but generally no melody or harmony is being used.  Don't confuse percussion instruments with a rapper.  Now, there are vocalists that will do what is called Scatting where they try to mimic an instrument.  Singers like Al Jarreau would do that during portions of the songs they sung as their way of creating some interplay with the musicians.    It goes back to Classical Indian Music where they developed Konnakol, which is to "sing" the rhythms of the tabla.  When playing a tabla, there are different strokes with one's hand/fingers that produce a different sound and they created Konnakol to essentially vocalize the tabla part.  They would teach young kids starting around when they are 5 years old Konnakol first and then once they showed a certain level of proficiency, then the student would then study tabla or other percussion instruments if they wanted. Others might go on to learn another instrument either percussion or a melodic instrument, but they typically could sing Konnakol as that's how they learned what rhymic pattern they were going to use.  Think of it as their method of Beat Boxing, but the difference is they would actually incorporate melody.  Believe it or not, tablas are a tuned instrument to a specific pitch and the Bayan's pitch can be changed by applying pressure from one's palm on the head to raise and lower the pitch. VERY difficult instruments to master, and so is Konokol.  But they aren't talking, per se. they are vocalizing or singing the rhythm and they can incorporate melody as well.

 

But Rapping isn't a form of vocalizing the drum part.  Beat Boxing is, but rapping isn't. 

[DRB100]

5 minutes ago, DRB100 said:

Percussion implies there are percussion instruments being played.  Rap is NOT an percussion instrument, it's rhythmic talking/shouting.    Percussion implies that you are striking something to produce a sound whether you are using your hands, a stick, mallet, etc.   So rappers ARE NOT percussionists.

 

Let me ask you a question.  Have you ever studied music to understand musical terminology or are you just making $hit up as you go?  You might want to study music, learn the terminology.   

 

 

It's a vocal style that's talking/shouting using rhythm, but generally no melody or harmony is being used.  Don't confuse percussion instruments with a rapper.  Now, there are vocalists that will do what is called Scatting where they try to mimic an instrument.  Singers like Al Jarreau would do that during portions of the songs they sung as their way of creating some interplay with the musicians.    It goes back to Classical Indian Music where they developed Konnakol, which is to "sing" the rhythms of the tabla.  When playing a tabla, there are different strokes with one's hand/fingers that produce a different sound and they created Konnakol to essentially vocalize the tabla part.  They would teach young kids starting around when they are 5 years old Konnakol first and then once they showed a certain level of proficiency, then the student would then study tabla or other percussion instruments if they wanted. Others might go on to learn another instrument either percussion or a melodic instrument, but they typically could sing Konnakol as that's how they learned what rhymic pattern they were going to use.  Think of it as their method of Beat Boxing, but the difference is they would actually incorporate melody.  Believe it or not, tablas are a tuned instrument to a specific pitch and the Bayan's pitch can be changed by applying pressure from one's palm on the head to raise and lower the pitch. VERY difficult instruments to master, and so is Konnakol.  But they aren't talking, per se. they are vocalizing or singing the rhythm and they can incorporate melody as well.

 

But Rapping isn't a form of vocalizing the drum part.  Beat Boxing is, but rapping isn't. 

 

[prerich]

On 6/30/2017 at 8:48 AM, DRB100 said:

Actually, Gospel didn't have any blues influences originally as it was choir with an organ and a Tamborine, then Blues came along and it started other forms of music.  it created Jazz, it influenced country, R&B (rhythm and Blues), rock, Gospel (as they started to use rhythm sections).  Pop was originally jazz.  The big pop names back in the early days of recordings was some blues, but a lot of jazz singers were the pop artists. Now they just get kids that stylize themselves after their favorite singers and these kids growing up today couldn't sing a blues standard to save their life.  I saw the BBKing memorial and they had guys like Pharrell and he couldn't sing a BB King classic.  It's a shame that the current generation of kids have no clue as to the roots of "pop" music as it goes back to Blues.

 

All of the best guitarists know blues and have mastered it.   Eric Clapton, Carlos Santana, John McLaughlin, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, etc. all have mastered the blues and really understand it.  The latest gen guitar players barely know how to play Blues.  That's why a lot of metal has no "swing" to the rhythm and the guitar players are more technical and just abuse the whammy bar and they overuse distortion to the point where one can't tell what notes or chords they are playing.   Drummers tend to be more technical, mechanical and less musical than the drummers that were big in the 60's and 70's.  It's a shame how much the current generation simply lacks.

Songwriting these days has taken a downturn.  No one seems to write great melodies anymore. Everything now is so generic, computerized, overly produced, loops oriented. 

 

I almost fell off my chair when I ran into some kid that was way into RAP, and I started a discussion and I asked him what R&B stood for.  He said it stands for RAP AND BEATS.   At that point, I gave up all hope for this person.  Every time I run into someone that listens to Rap, I ask them to sing or hum the melody line.  At that point, their eyes glaze over and they are dumbfounded.  They don't know what the term "melody" even means.

It's been a while but I just saw this...you're backwards on your origin of Gospel....The father of Gospel music Thomas Dorsey was a blues and honkey-tonk musician -Precious Lord was originally rejected by the church for sounding "worldly". Now what some consider Gospel music is not gospel at all...it's a different classification called spirituals, freedom songs, and old Working songs (from slavery days).