Article: The Music In Me: Rap of History Backwards The

[DRB100]

11 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Are you really up in arms about swear words? 

 

#FirstWorldProblems

 

When foul language is being used in a racist, sexist manner, yeah, I do have a problem with that. I don't find it enhancing the music aspect all that much.   I hear and say enough swear words on my own without needing it in music. Music to me is my sanctuary to get away from the crap and stresses of the world, not to bring them in. That's why I listen to music.  I don't want to hear how some gang banger would have sex with whores, kill people, etc. etc. because a lot of these rappers WERE gang bangers and they are telling their stupid story trying to make a quick buck.  Enough.  I'm tired of it.  You hear one, that's more than enough.   I don't want THEIR environment infiltrating mine.  It's called polluting my space so where's MY freedom NOT to listen to it?  It's infiltrating into TV show and movies as background music. It's hard to get away from that.  It's played in cars at obscenely loud volumes.  Hard to get away from that. I just don't like it and I don't like being subjected to it.  My freedom to NOT listen to is being violated all of the time.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, DRB100 said:

I have to find credibility in the person before I look at what they've done to consider it art or having talent.  Musical talent?  NOPE.  They have to be a musician to prove that.   

I do admit that when I listen to the 2 live crew, I laugh uncontrollably because I think it's more comedy than it is music.  It's so stupid, it's entertaining in some ways, but I don't think of it as any serious music or them being musical.  Heck, they couldn't even make everything rhyme or have proper rhymes cadence, which makes stupid.  But there are kids that buy into it.

 

 

Interesting. I'm willing to bet you know not a single rapper personally, thus you can't find credibility in them. Public persona doesn't count because it's an act just like the Blues Brothers. 

 

2 Live Crew is entertainment. Glad you find it entertaining. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, DRB100 said:

When foul language is being used in a racist, sexist manner, yeah, I do have a problem with that. I don't find it enhancing the music aspect all that much.   I hear and say enough swear words on my own without needing it in music. Music to me is my sanctuary to get away from the crap and stresses of the world, not to bring them in. That's why I listen to music.  I don't want to hear how some gang banger would have sex with whores, kill people, etc. etc. because a lot of these rappers WERE gang bangers and they are telling their stupid story trying to make a quick buck.  Enough.  I'm tired of it.  You hear one, that's more than enough.   I don't want THEIR environment infiltrating mine.  It's called polluting my space so where's MY freedom NOT to listen to it?  It's infiltrating into TV show and movies as background music. It's hard to get away from that.  It's played in cars at obscenely loud volumes.  Hard to get away from that. I just don't like it and I don't like being subjected to it.  My freedom to NOT listen to is being violated all of the time.

 

 

I don't want to hear Kenny Rogers talk about gang rape (three Gatlin boys had their way with Becky), but I still consider it music, I don't make judgements about the singers or songwriters, and I don't really care that other people like it. I don't consider those who like that Kenny Rogers gangbanging to be idiots either. 

[DRB100]

10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I don't want to hear Kenny Rogers talk about gang rape (three Gatlin boys had their way with Becky), but I still consider it music, I don't make judgements about the singers or songwriters, and I don't really care that other people like it. I don't consider those who like that Kenny Rogers gangbanging to be idiots either. 

I don't really listen to Kenny Rogers and I'm unfamiliar with that song.

 

  Here's the thing.  There are basic essentials to call something music.  But it's a whole other concept to call it GREAT music or a GREAT performance.

 

You are confusing music with the lyrics.  Lyrics are the words sung or spoken, music is the melody, harmony, rhythm, arrangement, and things like that. So, did you like the song, but not the lyrics?  That happens quite a bit. 

 

There's lots of songs I've heard over the years where I wasn't a fan of the lyrics, but I liked the music or the singer's voice, but I didn't care for the lyrics.  

[DRB100]

36 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I don't want to hear Kenny Rogers talk about gang rape (three Gatlin boys had their way with Becky), but I still consider it music, I don't make judgements about the singers or songwriters, and I don't really care that other people like it. I don't consider those who like that Kenny Rogers gangbanging to be idiots either. 

 

I just read about that song. It appears to be a song about something not focused on gang banging and promoting that as proper behavior, but rather whether Becky's boyfriend would choose to run away from her because of what they did, OR rush to her aid and be by her side so she could get revenge.  Again, I have not heard the song, but I just did a read up on the song's premise, etc.  

 

I find anyone that rapes another to be disgusting.  I even find men that gang bang a woman that WANTS to be gang banged to be disgusting.   Yes, there are cases where women have wanted to set a world's record for the number of men they had sex with in a 24 hour period.  Disgusting.  Not my thing.

 

[DRB100]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Interesting. I'm willing to bet you know not a single rapper personally, thus you can't find credibility in them. Public persona doesn't count because it's an act just like the Blues Brothers. 

 

2 Live Crew is entertainment. Glad you find it entertaining. 

I haven't heard their entire catalog of 2 Live Crew, so I can only speak of what I've heard, but I don't classify it as great music. I classify it as more as vulgar comedy and a display of vulgar language than music. I just laughed because of how unbelievably stupid it was.   I was laughing at THEM more than anything and stupid the whole thing was and how stupid it was for the to conjure up stupid lyrics.  Heck, part of it didn't even rhyme or follow the proper rhythm.   Go listen to Doo Wah Diddy. 

 

It sounds like they threw it together on the cheap and for some stupid reason, people bought it because it got a lot of media attention for vulgar language.  

 

At least the Blues Brothers were trying to perform classic R&B songs with a certain amount of integrity but also put in a little humor for the movie/videos.   But at least they weren't trying to screw around with the lyrics and make fun of them.  It's a different thing.  At least everyone knew they were comedic actors first and they had a great back up band of famous musicians that were on some great R&B and blues albums.  Nothing wrong with what they did.

 

When Rapper's Delight first came out, I liked the original song because it was a well played song by Chic, but it was a dance song, and all they did was remove the vocals and replace it with their lyrics and called it a rap song. but their lyrics were kind of silly, and I never focused on their lyrics and would never buy it, but the music portion, which was Chic is fine.  To me, they just screwed up a perfectly decent dance song.

 

[DRB100]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Are you really up in arms about swear words? 

 

#FirstWorldProblems

 

Not in music.  Did I not explain myself clearly enough?  Please re-read what I said. Dang. do you have selective reading where you completely ignore every other word?  Do you have a wife or girlfriend that complains that you don't listen to her?  If so, then maybe you should pay closer attention, if not, then maybe that's a reason.

 

 With Rap, it's not just the foul language.  But it's mostly what I hear when watching a TV show on HBO or some cable channel, or a movie or blasting from some a-holes car or boom box in a public place.

 

They aren't singing because they can't, and the music they conjure up is either stolen (sampled from someone else's recordings) or some lame drum machine or sequenced crap that's annoying because they aren't musicians able to write and create great music.

 

 

[DRB100]

19 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

Thou whoeson lump of foul deformity, villain, I have done thy mother

What point are you trying to make?

[Ralf11]

2 hours ago, DRB100 said:

 

Do you mean Luminaries to rappers that put out foul language rap?  

 

I'm sorry but if you can rewrite that I'll try to answer.

[Ralf11]

22 minutes ago, DRB100 said:

What point are you trying to make?

 

read the post just above it for the main point

 

the secondary point is about sampling

[DRB100]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Are you really up in arms about swear words? 

 

#FirstWorldProblems

 

Go read about the psychology behind music.  There's recent studies on improvised jazz opening up parts of the brain.  Dr. Hawkins' research found that there are levels of consciousness or the "attitude" behind music and they rate some of them and it's interesting how rap rates as compared to jazz, classical and things like that.  he didn't rate things like Death Metal or Goth rock too high on the scale either.  He had a scale where O was essentially dead no brain activity  to 1000, which was fully conscious or fully enlightened.  It's interesting reading.  I pay close attention to how listening to a piece of music effects me and I'm quite sensitive to it because I pay attention to it. When you listen to a piece of music, do you want to feel angry, agitated?  Does what you listen to make you feel that way?  Some people have to get high or drunk before or while they are listening to music and that masks everything.

If I become angry listening to something, then I change it and turn on something else that I get a positive reaction.  Rap is largely negative, many forms of Metal is also largely negative, so I stay away as much as I can.  Punk, same thing.  After reading his findings and comparing to how I react to the same music, I find I do feel the same way and I felt that way prior to reading his research findings.   I try to stay at a certain level because I don't want to have a negative experience listening to music, regardless of who it is.  I also can't stand listening John Cage's stuff either.  Even though he's a trained musician, I find his music annoying and I think he tapped into how certain melodies can create an agitating effect on the listener.  That's how powerful musical notes are or noises are whether or not the person creating them intended it  or was even aware of it previous to the creation.

 

The other important aspect is the sub culture behind the music. Do I like the people that are associated with the music to want to socialize with them.  Do I want to hang out with gang bangers?  NOPE. Then I don't think listening to rap is a wise idea as that world attracts gang bangers.   Do I like what their sub culture stands for and is the sub culture positive for society?  I also look at things like that too.

[The Computer Audiophile]

To quote me favorite rock band, "it's nothing as it seems."

 

Often, those that present a perfect image in public are the exact opposite. Conversely, those that act tough are often not. Ask Marshall Mathers' neighbors about how great of a neighbor Eminem really is. This is true. 

 

The great Jazz improv guys were "all" on heroin. You better stop listening if you judge music by the personal lives of the musicians. 

[Ralf11]

may I suggest that the people who created rap were angry before they created it?

[DRB100]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

 

I'm sorry but if you can rewrite that I'll try to answer.

I'm just trying to figure out what your point is. why would you write it and what's your intention?

[DRB100]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

may I suggest that the people who created rap were angry before they created it?

Well, yeah, I think that's a given with a lot of it.  NWA?  DEFINITELY.   Just even in the title of their group.  Niggaz With an Attitude.    Word to the wise, DON'T ever play F the Police in your car.  If the police catch you playing it or with that attitude, I don't think they are going to appreciate that and they might create a scenario where you'll try to give them attitude and that's going to not end up good for you.  I'm sure that song or the attitude in that song has led to a lot scenarios where the police shot at or beat the crap out of someone they were dealing with.  When I hear someone playing that loud in their car, that's essentially telling the cops that you are a willing participant to get your head bashed in.  Cops don't like that song OR the attitude that it incites.   Just a caution.  :-)

 

Look at Jay Z's latest music, he's all pissed off at others and he's taking it out in his lyrics and he's trying to get media attention by pulling it from certain markets and then putting it back on because he gets a lot of media attention with it. And he's doing it to make a quick buck.  

 

I haven't heard every rap song, but the most obvious one's.  

 

Some of these rappers sound like they smoked a ton of weed and they sound like it.  Listen to the song they play with the show Ballers on HBO.  that guy sounds high as it gets. 

 

Yeah, a lot of the gangsta rap stuff, definitely, they are pissed off at the other gangs, and they do a lot of trash talking, etc. etc. etc. so yeah, a lot of anger in it. 

[DRB100]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

To quote me favorite rock band, "it's nothing as it seems."

 

Often, those that present a perfect image in public are the exact opposite. Conversely, those that act tough are often not. Ask Marshall Mathers' neighbors about how great of a neighbor Eminem really is. This is true. 

 

The great Jazz improv guys were "all" on heroin. You better stop listening if you judge music by the personal lives of the musicians. 

well, I make up my own idea of M&M.. He comes off to me as an idiot that was always causing problems in the classroom.  Ask his neighbors?  Maybe his neighbors are bunch of idiots just like him.  

 

No, not ALL of the jazz greats were on heroin during the entire careers. Many of them stopped and were only on it for a short period. So stop with our lies about their careers. You make it sound like they were shooting up during their entire career, which isn't true.   A lot musicians get hooked into drugs and alcohol because people want to party with musicians, musicians have crazy schedules so they have to be awake when they would rather be sleeping or they have to sleep when it's broad daylight and it's hard to get rest, so they resort to drugs and alcohol..  Yeah, it's a common tail.  But nowadays? What major jazz great shoots up heroin?  Herbie Hancock?  NO.  McCoy Tyner? NO.  Chick Corea?  NO.   McLaughlin?  NO.  Marsalis brothers? NO.  so give me a list of the current jazz greats shooting up heroin or doing massive amounts of drugs.  Please show me the list of current musicians that are into that stuff.  

 

I listen to Mahavishnu and McLaughlin wasn't into heroin during that time period. He was as clean as it gets. Drugs and alcohol weren't a major part of that band or subsequent bands Mclaughlin was part of.  Some goes with some of the other players.  Look at Jeff Beck, he plays his ass off, but he's not into drugs like some might think, he might even be better than he ever was.

 

Some of the jazz greats were into it for a relatively short period of time, but they didn't go around putting racist lyrics and hatred in lyrics of their songs.  They at least conducted themselves in a more professional manner where they weren't going half cocked with hate speech, racist speech, etc. 

Stevie Ray Vaughn got off of drinking many years before he died and he's one of the best contemporary blues guitarists to come out in a long time.

 

So a lot of them did kick the habit. And that should inspire others to kick the habit or not take up the habit in the first place.  They did drugs to experiment because back then, they were seeking enlightenment through drugs, which a lot musicians have done, but if they kick the habit and get into meditation and things like that, then they got rid of the habit.    

 

look at Justin Bieber, that kid smokes pot, drinks alcohol,got busted reckless driving without a license,  vandalism, got caught throwing eggs at a neighbors house and what people does he socialize with and hang around? RAPPERS..  So, you can see that he threw away his perfect opportunity to go to college because he had a lot of money and he threw away that opportunity because sex drugs and rapping is a high priority. And he's still an idiot, but just a bigger one.

 

So, again, stop spouting things that aren't necessarily true.  

 

Elvin Jones wasn't on heroin his entire career. Coltrane wasn't on heroin during his entire career either.  He was during part of it, but he wasn't for the entire period, plus those jazz greats didn't put the N word in their lyrics because they had no lyrics.

[DRB100]

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

I'm sorry but if you can rewrite that I'll try to answer.

That's what I'm asking what you meant by rappers being Luminaries.  It wasn't clear.  Are you trying to infer that that rappers are luminaries for OTHER rappers.to not use foul language vs Rappers that don't use foul language are Luminaries because they don't use foul language?

Are there others that aren't rappers, but are Luminaries? 

 

 

[Ralf11]

8 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

The  Luminaries are rappers (or hip-hop music makers) who don't seem to use foul language - not I particularly care for rap or their music all that much...

 

 

name of a group

[DRB100]

3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

name of a group

Oh,  I've never heard of them.   

[DRB100]

3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

name of a group

But are any of them able to play a musical instrument at a proficient level?  Can any of them sing proficiently?  

[DRB100]

Here's some research.  Here's a link to the top 50 Rap albums and some have the Parental Advisory label, which means foul language.  Go and count them up.  You'll see that more of these albums have the label than those that do not.

 

http://www.complex.com/music/2013/05/the-50-best-selling-rap-albums/fugees-the-score

 

That proves my point that foul language in Rap sells more than the non-foul language.

 

 

[watercourse]

Hmm, the least informed person on a subject still won't let go of the mic and allow others to share their thoughts.

Done here. @DRB100, you're the first person I'll be adding to my ignore list. Hate to do this, but you can't seem to stop digging yourself into the same hole which is bound to collapse on you.

Word to the wise: step out of your sheltered universe and listen to people. Listening allows you to integrate new information, which is the foundation of learning new things. Being able to continue learning gives you perspective that makes you an interesting conversationalist, and opens up the world to more possibilities not imaginable from the sheltered, limited perspective you now hold.

Good luck. It's a less threatening world out there once you take your blinders off, in fact, it's beautiful out here.

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

may I suggest that the people who created rap were angry before they created it?

Bingo. 

[Sal1950]

Let's put the angry rappers together with the folks at MQA so their fanbase can enjoy all the wonderful benefits. Then together with audiophiles they will then have all this intense "music" to listen to and revel in the glorious SQ. 

[jabbr]

On 7/9/2017 at 3:29 PM, LarryMagoo said:

Rap is still not music....

Early rap looks like they are having fun ... there are different kinds of music: These are the first 2 released rap songs:

One of the first released rap songs: